*** Why I might sell my IS **RANT**
06-25-07, 03:09 PM
#31
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I think he's got very valid points. Anyone here who thinks that there aren't a bunch of annoying nannies built into the car is kidding themself.
The fact is, people are going to cause accidents for a variety of reasons. This is the understanding we all have when we get in our car and drive every time. Many of these nanny features deny the driver the choice to do what he/she wants to do. In effect, Lexus is saying 'We are going to build this great car with all of the neat features, but turn off the ones that we feel are unsafe at our discretion. Please don't take this personally, but you, the Lexus owner, just aren't mature and responsible enough to drive safely of your own accord, so we will handle that for you.'
For the it's-for-your-own-good crowd I say that setting a nationwide speed limit of 3 miles per hour, banning the sale of any car that can accelerate to 60 in less than 15 seconds and removing all radio and other entertainment equipment would be for our own good too. Any takers?
For me this is a large negative which is offset by the vast majority of positives of the IS. For others, this might be more important.
To me, this is insulting to a degree.
Edit: I am not saying that I want to watch movies and play with my seats and whatever else while driving, however, I want the freedom to make that choice on my own. As a friend of mine once said, 'you can't idiot-proof any system'. Cars come under this heading too. For the morons that want to crash their cars, not being able to watch a movie while driving won't prevent this.
The fact is, people are going to cause accidents for a variety of reasons. This is the understanding we all have when we get in our car and drive every time. Many of these nanny features deny the driver the choice to do what he/she wants to do. In effect, Lexus is saying 'We are going to build this great car with all of the neat features, but turn off the ones that we feel are unsafe at our discretion. Please don't take this personally, but you, the Lexus owner, just aren't mature and responsible enough to drive safely of your own accord, so we will handle that for you.'
For the it's-for-your-own-good crowd I say that setting a nationwide speed limit of 3 miles per hour, banning the sale of any car that can accelerate to 60 in less than 15 seconds and removing all radio and other entertainment equipment would be for our own good too. Any takers?
For me this is a large negative which is offset by the vast majority of positives of the IS. For others, this might be more important.
To me, this is insulting to a degree.
Edit: I am not saying that I want to watch movies and play with my seats and whatever else while driving, however, I want the freedom to make that choice on my own. As a friend of mine once said, 'you can't idiot-proof any system'. Cars come under this heading too. For the morons that want to crash their cars, not being able to watch a movie while driving won't prevent this.
Last edited by SoddingGit; 06-25-07 at 03:13 PM.
06-25-07, 03:18 PM
#33
Lexus Fanatic
All you guys talking about 'let us do what we want' and/or 'its for your own good'... you guys are preaching to the choir boiz. We ALL KNOW THIS ALREADY, go voice your opinions to Lexus or your state representative. OP just wanted to vent.
06-25-07, 03:27 PM
#34
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Unfortunately when you say 'you, not Lexus' are held accountable for your actions that is not borne out by facts today. Morons will watch a movie, crash, and then sue Lexus because nobody told them it was not safe to do so. Surely when we live in a country when an idiot lawyer can sue a dry cleaning establisment for $54,000,000 because they lost his pants it is not unreasonable for Lexus to want to prevent similar frivolous lawsuits. As you say, there is a 34 page hack on this feature so if it is that important for you to be able to watch movies just go ahead and hack away. It's illegal in every state of the Union, but who cares? James wants to watch his DVD's, so he should be able to do it !!! I guess that is the argument. But whatever happened to being a good Scout and playing by the rules? 
The only beef I can see that has any merit is the lockout of the passenger side memory seats while in motion. That is no safety issue.
And leaving the car running at the Quikie Mart to run in and getting a soda is just plain dumb today with hijackings and car theft. As we know a crook can jump in and drive away and the engine will keep running until he turns it off or it runs out of gas. Let's hope he doesn't do it with the kiddie in the back seat.
The only beef I can see that has any merit is the lockout of the passenger side memory seats while in motion. That is no safety issue.
And leaving the car running at the Quikie Mart to run in and getting a soda is just plain dumb today with hijackings and car theft. As we know a crook can jump in and drive away and the engine will keep running until he turns it off or it runs out of gas. Let's hope he doesn't do it with the kiddie in the back seat.
06-25-07, 03:29 PM
#35
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06-25-07, 04:02 PM
#36
If you agree that people become dangerous drivers when they hold their cell phone, or turn toward their passengers when talking to them, why is it so hard to believe that messing with the NAV while driving is equally dangerous?
