just did the navi hack
08-13-07, 08:31 AM
#31
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I totally get why they lock out the driver's seat. It could certainly have a dramatic effect on the driver's ability to control the car. I can't for the life of me understand why they do the same for the passenger. For example - I programmed one of the buttons to lay the seat back for napping while riding shotgun on a long trip. When you drive long distance only stopping for fuel, there are times when you start the leg sitting upright and want to recline to rest then return to the upright position. Why shouldn't I be able to do that with presets? Call me lazy, but what's the point of having them if they don't deliver the thing they're meant to do while in motion?
[ASIDE]Of course, the next phase for this is restricting the seat adjustments. Imagine what will happen when someone with the seat fully reclined gets into an accident, gets injured or killed because they are "out of position," and sues an automaker for allowing the seat to put them out of position. I'm still amazed at how many people put their feet on the dash, right on top of the airbag. It's only a matter of time until this is also legislated into some kind of restriction.[/ASIDE]
Also - the no CallerID for an incoming call is idiotic. They don't want me to look at the nav screen for the caller info. Great. So I take my hand off the wheel, pick up the phone, focus on a much smaller screen, and determine who is calling before I press the button on the steering wheel to answer the call. How is that safer? I can't figure that out either.
Again, Lexus need to address these issues before I buy another unit from them. I'll be happy to buy aftermarket until then for more features while in motion, lower cost, cheaper updates, and more timely information.
All the whining about attention management is just that. Whining. Either you CAN manage your attention, or you can't. If you can't your insurance company will quickly adjust your rates to reflect your skill level. Requiring intervention to active features is a distraction. I AGREE is completely unnecessary. Just turn the unit on. I don't ever recall having an I AGREE screen on any of the Nav Aids we used on our WC-135s. Legislating this stuff is idiotic, but typical of our competing philosophies of what government should and shouldn't do for people.
[ASIDE]Of course, the next phase for this is restricting the seat adjustments. Imagine what will happen when someone with the seat fully reclined gets into an accident, gets injured or killed because they are "out of position," and sues an automaker for allowing the seat to put them out of position. I'm still amazed at how many people put their feet on the dash, right on top of the airbag. It's only a matter of time until this is also legislated into some kind of restriction.[/ASIDE]
Also - the no CallerID for an incoming call is idiotic. They don't want me to look at the nav screen for the caller info. Great. So I take my hand off the wheel, pick up the phone, focus on a much smaller screen, and determine who is calling before I press the button on the steering wheel to answer the call. How is that safer? I can't figure that out either.
Again, Lexus need to address these issues before I buy another unit from them. I'll be happy to buy aftermarket until then for more features while in motion, lower cost, cheaper updates, and more timely information.
All the whining about attention management is just that. Whining. Either you CAN manage your attention, or you can't. If you can't your insurance company will quickly adjust your rates to reflect your skill level. Requiring intervention to active features is a distraction. I AGREE is completely unnecessary. Just turn the unit on. I don't ever recall having an I AGREE screen on any of the Nav Aids we used on our WC-135s. Legislating this stuff is idiotic, but typical of our competing philosophies of what government should and shouldn't do for people.
08-13-07, 08:34 AM
#32
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no its the obvious, why the hell have a preset if you cant use it?
picture this, you get in the car, your passenger gets in and uses preset 2. by the time they are all seat belted in, realise the seat is not set to their preset location and i have already started driving, are you seriously asking me to pull over, put the car in park just so they can push 1 button?
why the hell even have presets if they never get used?
maybe i want to use mine to preset the seat a little forward to give a little more room for the rear passengers? another preset to move it back a little?
i can easily reach the preset button from the drivers side but the seat controls are a bit of a stretch.
if my wife drives the car we use a similar seat setting, if her remote isnt programmed (which it isnt) she will have to remember to select her preset before she drives away, usually after either of us gets in we realise the seat is not set correctly but pretty close a preset is what this is for and basically if you have to wait for a light to stop at to adjust it why do they have a preset in the first place.
maybe people who buy a lexus have no place to be at any particular time, can drive like they have no place to go and can sit in the driveway making sure to preset their destination on the nav before they leave, be sure everyone has their seat belts on and has selected their seat memory. watch a movie and wait for a few phone calls so they can see the caller ID show up?
