Driving Review
04-12-07, 08:32 PM
#76
Lexus Test Driver
I completely understand the desire to toss your car into corners and drive aggressively, but I'm glad Lexus designed the car for the rest of us.
Most of us don't drive our $44k cars like we stole them. I have my son with me about half the time I'm driving, and I'm pleased that the car is pretty smooth. I'm also pleased that it's fast, and handles pretty well for a stock luxury car. If Lexus had designed the car to your specs, it would probably alienate about 95% of potential buyers.
Let's not get down on the IS350 because it isn't everything to everyone. It's pretty darn close, judging by the demographics of this forum. I'd feel pretty silly driving with a client in the car and trying to explain why their fillings are being rattled out in my Lexus.
Most of us don't drive our $44k cars like we stole them. I have my son with me about half the time I'm driving, and I'm pleased that the car is pretty smooth. I'm also pleased that it's fast, and handles pretty well for a stock luxury car. If Lexus had designed the car to your specs, it would probably alienate about 95% of potential buyers.
Let's not get down on the IS350 because it isn't everything to everyone. It's pretty darn close, judging by the demographics of this forum. I'd feel pretty silly driving with a client in the car and trying to explain why their fillings are being rattled out in my Lexus.
04-12-07, 08:49 PM
#77
Tech Info Resource
Thread Starter
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You said, "So here I am, braking to enter the turn - the gearbox is downshifting at the wrong time, the brakes are jamming themselves on harder than I wanted, and I'm trying to focus on line and traction. But I can't. I'm forced to focus on what the electronics are doing to the car because it isn't reasonably predictable. I really hate the nannies, every last one of them!"
If you are open-minded and can set aside that big ego you seem to have, you will see that I was ONLY trying to help with the difficulties you were experiencing. I too have spent many years road/street racing motorcycles and know how important juggling all the aspects of going fast are and enjoying the ride with all the nannies on the IS.
Before anyone can comfortably drive the IS350 in a spirited manner, they must first practice managing the nannies, regardless of how much experience they have. I find that the VSC is best left off, when driving aggressively, do to it being too intrusive when you what the car to change directions abruptly. On spirited back road twisties I've never had the VSC kick in.
As far as unnecessary downshifting from braking, I don't have that problem because when I'm driving in the spirited mode I am already downshifting manually with the floor selector as I am braking. When I enter a turn I have the revs up and I'm in the throttle slightly. The revs are nice and high so if I have to shed a little more speed I simply let off the throttle to let the engine drag me down. This also keeps the trans from downshifting if I have to ease into the brake a little. The brake assist will not trigger if you ease into it. I find that this method works pretty well. It also helps if you know the road well so you do not have to disrupt your line by being in the wrong gear or having to tap the brakes.
Koz
If you are open-minded and can set aside that big ego you seem to have, you will see that I was ONLY trying to help with the difficulties you were experiencing. I too have spent many years road/street racing motorcycles and know how important juggling all the aspects of going fast are and enjoying the ride with all the nannies on the IS.
Before anyone can comfortably drive the IS350 in a spirited manner, they must first practice managing the nannies, regardless of how much experience they have. I find that the VSC is best left off, when driving aggressively, do to it being too intrusive when you what the car to change directions abruptly. On spirited back road twisties I've never had the VSC kick in.
As far as unnecessary downshifting from braking, I don't have that problem because when I'm driving in the spirited mode I am already downshifting manually with the floor selector as I am braking. When I enter a turn I have the revs up and I'm in the throttle slightly. The revs are nice and high so if I have to shed a little more speed I simply let off the throttle to let the engine drag me down. This also keeps the trans from downshifting if I have to ease into the brake a little. The brake assist will not trigger if you ease into it. I find that this method works pretty well. It also helps if you know the road well so you do not have to disrupt your line by being in the wrong gear or having to tap the brakes.
