*** Why I might sell my IS **RANT**
#46
Lexus Champion
This is totally false. The business world is rife with people who modified or misused a product, got hurt, and then sued the pants off of the manufacturer or whoever has the deepest pockets. And they often win. We live in a litigous society, for better or worse. It has been a long time since we have lived in a world when we could do whatever we wanted. But the US is still the place to be for overall personal freedom, even with Lexus playing daddy for us in ways that bother people.
#47
The intent of the thread was meaningless ranting. Somehow, it has become a personal attack. I really don't care. I am, however, astonished at the degree in which some of you allow Lexus, and the legal system, to treat you like complete idiots. While I feel I have been personally attacked on this thread, I expected it. All forums operate this way, I guess even "high class" Lexus forums. I, however, will remain calm and make my points.
James
PS. I will not buy a mini-van...quit it dude! And the guy that hates marriage and thinks I'm crazy, are you serious?
James
PS. I will not buy a mini-van...quit it dude! And the guy that hates marriage and thinks I'm crazy, are you serious?
You’re astonished at the degree in which some allow Lexus and the legal system to treat us like idiots?
I am astonished at people who research a product, know and understand the product, purchase the product and then complain about it.
Not a personal attack, just an observation.
#48
Let me ask you then. What happens if you happen to put a baby in the seat or a larger kid and he happens to push the memory seat? The seatbelt my tighten up, and something might happen. We are also assuming that this kid doesn't know how to stop it. You have a problem don't you? My seatbelt on my BMW do not extend if my car is in motion. I can't say the same for all BMW's but mine do not.
The question is , does any body own a different brand of car, that allows the passenger is allowed to use memory if the car is in gear?
Mind you, i do believe that its crock that the memory seats don't work while in gear. I'm just playing devil's advocate here.
#49
i agree with all your other points. But this one i believe we do not agree on. No other car company has this feature enabled, nor do alarm companies that install an after market alarm ever do this. This is a pure safety problem.
On the DVD Video thing, i don't know if it's legal down there. But up here in Canada, video cannot be displayed in the front seats of the car. It's a hefty fine, so Lexus Canada has a reason. Not sure what its down there, but motion video in the front seat rocks. I had it on my previous car, i just made sure i hit the button to change it if i saw any trouble.
#50
100% agree with you here, however, every frivolous lawsuit that is won opens the door for 10 more. The problem is that it costs big corporations more money to fight these lawsuits than to just pay them off. Perhaps this is a problem with the legal system in general, but I have to wonder where it ends?
Guys, you have to look at it from the manufacturer's point of view. They do not want a lawsuit, over something they could prevent. It makes sense, they might lose a few sales due to these annoyance. Even if they pocketed 10K profit off of each car. They would need to sell a ton of cars, if the US justice system ever handed out a $200 million pay day for some joe!
#51
Hold on, I said in my BMW. My BMW does not have memory seats for passengers or driver.
Let me ask you then. What happens if you happen to put a baby in the seat or a larger kid and he happens to push the memory seat? The seatbelt my tighten up, and something might happen. We are also assuming that this kid doesn't know how to stop it. You have a problem don't you? My seatbelt on my BMW do not extend if my car is in motion. I can't say the same for all BMW's but mine do not.
The question is , does any body own a different brand of car, that allows the passenger is allowed to use memory if the car is in gear?
Mind you, i do believe that its crock that the memory seats don't work while in gear. I'm just playing devil's advocate here.
Let me ask you then. What happens if you happen to put a baby in the seat or a larger kid and he happens to push the memory seat? The seatbelt my tighten up, and something might happen. We are also assuming that this kid doesn't know how to stop it. You have a problem don't you? My seatbelt on my BMW do not extend if my car is in motion. I can't say the same for all BMW's but mine do not.
The question is , does any body own a different brand of car, that allows the passenger is allowed to use memory if the car is in gear?
Mind you, i do believe that its crock that the memory seats don't work while in gear. I'm just playing devil's advocate here.
#52
Lexus has even managed to convince 1/2 the people on this forum that it's in their best interest (read..safer) not to have those capabilities while driving. I don't understand that. This forum is full of affluant (spelling ?) people whom, for the most part, are highly educated. How did that happen?