for me, i get in and drive.. and from the moment i shift out of park and start rolling, half the features i paid for stop working!!!
its so damn agrivating im just about to take this 1 week old car to the dealer and get my money back, buy the acura TL type S right next door.
at least when i drove an acura everything worked all the time, no matter what driving, stopped, ect...
i understand safety, but good greif! so lexus doesnt want you to adjust anything look at anything or be able to touch anything while driving? i get the DVD while driving, and since they allow voice control why not allow all the navi functions to work by voice just like my acura?
in the acura by voice i could work absolutly EVERY feature by voice except the calendar and calculator but i could still operate thoes using the touch screen.
if you can ask for a resturant, why can you not ask for a hotel, gas station, ATM or Parking garage? why can these commands not be enabled by voice? you dont want me pushing buttons on the screen fine! ill use voice commands, but not in a lexus!
do the people that design these cars actually drive them? i think not, they drive an acura, because if they did drive a lexus and paid as much as we pay they would be pissed that half the toys they paid for are useless!!
picture this, you get in the car, your passenger gets in and uses preset 2. by the time they are all seat belted in, realise the seat is not set to their preset location and i have already started driving, are you seriously asking me to pull over, put the car in park just so they can push 1 button?
why the hell even have presets if they never get used?
maybe i want to use mine to preset the seat a little forward to give a little more room for the rear passengers? another preset to move it back a little?
i can easily reach the preset button from the drivers side but the seat controls are a bit of a stretch.
if my wife drives the car we use a similar seat setting, if her remote isnt programmed (which it isnt) she will have to remember to select her preset before she drives away, usually after either of us gets in we realise the seat is not set correctly but pretty close a preset is what this is for and basically if you have to wait for a light to stop at to adjust it why do they have a preset in the first place.
maybe people who buy a lexus have no place to be at any particular time, can drive like they have no place to go and can sit in the driveway making sure to preset their destination on the nav before they leave, be sure everyone has their seat belts on and has selected their seat memory. watch a movie and wait for a few phone calls so they can see the caller ID show up?
for me, i get in and drive.. and from the moment i shift out of park and start rolling, half the features i paid for stop working!!!
its so damn agrivating im just about to take this 1 week old car to the dealer and get my money back, buy the acura TL type S right next door.
at least when i drove an acura everything worked all the time, no matter what driving, stopped, ect...
i understand safety, but good greif! so lexus doesnt want you to adjust anything look at anything or be able to touch anything while driving? i get the DVD while driving, and since they allow voice control why not allow all the navi functions to work by voice just like my acura?
in the acura by voice i could work absolutly EVERY feature by voice except the calendar and calculator but i could still operate thoes using the touch screen.
if you can ask for a resturant, why can you not ask for a hotel, gas station, ATM or Parking garage? why can these commands not be enabled by voice? you dont want me pushing buttons on the screen fine! ill use voice commands, but not in a lexus!
do the people that design these cars actually drive them? i think not, they drive an acura, because if they did drive a lexus and paid as much as we pay they would be pissed that half the toys they paid for are useless!!
But--that's just me. I agree, not voiding my warranty is far more important to me than making every feature work exactly how I would like.
Actually, of all the inconveniences here, I think the worse is the caller ID lockout. They don't lock out radio station call numbers, or letters, and on some of the stations, they show what song is being played, even when you change the station on the satellite controls.
08-13-07, 08:38 AM
#33
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Actually, of all the inconveniences here, I think the worse is the caller ID lockout. They don't lock out radio station call numbers, or letters, and on some of the stations, they show what song is being played, even when you change the station on the satellite controls.