Koz
In my world, I should be focused on entirely on three things while driving - heading, course, and traction. The rest should flow as an extension of me. The IS does not once you go past 75 percent. It is sold as "intelligent sport." It should drive in a sport mode intelligently. Not constantly arguing with the driver and confounding his ability to control the car with unconventional responses.
Case in point - you say be smooth on the brakes. I said I have extensive experience with this task, and when I use the techniques I have learned they are less than effective. I don't want the car to force me to learn a workaround because the factory has determined the vast majority are incompetent and need a "do what I mean, not what I say" system. It should brake the same as any other performance car in the category does: predictably, consistently, and at the driver's command. IME, it does not.
04-12-07, 08:55 PM
#78
Because car enthusiasts don't buy Lexus cars.. they buy BMWs. :P
Okay I had to throw that in there, but perhaps.. Toyota doesn't think the enthusiast market for these cars is great enough to even consider releasing such things. Did other companies take these steps? I figured people would have to "hack" the ECU for any of those changes to occur. I don't know maybe the JDM market will surprise us and release such toys.
And our cars are still relatively new. I'm sure within a few years more toys will be available, especially with the IS-F release people will want to hype up their 350 as much as possible.
Okay I had to throw that in there, but perhaps.. Toyota doesn't think the enthusiast market for these cars is great enough to even consider releasing such things. Did other companies take these steps? I figured people would have to "hack" the ECU for any of those changes to occur. I don't know maybe the JDM market will surprise us and release such toys.
And our cars are still relatively new. I'm sure within a few years more toys will be available, especially with the IS-F release people will want to hype up their 350 as much as possible.
04-12-07, 08:58 PM
#79
Tech Info Resource
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
I completely understand the desire to toss your car into corners and drive aggressively, but I'm glad Lexus designed the car for the rest of us.
Most of us don't drive our $44k cars like we stole them. I have my son with me about half the time I'm driving, and I'm pleased that the car is pretty smooth. I'm also pleased that it's fast, and handles pretty well for a stock luxury car. If Lexus had designed the car to your specs, it would probably alienate about 95% of potential buyers.
Let's not get down on the IS350 because it isn't everything to everyone. It's pretty darn close, judging by the demographics of this forum. I'd feel pretty silly driving with a client in the car and trying to explain why their fillings are being rattled out in my Lexus.
Most of us don't drive our $44k cars like we stole them. I have my son with me about half the time I'm driving, and I'm pleased that the car is pretty smooth. I'm also pleased that it's fast, and handles pretty well for a stock luxury car. If Lexus had designed the car to your specs, it would probably alienate about 95% of potential buyers.
Let's not get down on the IS350 because it isn't everything to everyone. It's pretty darn close, judging by the demographics of this forum. I'd feel pretty silly driving with a client in the car and trying to explain why their fillings are being rattled out in my Lexus.
I did not expect the IS to "replace" the tC in all ways, but I did expect that a car with 306 hp and the marketing people saying "intelligent sport" would favor the sport end of things. Certainly not like my tC did, but better than my bone stock '88 Corsica. Sadly, at this point, I'm certain the Corsica's fun factor was greater than the IS's. Maybe I was just expecting too much.
04-13-07, 04:47 AM
#80
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No it's not. But it's just another one of those little anoyances that
adds to to overall driving experience. We are talking about all
the anoying nannies including brake assist and others.
Why couldn't Lexus make the
paddle shifters work the way they are supposed to. Everone is
impressed with them being there untill they realize they only give you
partial control over your gear selections. The nannies still change gears
on you even in S mode.
I like to dirve my own car thank you, and not have some nanny do it for me.
Give me a full sport mode. I sure hope the IS-F will fill the bill.
Otherwise, I'm passing this car on to the wife and I'll be back to riding
my bike year round again.
adds to to overall driving experience. We are talking about all
the anoying nannies including brake assist and others.
Why couldn't Lexus make the
paddle shifters work the way they are supposed to. Everone is
impressed with them being there untill they realize they only give you
partial control over your gear selections. The nannies still change gears
on you even in S mode.
