Driving Review
04-13-07, 03:30 PM
#91
CL Folding Freak
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When I used to take my friend's S2000 into the mountains, no one could keep up, not even the lotus esprits...
Do you really think the IS350 is even comparable to the S2000 in terms of handling? From what I remember (this was 4+ years ago) the S2000 was INCREDIBLE through the corners... I rarely needed to use the brake... Just shifted up and down with steady gas... S2000 was amazing... Almost drove it the way I raced my motorcycle! Steady 50-60MPH through the twisties...
Do you really think the IS350 is even comparable to the S2000 in terms of handling? From what I remember (this was 4+ years ago) the S2000 was INCREDIBLE through the corners... I rarely needed to use the brake... Just shifted up and down with steady gas... S2000 was amazing... Almost drove it the way I raced my motorcycle! Steady 50-60MPH through the twisties...
04-13-07, 09:04 PM
#92
Pole Position
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What are your expectations for the IS-F? Do you think they will make it a true sport sedan?
I am on the fence, but if I had to put money on it, I'd say they will NOT... I don't think they will improve the paddle shifting (like AMG does for Mercedes)... I don't think they will full allow all nannies to be disabled (like M does for BMW)... In fact, I think it will be an IS500, not an IS-F... Meaning, an IS350 with bigger engine, brakes, and tires... Not worthy of a separate badge, like "F"... Make sense?
But hey, I'd love to be wrong on this one and be surprised when the IS-F arrives!
I am on the fence, but if I had to put money on it, I'd say they will NOT... I don't think they will improve the paddle shifting (like AMG does for Mercedes)... I don't think they will full allow all nannies to be disabled (like M does for BMW)... In fact, I think it will be an IS500, not an IS-F... Meaning, an IS350 with bigger engine, brakes, and tires... Not worthy of a separate badge, like "F"... Make sense?
But hey, I'd love to be wrong on this one and be surprised when the IS-F arrives!
04-14-07, 02:09 AM
#93
Tech Info Resource
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Keep in mind - BLIND crests and turns, so you can't set up for them at an unreasonable speed because you might have on coming traffic. Shrink the road to just barely two lanes without a center line. Now you're starting to get the picture. This is NOT my daily commute (I don't drive to work.) Even if I knew it extremely well, it is not prudent to attempt a full speed run down this road at anything more than 80 percent, and in some parts you need to leave even more room for the unexpected. Only rarely is there traffic, but when there is, you have to be able to slow sufficiently to pass at very close proximity without scaring the driver in the opposite direction. Regardless, it's the most fun road I've driven anywhere in a car that lets the driver drive.
If I could leave the car in third gear for the entire drive, it would be wonderful. But I can't. Even using the paddles, it will downshift to second if I have a short stretch near WOT. But I don't NEED or WANT that. Just nice smooth acceleration in third would be just fine.
I think Gernby is right. Snow mode. Because I don't need to be wringing out every last pony or spinning at a constant 6k rpm. I just need predictable power consistently. Or better still, leave the IS at home when I want to drive a technically challenging road. The Supra does FAR better.
04-14-07, 10:03 AM
#94
Lexus Test Driver
I agree. On/off ramps in the IS are wonderful. VDIM letting me drift all four wheels on an on/off ramp is wonderful. Put a blind opposite direction turn in the middle of the on ramp and follow it with another blind opposite direction turn and all that fun goes right out the window. Add a few elevation changes and extend this road to 6 miles and you have something like what I was driving when I found the car to be fighting me not aiding me.
Keep in mind - BLIND crests and turns, so you can't set up for them at an unreasonable speed because you might have on coming traffic. Shrink the road to just barely two lanes without a center line. Now you're starting to get the picture. This is NOT my daily commute (I don't drive to work.) Even if I knew it extremely well, it is not prudent to attempt a full speed run down this road at anything more than 80 percent, and in some parts you need to leave even more room for the unexpected. Only rarely is there traffic, but when there is, you have to be able to slow sufficiently to pass at very close proximity without scaring the driver in the opposite direction. Regardless, it's the most fun road I've driven anywhere in a car that lets the driver drive.
If I could leave the car in third gear for the entire drive, it would be wonderful. But I can't. Even using the paddles, it will downshift to second if I have a short stretch near WOT. But I don't NEED or WANT that. Just nice smooth acceleration in third would be just fine.
I think Gernby is right. Snow mode. Because I don't need to be wringing out every last pony or spinning at a constant 6k rpm. I just need predictable power consistently. Or better still, leave the IS at home when I want to drive a technically challenging road. The Supra does FAR better.
Keep in mind - BLIND crests and turns, so you can't set up for them at an unreasonable speed because you might have on coming traffic. Shrink the road to just barely two lanes without a center line. Now you're starting to get the picture. This is NOT my daily commute (I don't drive to work.) Even if I knew it extremely well, it is not prudent to attempt a full speed run down this road at anything more than 80 percent, and in some parts you need to leave even more room for the unexpected. Only rarely is there traffic, but when there is, you have to be able to slow sufficiently to pass at very close proximity without scaring the driver in the opposite direction. Regardless, it's the most fun road I've driven anywhere in a car that lets the driver drive.
