2007es350

Do you think anyone here is advocating that the next person should get ripped off? Why can't Daisy get a "new" factory bumper off another car they have on their lot? The dealer should disclose the re-painted bumper to the purchaser and can take some $$$ off the purchase price. Maybe the next purchaser doesn't even care after the re-painted bumper is disclosed!

There's isn't a second wrong here...only a first wrong (you can see Daisy's car for proof). So it isn't unethical to get a replacement part from another new car off the lot. After all, the Dealer owns the new car and can do whatever they want with it. Your idea of transferring the problem is totally SPECULATION! Your idea of second wrong is again SPECULATION! Just let it go!

kensteele

You and your legal attitude are so full of it. If you were so smart, you would know that the court only tried to make things right. They don't dispense perfect justice and they don't penalize and punish like you make it out to be. They're not going to force Lexus to deliver the product exactly and no less, that's crap. When "the contract" is presented to the court, they will interpret it. And that interpretation may be in favour of the plaintiff or the defendent, or a percentage of both, maybe a compromise. You act like if someone does something wrong, you can take your papers to court and the court will be your enforcer and will lay down the hammer. Well....it doesn't work that way; hardly ever. The court is not going to say "daisy paid for a new car and a new car is what she'll get for Leuxs give her a new car...dismissed." Instead they will say "what can we do to make this right." Maybe in PR they don't follow US laws but in this country, small claims court and conciliation court is not all that, especially when there are sometimes no juries and no judges and no lawyers and the evidence is based on a preponderence. And for cars, there is arbitration....so you don't know crap.

kensteele

Not sure what it's like in CA but from what I remember, you are correct, you don't need to ask. Everything you need to know is written down on paper. If you can't understand what you are reading, you might want to ask about that. IIRC, you sign a piece of paper saying what is owed to you or nothing else is owed. Reasonable expectation is a legal term in this context and has no place in the "money-making for profit" dealership. If you take "reasonable expectation" with you to the dealership, you are doing yourself a huge dis-service.

sirkfc

What's wrong with a good repainting job if the car is so new? I bet an overwhelming majority of people saying that repainting is unacceptable would not be able to tell a car has been repainted, and it's not certain it will ever show up on any documentation of the car.

I had my car keyed in the first 1000 miles of ownership. The entire side of my car was repainted. I might just have the worst eye in the world, but I can't tell the difference when it first came out of the shop, and I can't tell the difference now. And people I know can't tell either. I guess ignorance is bliss in this case.

And as a reality check here... our Lexus IS's are the entry level, volume products. Especially a 250. Whatever profit margin the dealer made on selling you that car is probably wiped out by now. They're probably as sick of you as you are of them at this point. Since you're probably not shopping there anymore, they are probably not that motivated to go that much further for you. Sucks for everybody involved, but that's the unfortunate reality now. I'm going to be an a$$ and just say take the repainting and get over it.

IS_NIICE

iTrader: (1)

this is what i have been thinking throughout this thread. if you have a ferrari sure, get something flown in from italy, but over an IS, it's seriously not worth the time--just get it repainted to your standards and move on. by the way sirk, who did your bodywork?

sirkfc

I'm in the SF Bay Area. It was the bodyshop my dealer used and recommended. They also do the Jag and Land Rover dealers in the area, so I was hopeful.

It was pretty pricey. $2400 when it was said and done. Thank goodness for the $100 deductible I have.

I'm not that **** about my car, as I've come to realize, hanging out on this forum, so I was pleased with the paint job. Still looks brand new. I'll tell you guys in a year if it becomes obvious.

AsianGirl007

iTrader: (1)

At this point, your best bet is to do a "bumper swap". Take your car in and WAIT for them to do it. Do NOT leave your car there, do NOT request a 120 wait time for new factory bumper, do NOT give them any warning of your request. These things give them time to do a body shop repainted bumper without your knowlegde.

I have never known Lexus to ship over a pre painted factory bumper by itself. The only way to ensure piece of mind on your part is to have them immediately do the bumper swap. It shouldn't take more than 1 to 2 hours TOPS.

AsianGirl007

iTrader: (1)

I'll tell you how...


Whichever car the dealer does bumper swap with can easily be sold to next customer. Some customers won't mind a aftermarket park assist. Or dealer can repaint it and disclose it. The type of customer who doesn't mind a repaint bumper on a new car is a lease customer since it won't affect them at lease turn in. Or it can be a buyer who wants a cheaper price to offset the repaint. Bottom line is the dealer has several options to sell that car. It isn't Daisy's responsibilty to worry about other car buyers.