I like to dirve my own car thank you, and not have some nanny do it for me.
Give me a full sport mode. I sure hope the IS-F will fill the bill.
Otherwise, I'm passing this car on to the wife and I'll be back to riding
my bike year round again.
04-13-07, 08:45 AM
#82
Pole Position
You haven't been on the roads in the Bay Area. I was embarassed at the jarring my clients were taking over mild concrete stutter bumps on I-680. I bought this car for the same reason you did - I needed a four door car to take clients around, and a Scion tC with Tein SS-Ps, Hotchkis sways, and 245s wasn't filling the bill. Too jarring and not enough doors. But extremely fun to drive for an inexpensive Toyota.
I did not expect the IS to "replace" the tC in all ways, but I did expect that a car with 306 hp and the marketing people saying "intelligent sport" would favor the sport end of things. Certainly not like my tC did, but better than my bone stock '88 Corsica. Sadly, at this point, I'm certain the Corsica's fun factor was greater than the IS's. Maybe I was just expecting too much.
I did not expect the IS to "replace" the tC in all ways, but I did expect that a car with 306 hp and the marketing people saying "intelligent sport" would favor the sport end of things. Certainly not like my tC did, but better than my bone stock '88 Corsica. Sadly, at this point, I'm certain the Corsica's fun factor was greater than the IS's. Maybe I was just expecting too much.
Were these clients children? Fill me in, I don't understand. Sounds like you should have bought a different car because the IS is definitely NOT the car for ******** clients.Also, if you truly believe that your bone stock 1988 Chevrolet Corsica was more fun to drive than your IS then you Definitely bought the wrong car. A G6 sedan or Hyundai Sonata should be more to your liking.
04-13-07, 08:45 AM
#83
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Don't get me wrong, I love my IS. I knew about some of these
quirks before I purchased and did research for 5 months. I would
still pick it over the other candidates that were considered for numerous
reasons. What irks me is that the car is so capable and could be so
much better with a few software changes.
quirks before I purchased and did research for 5 months. I would
still pick it over the other candidates that were considered for numerous
reasons. What irks me is that the car is so capable and could be so
much better with a few software changes.
04-13-07, 10:57 AM
#86
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You bought an IS to **** clients around in? Were these clients children? Fill me in, I don't understand. Sounds like you should have bought a different car because the IS is definitely NOT the car for ******** clients.
Also, if you truly believe that your bone stock 1988 Chevrolet Corsica was more fun to drive than your IS then you Definitely bought the wrong car. A G6 sedan or Hyundai Sonata should be more to your liking.
Were these clients children? Fill me in, I don't understand. Sounds like you should have bought a different car because the IS is definitely NOT the car for ******** clients.Also, if you truly believe that your bone stock 1988 Chevrolet Corsica was more fun to drive than your IS then you Definitely bought the wrong car. A G6 sedan or Hyundai Sonata should be more to your liking.
04-13-07, 11:16 AM
#87
Tech Info Resource
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
I'm really tired of the stupid comments about rear seat room. I got the car that fit my needs. I determined the car to be fine. Anyone else's opinion about the rear seats is meaningless to me. Drop the sarcastic comments, they're falling on deaf ears.
Bought the wrong car because my Corsica had a higher fun factor? Please. I am unhappy with a few details, not the entire car. I'm not bagging on the Corsica's acceleration which completely sucks compared to the IS. The IS is a perfectly competent drive 98% of the time I drive it. It is, however, a poor sporting platform. It is marketed as Intelligent Sport. They should have just called it a compact Lexus sedan with a stronger engine and smaller back seat than the GS series. I have no idea why they call it SPORT and castrate it. That's my point.
Again, I suspect I expected too much. I saw 335mm discs, 10" wide rear tires, paddle shifters, and 306 hp and thought they had something I would enjoy driving on public roads at a quick, but not life threatening, pace. It just isn't true.