..... I am, however, astonished at the degree in which some of you allow Lexus, and the legal system, to treat you like complete idiots.
..... I am, however, astonished at the degree in which some of you allow Lexus, and the legal system, to treat you like complete idiots.
Trust me, there are only a few complete idiots here, and Lexus is not one of them.
A perfect example is what happened to Audi in the 80's. Stupid idiots who stepped on the gas instead of the brake sued for unintended acceleration. Audi basically died for 10 years and who knows if they've fully recovered. They were facing damages of over $5B from claims at one point. All because stupid drivers can't figure out gas means go... Still think cars shouldn't be tailored to the lowest common denominator?
Last edited by sirkfc; 06-25-07 at 10:16 PM.
#55
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tsitalon....
by your name I guess you came from an Eagle Talon TSi AWD, which is the same car I used to have a few years back. Well, that car had none of the problem you mentioned in the lexus, but obviously it's not suitable for a baby seat and a 2 year old.
Lexus does not limit your ability to adjust your seats while in motion, just limits you from setting or recalling a setting while the car is in motion. The same reason why the driver isn't allowed to recall his seat setting while the car is in motion also applies to the passenger - there's liability issue that not just Lexus, but other automobile manufacturers will need to comply with. So Lexus isn't interested in "dumming" its customers, its just trying to cover its *** from potential lawsuit. Even if you won't sue, someone else might/will.
Perhaps some of your habits do not bode well with Lexus's built-in safety features which is required by law. So find another car that doesn't have these restrictions so that it can suit your habits. That's all!
by your name I guess you came from an Eagle Talon TSi AWD, which is the same car I used to have a few years back. Well, that car had none of the problem you mentioned in the lexus, but obviously it's not suitable for a baby seat and a 2 year old.
Lexus does not limit your ability to adjust your seats while in motion, just limits you from setting or recalling a setting while the car is in motion. The same reason why the driver isn't allowed to recall his seat setting while the car is in motion also applies to the passenger - there's liability issue that not just Lexus, but other automobile manufacturers will need to comply with. So Lexus isn't interested in "dumming" its customers, its just trying to cover its *** from potential lawsuit. Even if you won't sue, someone else might/will.
Perhaps some of your habits do not bode well with Lexus's built-in safety features which is required by law. So find another car that doesn't have these restrictions so that it can suit your habits. That's all!
#57
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Yes, I fully built an 11.9 sec DSM. Infact selling it was critical to obtaining the deposit needed for the Lexus. I do miss 500whp and awd. Selling it, I came to the mindset that I need a car not only somewhat powerfull, but with a little something extra to make it seem worth it to me.
Guys, I feel this may have gotten out-of hand. I respect everyone here. Ultimately, I will have to decide what I want to do. Please do not misunderstand me. I am 90% satisfied with the car. There are times that I'm smiling ear to ear, there are times that I am so very frustrtated.
The issue could simply be a matter of expectations and lack of experience with newer model vehicles. Sure I knew I couldn't input destinations while driving, hell I knew almost everything about the car before I even went to the dealer for the test drive. However, what I didn't know was how much it was going to bother me not having that ability. I didn't know about the Key FOB being disabled while the car is running. I also didn't know that the passenger memory presets are disabled while in gear. Maybe I missed someone's post about that before I bought the car, but I doubt it.
Are these annoyances enough to make me sell the car....maybe.. time will tell. I picked the Lexus over the 335I because of the interior and the "gadgets/conviences". If I had truly understood that alot of the functionality of the conviences were disabled while actually operating the vehicle, I may have picked the 335I. Since I don't regularly sit in a parking lot to watch a movie, I question why it was implementated anyway. Do alot of you simply sit in your garage to watch a movie, or sit in a walmart parking lot to watch a movie. This makes no sense to me, they should of left that functioanlity out all together.
I could hack it. I am not necessarily adverse to modding, hell I did build an Eclipse from the ground up. I just have issue voiding the warranty on a $45k car. My luck, the damn NAV unit will fail 1 year later and cost me god knows what to fix it.