If I could leave the car in third gear for the entire drive, it would be wonderful. But I can't. Even using the paddles, it will downshift to second if I have a short stretch near WOT. But I don't NEED or WANT that. Just nice smooth acceleration in third would be just fine.
I think Gernby is right. Snow mode. Because I don't need to be wringing out every last pony or spinning at a constant 6k rpm. I just need predictable power consistently. Or better still, leave the IS at home when I want to drive a technically challenging road. The Supra does FAR better.
04-14-07, 10:07 AM
#95
Tech Info Resource
Thread Starter
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Trust me, it is Nirvana for driving fun. It is all over the motorcycle sites. There are guys on bikes who run it back and forth until they run low on gas because it is such a roller coaster ride.
04-14-07, 02:10 PM
#96
Lead Lap
This repeats what I've stated.
"if the driver is entering a situation at a speed that is too fast for the tires to maintain traction upon slowing (while taking evasive maneuvers), they see an understeer situation. That is a fault of the driver, not the brake boost or car."
The point is, the IS has both brake assist and ABS. In a panic situation, the car will not provide more brake pressure than the ABS system will account for. Lexus as usual engineered the vehicle with safety in mind, and the driver knowing this, should take that into consideration with their driving habits. Enter a turn too fast while attempting to suddenly brake, and the car itself will behave as programmed. For some, its too intrusive or simply not sporty enough...but its no design flaw, just personal preference.
Good drivers know (and pro ones will tell you), that performance driving is risky-- at, or close to the limit earns the most reward. Quick reacting or even pro-active conservative drive systems provide the most safety. The question is which takes precedence, and what type of car strikes the greatest balance between the two. This of course is determined by design philosophy and personal opinion.
IMO, I'm not surprised at all by the IS350s performance. Great car, but most definitely not built with performance potential in mind.
"if the driver is entering a situation at a speed that is too fast for the tires to maintain traction upon slowing (while taking evasive maneuvers), they see an understeer situation. That is a fault of the driver, not the brake boost or car."
The point is, the IS has both brake assist and ABS. In a panic situation, the car will not provide more brake pressure than the ABS system will account for. Lexus as usual engineered the vehicle with safety in mind, and the driver knowing this, should take that into consideration with their driving habits. Enter a turn too fast while attempting to suddenly brake, and the car itself will behave as programmed. For some, its too intrusive or simply not sporty enough...but its no design flaw, just personal preference.
Good drivers know (and pro ones will tell you), that performance driving is risky-- at, or close to the limit earns the most reward. Quick reacting or even pro-active conservative drive systems provide the most safety. The question is which takes precedence, and what type of car strikes the greatest balance between the two. This of course is determined by design philosophy and personal opinion.
IMO, I'm not surprised at all by the IS350s performance. Great car, but most definitely not built with performance potential in mind.
04-14-07, 02:35 PM
#97
Lead Lap
I was responding to the starter of this thread and if you take the time to really read it again you'll see that everything I said pertains in some way to it.
So you don't have to go look for his thread it's right here. Enjoy and have a nice day
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lobuxracer
Lexus Champion
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: California
Posts: 1,901 Driving Review
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I don't like starting new threads, but I felt this important enough to make one. I just finished a drive from Monterery to Los Angeles via CA Highway 1. I am extremely disappointed with the IS350's handling - or better said - the IS's electronic nannies and unfortunately heavy curb weight.
In short, the IS350 is NOT FUN on a tight road (50 - 90 mph). The paddle shifters do NOT solve the problem of putting me in the gear I NEED, only in limiting the maximum gear. Anyone else notice how the transmission downshifts when you brake hard setting up for a turn? The downshifts are NOT smooth, and then it hunts for a gear on exit (or worse, tries to downshift again when I don't want/need that much torque at the wheel), so I have a moment of slack time before I can accelerate and balance the car. Ever notice how brake assist gives you MORE brake than you wanted and planned for so your entry speed is all screwed up from what you though you would have?
So here I am, braking to enter the turn - the gearbox is downshifting at the wrong time, the brakes are jamming themselves on harder than I wanted, and I'm trying to focus on line and traction. But I can't. I'm forced to focus on what the electronics are doing to the car because it isn't reasonably predictable. I really hate the nannies, every last one of them!
I haven't tried this with the competition, but I just have this bad feeling BMW is a lot more accommodating and less intrusive if I want to drive over 75 percent. Sorry for the rant, but I really expected a lot better from the IS. I'm kicking myself for leaving the Supra at home.
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04-15-07, 10:59 AM
#98
Pole Position
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I have to agree. I don't pretend to be a racer or have any clue about what makes a good car or a bad car, but all I know is that I ran one canyon run in my RSX and it was absolutely delightful, tight, balanced, poised, and confidence inspiring. I ran the same canyon in the IS, something about the brakes, the steering, and the throttle input never really matched what I intended and had the car squirming about unpredictably. It was the opposite of confidence inspiring, and forces you to pay attention to the car and what it's nannies are doing on their own, as opposed to the RSX which lets you pay attention to the road and the car becomes simply an extension of your hands and feet.
Even though the IS might not "feel" like it handles well, it actually does ok by the track reviews.
http://www.roadandtrack.com/assets/d...car_dp.pdf.pdf
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