There's a popluar saying in the car business: "There's an *** made for every seat". I'm sure the dealer will have no problem unloading the car.

warrionex

Kensteele:

I have read a couple of you threads and post in the past and I see we agreed in almost everything. In Daisy's case, I agree with you in some of your statements not all.

First: The Commonwealth of PR is a US territory. US Fed laws applies exactly the same as in the mainland. In fact, the US Federal District Court of Puerto Rico is a couple of blocks away. We filled our appeals in the US Court of Appeals (First Circuit) located in Boston. And if we are not satisfied we appeal to the US Supreme Court. We have our own "state" legal system much the same as in the states which needs to abide by both the Fed. & the Commonwealth's Constitution. So your faulty statement was corrected.

Second: If you read my posts you will see my position for judicial intervention is as a last resource. The most important thing here is precisely not to give up and be firm in front of dealer agents and employees. The best strategy is to threaten to sue even thou it could be in this particular situation a remote possibility. For me the best and most balance and reasonable resolution in Daisy's case is that Lexus needs to provide exactly the same car she paid for. The replacement of the car with all of the features she paid for. That is my opinion and I will assure you that I don't suffer from conformity. I will go for the best possible resolution and get something in between or get even a better one.

Third: It feels that some members, like you, completely lost faith in the judicial system but that's not my case. Each an every time I needed the help of the courts (small or higher), I received a fair and balance judgment even thou I didn't get everything that I asked for. It included to my favor attorney fees and cost.

You are wrong in this one !! The courts could can say and will say what ever they think is the right decision in Daisy's case. So the court could say "Daisy paid for a new car with this specific options and thats what she'll get. Nothing less nothing more." And thats what the judge can do to make this right.

As an alternative, the judge could say "Daisy paid for a new car with this specific options and the dealer needs to paint and replace the bumber with the oem park system". So don't limit the decision of the Court to the lesser alternative, it could go either way. But let me tell you, Daisy's case is completely clear and I will give her a 95% chance of success. Just look at the post in this thread almost 180 posts and the members majority are inclined not to accept the replacement of the bumper alone.

Finally, I can understand that your small claims court, conciliation and arbitration process doesn't worked that well. But don't blame the whole US judicial or arbitration system. In PR we have one of the best arbitration system in the US. It is not that fast but people can tell you when the decision comes, it will be fair and balance resolution.

We could disagree with respect once again but I hope we don't loose our fraternity and our online friendship! After all, we all want the best possible resolution for Daisy's case.

Warrionex

Daisy1

(Daisy's husband here...)

I tell you why...I just learned over the years that it is better to have a picture-proof of everything you question. Only pictures can be objective because people sometime can overexaggerate a little.
I found myself many times in position when supplier was lying that product came in perfect condition and I was in fault. Other times they couldn't understand why I even complain becase from their perspective, everythig was OK. Taking a picture is quick and most of the time it clears all misunderstading from the start. Also they can't change anything later and say that it didn't happen.

....and yes DPE is a pricy wheel but this is 2 piece forged wheel, custom made to match any spec you want.

And they look great

IS350jet

The only way there would ever be a legal case with Daisy's situation would be if the dealer declined to do anything about it. This is clearly not the case as the dealer has stepped up. You cannot take legal action against a dealer before giving them an opportunity to make the situation right. That is the first thing the courts will ask. If the offending dealer makes a good faith effort to fix the problem, you have no case, period. If the effort is less than satisfying to the customer then there could be a case but the expectations of the plaintiff cannot be unreasonable.

Daisy1

(Daisy's husband here...)

At this point I'm not taking any action until I'll found out details of dealer's offer. On the phone my wife was assured that bumper will be replaced with new one and they will refund Park Assist option.

As I said many times before... I was very pleased with our sales person and that's why I will wait to see if they made everything right. If they do...I bet you my wife will be happy - case closed. If they will start playing games...I will go other route.

syn1313

all i can say is wow !! i just read all 12 pages and i must say that Daisy's husban did the right thing and stayed calm and worked thru it. I would have installed my own back up sensor up the managers bumper called my size 11

IS_NIICE

iTrader: (1)

hey, that's a nice audi...but my dad recently got quoted for some dpe's. they are the S-20's in anthracite 20" but we were quoted 4400 with conti sport tires...it is for the bimmer that we have comin in. the tires were about 850 subtracted from 4400 you have 3550 for the rims. this comes around to about 880 per wheel, but we got 20's. maybe we just got a great deal?

warrionex

Precisely !!