So in the end, I will have to decide what I want. Sure the IS is fast, sure it's smooth. I wouldn't neccessarily call it quiet. If what everyone is saying is true about most, if not all, manufacturers implementing these same restrictions, I might want to look at either a car with the same or better performance for less money, since I won't be able to use any other features while driving.
James
#58
Neova,
If I had truly understood that alot of the functionality of the conviences were disabled while actually operating the vehicle, I may have picked the 335I. Since I don't regularly sit in a parking lot to watch a movie, I question why it was implementated anyway. Do alot of you simply sit in your garage to watch a movie, or sit in a walmart parking lot to watch a movie. This makes no sense to me, they should of left that functioanlity out all together.
If I had truly understood that alot of the functionality of the conviences were disabled while actually operating the vehicle, I may have picked the 335I. Since I don't regularly sit in a parking lot to watch a movie, I question why it was implementated anyway. Do alot of you simply sit in your garage to watch a movie, or sit in a walmart parking lot to watch a movie. This makes no sense to me, they should of left that functioanlity out all together.
#59
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Hey guys,
Let me put on the fireman's suit now, I have been taking a beating
1. Those who are insinuating that I am an unsafe person who needs to get me priorites straight, do realize that this forum has a 34 page thread on how to hack your NAV and watch DVD's while driving right? Please spare me the safety lecture, if you want to compare driving records we can do that.
2. I had forgotten that I could configure the car to unlock all doors upon driver's door handle contact... I will try to find the faq for that.
3. As far as why I would want to unlock the car with it running. Simple, It is 98º here with 50% humidity, sometimes I want to leave the car running when I run into the gas station for a coke. I wouldn't call this unreasonable
4. For the "gentleman" that stated "For $45K, you get the off-the-shelf car Lexus offers you, nothing more", While $45k might be entry level in the Lexus/luxury world, it is still alot of money. And I also find it sad that even the LS has these restrictions.
5. Passenger memory seating restrictions are simply stupid! there is NO good reason why my passenger shouldn't be able to use them while I am driving. If he starts to get chocked by the seat belt, he can use the manual adjustment or disconnect the seat belt.
6. For the person who said I may want to glance at the dvd movie while driving, can you tell me you never glance at a woman on the side of the road, you never EVER take you eyes off the road? That smells like BS to me. There are distractions everywhere. "you" not lexus are held accountable for your actions. sure some idiot sued lexus for allowing him to watch a movie while driving and now it's a restriction to do so.
7. For the person that said I should buy a mini-van, how is that even slightly related. This is a elementary response since I hurt your feelings, and I don't think the 2IS is the best car in the world.
Remember guys, I own one, I am one of the club members here. I am not some outsider starting an argument. These are valid complaints. Sure you may not agree, but when you buy a Lexus, you are saying I WANT not need some niceties, I want some creature comforts, I WANT some convience. All I am saying is that it is damn annoying that half of the cars's ability is restricted while in motion, and the damn key fob should work ALL the time, not just when the car is not running.
Respectfully,
James
Let me put on the fireman's suit now, I have been taking a beating
1. Those who are insinuating that I am an unsafe person who needs to get me priorites straight, do realize that this forum has a 34 page thread on how to hack your NAV and watch DVD's while driving right? Please spare me the safety lecture, if you want to compare driving records we can do that.
2. I had forgotten that I could configure the car to unlock all doors upon driver's door handle contact... I will try to find the faq for that.
3. As far as why I would want to unlock the car with it running. Simple, It is 98º here with 50% humidity, sometimes I want to leave the car running when I run into the gas station for a coke. I wouldn't call this unreasonable
4. For the "gentleman" that stated "For $45K, you get the off-the-shelf car Lexus offers you, nothing more", While $45k might be entry level in the Lexus/luxury world, it is still alot of money. And I also find it sad that even the LS has these restrictions.
5. Passenger memory seating restrictions are simply stupid! there is NO good reason why my passenger shouldn't be able to use them while I am driving. If he starts to get chocked by the seat belt, he can use the manual adjustment or disconnect the seat belt.