Darwinians might say that the drivers deserve what they get but what about those they transport or hit? You might claim you are disciplined and skilled enough to handle an open NAV, but do you trust the people you share the road with to be equally skilled?
06-25-07, 04:10 PM
#37
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06-25-07, 04:34 PM
#38
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If you agree that people become dangerous drivers when they hold their cell phone, or turn toward their passengers when talking to them, why is it so hard to believe that messing with the NAV while driving is equally dangerous?
Darwinians might say that the drivers deserve what they get but what about those they transport or hit? You might claim you are disciplined and skilled enough to handle an open NAV, but do you trust the people you share the road with to be equally skilled?
Darwinians might say that the drivers deserve what they get but what about those they transport or hit? You might claim you are disciplined and skilled enough to handle an open NAV, but do you trust the people you share the road with to be equally skilled?
The conglomeration of all these laws and the licensing of all of us to drive according to these laws is the pact we agree to every time we get in to our cars. The one thing which we can't create a law for is common sense, which, IMO, is the most important piece of this puzzle.
Whether its the radio, the cigarette lighter, the sunroof or the NAV, when you play around with any of these things not vital to driving safely, you can run into problems. My point here is that this is the responsibility of the driver, not the manufacturer because it then becomes a common sense issue.
I strongly believe that even if you take common sense out of the equation you will run into more problems. Instead of getting into an accident when inputing a new destination into the nav, you will get into the same accident because you failed to indicate or mistook the brake for the gas.
The simple solution, for the NAV anyway, is to make the voice command better.
06-25-07, 04:58 PM
#39
Sorry, guys/gals but I am with Tsitalon1's this time.
Instead of the EVO consider the EOS (hardtop convertible).
Warrionex
Instead of the EVO consider the EOS (hardtop convertible).
Warrionex
Last edited by DaveGS4; 06-25-07 at 08:31 PM. Reason: removed image larger than a VW bus.
06-25-07, 07:03 PM
#40
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I felt left out so I though I would chime in. I have a three year old girl and the only problem I have is that she kicks the seats. I adjusted my doors to open with one touch, the NAV, I knew about when I bought the car and when the time comes, NAV TV will solve the video problem so she can watch barney when I drive...BTW her seat is in the middle where it belongs for her saftey NOT my convenience. Its a great spot 'cause the air vents cool her quickly. I dont have memory seats, I didnt see a need for them, if you dont like where you are sitting there are these really cool buttons to adjust the 12 way seats. Sure it would be great to input addresses while driving, but its the girl (no offense) who is on the cell phone putting on makeup and driving in front of me that I need to keep my eye on. It would be cool if Lexus/Toyota had the NAV set so that the passanger could input addresses - probably an easy fix similar to the air bag sensor.
All-in-All I love my car, a little short on space in the back, but again I knew that and tested it before I bought the car.
I think that its great that you have a place to rant and people (most) will respect your opinions. But at the end of the day its you who controls your life not your car, the kid sounds like an excuse and that's not cool. Maybe a mini van is more your speed or a larger sedan, but I dont know of any car in this price range (or higher) that does what you want it to.
All-in-All I love my car, a little short on space in the back, but again I knew that and tested it before I bought the car.
I think that its great that you have a place to rant and people (most) will respect your opinions. But at the end of the day its you who controls your life not your car, the kid sounds like an excuse and that's not cool. Maybe a mini van is more your speed or a larger sedan, but I dont know of any car in this price range (or higher) that does what you want it to.
Last edited by cancellino; 06-25-07 at 07:08 PM.
06-25-07, 07:19 PM
#41
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The point is simple. Give me a choice Lexus. Don't assume I'm an idiot and completely take away the capability. Give me 3 additional warning screens before allowing me to input a destination while driving, I'm good with that.
And whomever said I would sue lexus if involved in an accident while driving is wrong. I would sue Club Lexus since we have a 38 page how to hack it right here
Just playing of course.
People are so willing to trade in there rights, freedoms, abilities, capabilities for the " perception" of safety.
Lexus has even managed to convince 1/2 the people on this forum that it's in their best interest (read..safer) not to have those capabilities while driving. I don't understand that. This forum is full of affluant (spelling ?) people whom, for the most part, are highly educated. How did that happen?
