OC 335d

Not quite. You can't heel-toe with an auto. Depending on the transmission, a lot will shift for you when you want it to stay at high RPMs. If you plan on adding tons of HP, most auto transmissions cannot handle the load of the increased hp/tq.. With a manual, you can simply change the clutch and you will be fine. While autos can be great, let's not forget that they are much more limited. Repeat after me, performance is not just 0-60, 0-100, or 1/4 mile.

Which Ultra Performance Supercars don't have manuals? MOST???

javyLSU

iTrader: (21)

Most "manual" transmissions offered in high-end exotic sports cars are actually DSG, SMG, or some variant of a clutchless transmission - hence the popularity of today's paddle shifters. (See new Ferrari's, anything AMG, Corvette C6, most of Audi's top-end USDM offerings - the list goes on and on...) For the non-professional driver, a performance automatic transmission delivers superior shifts every time. The new SMGII transmission delivers shifts in 80 milliseconds. If you can shift gears in 80 milliseconds, my hat's off to you. Hey, I like rowing through gears just like everybody else... but performance automatics are superior (in shifting) to manual transmissions.

Javier

OC 335d

Didn't you say ultra-performance supercars? The only Audi that is an ultra performance super car isn't out yet. The C6 is not a "super" car. Don't confuse a clutchless transmission with a cushy automatic found in a Lexus.

That's nice but we're on the subject of the ISx50 transmission and its automatic is nothing like a SMG or DSG. BTW, SMGII is old. SMGIII has been out for awhile now.

See bolded:
Let me repeat again, it's not about how fast you shift. It's about control. The Lexus Automatic transmission is nothing like a SMG/DSG/Tiptronic, etc.

llamaboiz

LOL what a over simplification. Dont give the 2fast2stupid generation ideas ok?
For those of you who dont know cars, theres alot more to worry about after you've put on your 'racing' clutch.

Snapping a stock axle is alot better than snapping a stock driveshaft under acceleration, a broken driveshaft sure does alot of damage in a rwd car, trust me I know. Those 2 things are just the first of your driveline mods from the clutch on back. Frame reinforcement is another overlooked item... Theres no end once you start, IF your gonna do things right.

OC 335d

Well, it depends on how much HP you want.

Koofteh

AMGs still use traditional auto boxes for the most part... nothing clutchless about it.

OC 335d

While AMGs make tons of horsepower, I don't consider them Ultra Performance SuperCars. Mercedes is known for luxury and are sticking by their marquee.

javyLSU

iTrader: (21)

You're caught up in semantics... Who cares if the R8 is out yet or not? It doesn't make it any less of a non-manual transmission - it's still an "R-tronic", sequential gearbox. But since Ferrari's, Audi R8's, RS4's, and Corvette's are not "performance" enough for you, consider this prime example: the Bugatti Veyron, arguably the fastest car in the world. 987 horespower. 922 ft/lbs of torque. Transmission? Seven speed DSG. I do agree with you, however, that manual transmissions offer certain benefits over automatics (namely complete control), and in certain discrete applications having a true manual gearbox is the way to go... But as we all know, having complete control is not always the best thing.
I couldn't agree more, and that's my point exactly. As modern transmissions get better and better, the "performance" reward for getting a true manual becomes smaller and smaller. If a manumatic-type setup gives you full control over the transmission and uber-quick shifts, what's the advantage of a manual then? In the case of the 2IS, it's surely not gas mileage anymore - the 250 MT gets 20 and 28 mpg, while the 250 AT gets 24 and 32 mpg, respectively. Until someboy starts laying down laptimes in an IS250 MT that's equal to or faster than an identically equipped auto, it can only be called a "fun feature"...

Oh, and you're right about me going off topic... sorry!!!

Javier

OC 335d

It sounds like we are both agreeing on the same principle then.

I agree modern transmissions are getting better and better. If the ISx50 were to have a DSG type transmission I don't think we'd be having this debate.

Did I mention most of my previous cars were all manuals until my recent BMW 335i with the Steptronic? I am not a fanatic manual or nothing type of person. I just think there is more to a good automatic than a fast shifter.

javyLSU

iTrader: (21)

^^Agreed - that's why I love this forum - gearheads can get together and talk CARS!!! Unless I'm missing something, all these cars look like automatics to me... this is right off the AMG website:





And you can add the SLR McLaren to that list, too...

Javier

Koofteh

^ I thought you were saying that all AMGs had some sort of clutchless manual gearbox which is obviously wrong. I think you meant they all have paddle shifters though.

llamaboiz

So who uses automatic hmm lets see...the top rally teams subaru/ford/that french company, D1 pro drift cars, F1, NHRA/IHRA Top Fuel class cars, IMSA and a hella lotta more use automatic transmissions.

onihc

iTrader: (1)

mercedes has torque converter, therefore traditional automatic.

Did you know....
Only vehicle in the Toyota line up that was released with a true semi-automatic gear box was the MR2 Spyder Sequential.

onihc

iTrader: (1)

Big difference between automatics and semi-automatics.

kickin8

iTrader: (1)

that thing is sooooooo fast that you dont even need a paddle shifter.......

drove my buddy's E55 (210) and that thing was simply.........fasttttttttttt