6. For the person who said I may want to glance at the dvd movie while driving, can you tell me you never glance at a woman on the side of the road, you never EVER take you eyes off the road? That smells like BS to me. There are distractions everywhere. "you" not lexus are held accountable for your actions. sure some idiot sued lexus for allowing him to watch a movie while driving and now it's a restriction to do so.
7. For the person that said I should buy a mini-van, how is that even slightly related. This is a elementary response since I hurt your feelings, and I don't think the 2IS is the best car in the world.
Remember guys, I own one, I am one of the club members here. I am not some outsider starting an argument. These are valid complaints. Sure you may not agree, but when you buy a Lexus, you are saying I WANT not need some niceties, I want some creature comforts, I WANT some convience. All I am saying is that it is damn annoying that half of the cars's ability is restricted while in motion, and the damn key fob should work ALL the time, not just when the car is not running.
Respectfully,
James
I also agree that it would be nice if the Nav allowed routing while in motion. While I wouldn't try it while driving, it would be nice if the passenger could do it. I could see this being handy if you were on an interstate and wanted to find a route without first having to find a rest area which might actually be after the exit you'd need.
But knowing the limitations, we just have to learn to use the devices the best we can.
#60
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Hmmm, let's compare your IS with an Acura TL:
Locks - same problem, if your ignition is on, your fob is useless. At least the IS has the smartkey, current gen TL still uses the key/fob . . .
Shifter - worse problem, if you accidentally turn the ignition off with shifter in gear, you cannot get the key out. You still need to put the ignition to 'on', place shifter to P or N to get the key out (doh).
Nav - here the Acura shines, you can enter nav functions while in gear or in motion. However the IS gen V LCD screen is light years clearer and sharper than the TL. The Acura does not play video Dvds at all, good thing since the screen is so shabby . . .
Memory - Acura locks out the driver's memory buttons while in gear as well, however the memory buttons work when the ignition is off, the IS requires the ignition to be on. The Acura does not have memory settings for the passenger, so this point is mute. Also, the TL's tilt and telescope wheel is manual, so it is not tied to the memory settings like the IS.
Couple of observations with my IS:
You already know about the LPS settings for having all doors unlock by touching the drivers door.
You can use the override to enable your Nav functions, altho it requires either a '06 Nav disk or a hybrid disk with 5.1 firmware. Takes less than 10 seconds to enable this . . .
You already know that you can hack your ML/Nav to view Dvds while moving. I haven't yet, but I have found that my 4 yr olds enjoy watching the Nav screen almost as much as a movie (set to 300ft with POIs on), the voice prompts add extra entertainment value. Besides on trips over 30mins, my kids will pass out . . .
In short, I wouldn't trade a IS for a TL just for the Nav fuctionality . . .
Locks - same problem, if your ignition is on, your fob is useless. At least the IS has the smartkey, current gen TL still uses the key/fob . . .
Shifter - worse problem, if you accidentally turn the ignition off with shifter in gear, you cannot get the key out. You still need to put the ignition to 'on', place shifter to P or N to get the key out (doh).
Nav - here the Acura shines, you can enter nav functions while in gear or in motion. However the IS gen V LCD screen is light years clearer and sharper than the TL. The Acura does not play video Dvds at all, good thing since the screen is so shabby . . .
Memory - Acura locks out the driver's memory buttons while in gear as well, however the memory buttons work when the ignition is off, the IS requires the ignition to be on. The Acura does not have memory settings for the passenger, so this point is mute. Also, the TL's tilt and telescope wheel is manual, so it is not tied to the memory settings like the IS.
Couple of observations with my IS:
You already know about the LPS settings for having all doors unlock by touching the drivers door.
You can use the override to enable your Nav functions, altho it requires either a '06 Nav disk or a hybrid disk with 5.1 firmware. Takes less than 10 seconds to enable this . . .
You already know that you can hack your ML/Nav to view Dvds while moving. I haven't yet, but I have found that my 4 yr olds enjoy watching the Nav screen almost as much as a movie (set to 300ft with POIs on), the voice prompts add extra entertainment value. Besides on trips over 30mins, my kids will pass out . . .
In short, I wouldn't trade a IS for a TL just for the Nav fuctionality . . .