Where do you draw the line.....should I sue Lexus because the automatic wipers came on when I wasn't expecting them and it caused an accident... that could be a "safety" issue. Should I sue the chick at the mall with the mini skirt because I ran into the back of a car while watching her? I believe there are laws against driver distractions, that should certainly be considered a distraction. We could go on and on.
The intent of the thread was meaningless ranting. Somehow, it has become a personal attack. I really don't care. I am, however, astonished at the degree in which some of you allow Lexus, and the legal system, to treat you like complete idiots. While I feel I have been personally attacked on this thread, I expected it. All forums operate this way, I guess even "high class" Lexus forums. I, however, will remain calm and make my points.
James
PS. I will not buy a mini-van...quit it dude! And the guy that hates marriage and thinks I'm crazy, are you serious?
And whomever said I would sue lexus if involved in an accident while driving is wrong. I would sue Club Lexus since we have a 38 page how to hack it right here
Just playing of course.People are so willing to trade in there rights, freedoms, abilities, capabilities for the " perception" of safety.
Lexus has even managed to convince 1/2 the people on this forum that it's in their best interest (read..safer) not to have those capabilities while driving. I don't understand that. This forum is full of affluant (spelling ?) people whom, for the most part, are highly educated. How did that happen?
Where do you draw the line.....should I sue Lexus because the automatic wipers came on when I wasn't expecting them and it caused an accident... that could be a "safety" issue. Should I sue the chick at the mall with the mini skirt because I ran into the back of a car while watching her? I believe there are laws against driver distractions, that should certainly be considered a distraction. We could go on and on.
The intent of the thread was meaningless ranting. Somehow, it has become a personal attack. I really don't care. I am, however, astonished at the degree in which some of you allow Lexus, and the legal system, to treat you like complete idiots. While I feel I have been personally attacked on this thread, I expected it. All forums operate this way, I guess even "high class" Lexus forums. I, however, will remain calm and make my points.
James
PS. I will not buy a mini-van...quit it dude! And the guy that hates marriage and thinks I'm crazy, are you serious?
06-25-07, 07:34 PM
#42
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I dont think people are "attacking you", but when you post a rant you have to expect criticisms (for or against) its the naure of the beast and you expected it so it can't be an attack. You have some good points, but your on a forum where everyone loves their car and while we all have complaints the underlying theme is "Its a LEXUS". No, I wouldnt buy a mini-van either, no way! A larger Sadan, Maybe the LS its a sweet ride...
06-25-07, 07:43 PM
#43
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The point is simple. Give me a choice Lexus. Don't assume I'm an idiot and completely take away the capability. Give me 3 additional warning screens before allowing me to input a destination while driving, I'm good with that.
And whomever said I would sue lexus if involved in an accident while driving is wrong. I would sue Club Lexus since we have a 38 page how to hack it right here Just playing of course.
People are so willing to trade in there rights, freedoms, abilities, capabilities for the " perception" of safety.
Lexus has even managed to convince 1/2 the people on this forum that it's in their best interest (read..safer) not to have those capabilities while driving. I don't understand that. This forum is full of affluant (spelling ?) people whom, for the most part, are highly educated. How did that happen?
Where do you draw the line.....should I sue Lexus because the automatic wipers came on when I wasn't expecting them and it caused an accident... that could be a "safety" issue. Should I sue the chick at the mall with the mini skirt because I ran into the back of a car while watching her? I believe there are laws against driver distractions, that should certainly be considered a distraction. We could go on and on.
The intent of the thread was meaningless ranting. Somehow, it has become a personal attack. I really don't care. I am, however, astonished at the degree in which some of you allow Lexus, and the legal system, to treat you like complete idiots. While I feel I have been personally attacked on this thread, I expected it. All forums operate this way, I guess even "high class" Lexus forums. I, however, will remain calm and make my points.
James
PS. I will not buy a mini-van...quit it dude! And the guy that hates marriage and thinks I'm crazy, are you serious?
And whomever said I would sue lexus if involved in an accident while driving is wrong. I would sue Club Lexus since we have a 38 page how to hack it right here
Just playing of course.People are so willing to trade in there rights, freedoms, abilities, capabilities for the " perception" of safety.
Lexus has even managed to convince 1/2 the people on this forum that it's in their best interest (read..safer) not to have those capabilities while driving. I don't understand that. This forum is full of affluant (spelling ?) people whom, for the most part, are highly educated. How did that happen?