Bought the wrong car because my Corsica had a higher fun factor? Please. I am unhappy with a few details, not the entire car. I'm not bagging on the Corsica's acceleration which completely sucks compared to the IS. The IS is a perfectly competent drive 98% of the time I drive it. It is, however, a poor sporting platform. It is marketed as Intelligent Sport. They should have just called it a compact Lexus sedan with a stronger engine and smaller back seat than the GS series. I have no idea why they call it SPORT and castrate it. That's my point.
Again, I suspect I expected too much. I saw 335mm discs, 10" wide rear tires, paddle shifters, and 306 hp and thought they had something I would enjoy driving on public roads at a quick, but not life threatening, pace. It just isn't true.
04-13-07, 11:31 AM
#88
I am on the fence, but if I had to put money on it, I'd say they will NOT... I don't think they will improve the paddle shifting (like AMG does for Mercedes)... I don't think they will full allow all nannies to be disabled (like M does for BMW)... In fact, I think it will be an IS500, not an IS-F... Meaning, an IS350 with bigger engine, brakes, and tires... Not worthy of a separate badge, like "F"... Make sense?
But hey, I'd love to be wrong on this one and be surprised when the IS-F arrives!
04-13-07, 02:03 PM
#89
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I've said it before so Ill keep it short.
I came from an Sti and S2000's and I have a great time in my IS350. I had a lot of track and autoX time in those cars. Some of the complaints you have made on items that I love in the IS350. When I take a hard corner on the street I take it like I’m at PIR. I LOVE the way that I hit the brakes hard before the turn and the tranny shift down perfectly (etcpwr) for me. I love it, it shift up high, I will keep the break down a little bit longer to stabilize the car (if I did have a complaint, it would actually by my IS350’s brakes), let off and then hit the gas for the corner. Since it shifted for me, Im already in a low gear with the RPM's up to power around the corner. I LOVE it. Specifically it allows me to keep both hands on the wheel in driving position instead of my right hand shifting that gear down manually. Is it as flawless as a manual no, but its the best damn auto tranny shift I have ever seen. Its prefect for the road which I am not being as aggressive on as at the track.
On handling, Ive almost made people throw up in the car coming back from lunch with the fellas. Large sweeping 360 degree freeway off ramps are awesome in the IS350. Really not all that different then my Sti, just a lot smoother.
Check out that Best motoring video done in Japan, hat guy drives it right, to bad hes in the rain.
I came from an Sti and S2000's and I have a great time in my IS350. I had a lot of track and autoX time in those cars. Some of the complaints you have made on items that I love in the IS350. When I take a hard corner on the street I take it like I’m at PIR. I LOVE the way that I hit the brakes hard before the turn and the tranny shift down perfectly (etcpwr) for me. I love it, it shift up high, I will keep the break down a little bit longer to stabilize the car (if I did have a complaint, it would actually by my IS350’s brakes), let off and then hit the gas for the corner. Since it shifted for me, Im already in a low gear with the RPM's up to power around the corner. I LOVE it. Specifically it allows me to keep both hands on the wheel in driving position instead of my right hand shifting that gear down manually. Is it as flawless as a manual no, but its the best damn auto tranny shift I have ever seen. Its prefect for the road which I am not being as aggressive on as at the track.
On handling, Ive almost made people throw up in the car coming back from lunch with the fellas. Large sweeping 360 degree freeway off ramps are awesome in the IS350. Really not all that different then my Sti, just a lot smoother.
Check out that Best motoring video done in Japan, hat guy drives it right, to bad hes in the rain.
04-13-07, 02:47 PM
#90
Do you really think the IS350 is even comparable to the S2000 in terms of handling? From what I remember (this was 4+ years ago) the S2000 was INCREDIBLE through the corners... I rarely needed to use the brake... Just shifted up and down with steady gas... S2000 was amazing... Almost drove it the way I raced my motorcycle! Steady 50-60MPH through the twisties...