Where do you draw the line.....should I sue Lexus because the automatic wipers came on when I wasn't expecting them and it caused an accident... that could be a "safety" issue. Should I sue the chick at the mall with the mini skirt because I ran into the back of a car while watching her? I believe there are laws against driver distractions, that should certainly be considered a distraction. We could go on and on.
The intent of the thread was meaningless ranting. Somehow, it has become a personal attack. I really don't care. I am, however, astonished at the degree in which some of you allow Lexus, and the legal system, to treat you like complete idiots. While I feel I have been personally attacked on this thread, I expected it. All forums operate this way, I guess even "high class" Lexus forums. I, however, will remain calm and make my points.
James
PS. I will not buy a mini-van...quit it dude! And the guy that hates marriage and thinks I'm crazy, are you serious?
It sounds as though you, like me, would prefer some choice in the matter, and rely on our common sense and abilities behind the wheel to get us through.
However, what you need to ask yourself, after having a few days to cool off, is whether these annoyances outweigh the enjoyment you get out of your car. Only you can answer that, and no one here has any right to tell you that you should be driving a mini-van.
respect on the marriage issue. My wife and I just had a daughter and we couldn't be happier.
P.S. It's affluent.
06-25-07, 08:01 PM
#44
Lexus Fanatic
Then tell me if you still think im crazy 
*btw: whoever posted the pics, thanks for editing the size of the pics on this page YA NOOB*
06-25-07, 08:11 PM
#45
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The point is simple. Give me a choice Lexus. Don't assume I'm an idiot and completely take away the capability. Give me 3 additional warning screens before allowing me to input a destination while driving, I'm good with that.
And whomever said I would sue lexus if involved in an accident while driving is wrong. I would sue Club Lexus since we have a 38 page how to hack it right here Just playing of course.
People are so willing to trade in there rights, freedoms, abilities, capabilities for the " perception" of safety.
Lexus has even managed to convince 1/2 the people on this forum that it's in their best interest (read..safer) not to have those capabilities while driving. I don't understand that. This forum is full of affluant (spelling ?) people whom, for the most part, are highly educated. How did that happen?
Where do you draw the line.....should I sue Lexus because the automatic wipers came on when I wasn't expecting them and it caused an accident... that could be a "safety" issue. Should I sue the chick at the mall with the mini skirt because I ran into the back of a car while watching her? I believe there are laws against driver distractions, that should certainly be considered a distraction. We could go on and on.
The intent of the thread was meaningless ranting. Somehow, it has become a personal attack. I really don't care. I am, however, astonished at the degree in which some of you allow Lexus, and the legal system, to treat you like complete idiots. While I feel I have been personally attacked on this thread, I expected it. All forums operate this way, I guess even "high class" Lexus forums. I, however, will remain calm and make my points.
James
PS. I will not buy a mini-van...quit it dude! And the guy that hates marriage and thinks I'm crazy, are you serious?
And whomever said I would sue lexus if involved in an accident while driving is wrong. I would sue Club Lexus since we have a 38 page how to hack it right here
Just playing of course.People are so willing to trade in there rights, freedoms, abilities, capabilities for the " perception" of safety.
Lexus has even managed to convince 1/2 the people on this forum that it's in their best interest (read..safer) not to have those capabilities while driving. I don't understand that. This forum is full of affluant (spelling ?) people whom, for the most part, are highly educated. How did that happen?
Where do you draw the line.....should I sue Lexus because the automatic wipers came on when I wasn't expecting them and it caused an accident... that could be a "safety" issue. Should I sue the chick at the mall with the mini skirt because I ran into the back of a car while watching her? I believe there are laws against driver distractions, that should certainly be considered a distraction. We could go on and on.
The intent of the thread was meaningless ranting. Somehow, it has become a personal attack. I really don't care. I am, however, astonished at the degree in which some of you allow Lexus, and the legal system, to treat you like complete idiots. While I feel I have been personally attacked on this thread, I expected it. All forums operate this way, I guess even "high class" Lexus forums. I, however, will remain calm and make my points.
James
PS. I will not buy a mini-van...quit it dude! And the guy that hates marriage and thinks I'm crazy, are you serious?
I'm sure Technique would be more than happy to show you how you can get around these things.
Lexus knows that people will hack their cars. They didn't make their coin overnight, and have lots of high priced lawyers working for them. If you hack, then Lexus is 100% free of liability. They know that. The choice and liability is all yours.