08-13-07, 08:45 AM
#34
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correct me if i am wrong, i havnt read the entire owners manuel but so far, i can only look for resturants, it will show icons and you can select one as a destination but you cannot see a list of the resturants unless your stopped. i used this feature a lot on the acura, look for mexican scroll through the list and fine one i want to go to, you also cannot view the information of any of the resturants to call one and see how long of a wait there is unless your stopped.
now assuming im right about only being able to search for a resturant, how about hotels? many times while taking a road trip we like to go and not make any plans, just plug in a destination and start driving, when we are hungry we look for nearby resturants, when tired we look for a hotel and call while in route to see if they have any vacant rooms available, i usually search by city in a city we will be driving through in say the next 20 minutes.
while you can pick an icon in a particular area you cannot get any info on it unless you enter it as a destination while moving.
in the acura i could scroll through the list and have the navigation send the number to the bluetooth like the lex does and dial the number, unfortunatly the lex wont allow you to do this while moving, can you tell me otherwise?
now assuming im right about only being able to search for a resturant, how about hotels? many times while taking a road trip we like to go and not make any plans, just plug in a destination and start driving, when we are hungry we look for nearby resturants, when tired we look for a hotel and call while in route to see if they have any vacant rooms available, i usually search by city in a city we will be driving through in say the next 20 minutes.
while you can pick an icon in a particular area you cannot get any info on it unless you enter it as a destination while moving.
in the acura i could scroll through the list and have the navigation send the number to the bluetooth like the lex does and dial the number, unfortunatly the lex wont allow you to do this while moving, can you tell me otherwise?
08-13-07, 10:23 AM
#36
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There is no threat of this thread being closed unless someone violates the Forum rules. So far, this is not the case. Trust me, the moderators are vigilant.
08-13-07, 10:34 AM
#37
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The fact is, this debate never gets settled, and never will be. For some, it's more important to be able to input addresses while driving; for others, it's not so important.
But--what should be recognized by all is that different people have different opinions about it. Everyone should really take this into account. While it seems silly that the passengers are locked out from watching DVDs while driving, there are drivers out there that would divert too much of their attention to the screen while driving as well. Same goes for inputting addresses--although it has been made clear that no CL members would do that, I can't say that I have confidence that all drivers would not be too distracted while driving and inputting an address.
Someone rear ended me (3 days after I put down my IS deposit) because she didn't see the traffic light was red, even though 6 or 7 cars were all stopped. She had to ask me if the light was red. I doubt she was inputting an address in her MDX--she was 3/4 of a mile from home. I don't think I want her adding to her driver distractions.
We're never all going to come to complete agreement. Feel free to use CL to vent your complaints, but at least recognize there are legitimate reasons why Lexus made the choices they did for these features.
But--what should be recognized by all is that different people have different opinions about it. Everyone should really take this into account. While it seems silly that the passengers are locked out from watching DVDs while driving, there are drivers out there that would divert too much of their attention to the screen while driving as well. Same goes for inputting addresses--although it has been made clear that no CL members would do that, I can't say that I have confidence that all drivers would not be too distracted while driving and inputting an address.
Someone rear ended me (3 days after I put down my IS deposit) because she didn't see the traffic light was red, even though 6 or 7 cars were all stopped. She had to ask me if the light was red. I doubt she was inputting an address in her MDX--she was 3/4 of a mile from home. I don't think I want her adding to her driver distractions.
We're never all going to come to complete agreement. Feel free to use CL to vent your complaints, but at least recognize there are legitimate reasons why Lexus made the choices they did for these features.
08-13-07, 10:54 AM
#38
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I think we should realize that there are two sides to every argument, and no one is dumb for taking a side in this. Bass Mech and others think we should have free reign over our systems since we did pay for them, while Evitzee and others like the fact that it's locked down for those on the road's safety. I would say that until it can be proven that having the Lexus IS navigation system unlocked causes more accidents, I'd like to have the functionality or at least have the option to have the functionality enabled while in motion. In the end we are responsible for our actions and have to bear the consequences of those actions. If I get in an accident while inputing a destination then so be it. If I crash while switching the radio station (which is still enabled while in motion) then so be it, it's my own fault. If Lexus is so worried about being sued, then really everything should be locked while in motion. No I am not justifying one bad behavior with another as someone pointed out before. I'm trying to find the motivation for Lexus doing this.
Again, I pose this question: how would someone that agrees with the navigation the way it is feel if they decide to prevent you from changing the radio station? How about locking out climate controls? The possibilities are endless, and it boils down to where do you draw the line between manufacturer and operator responsibility? We are essentially losing 10% of the car's functionality (based on cost, the intrinsic value will vary greatly from user to user) whenever we drive it.
Again, I pose this question: how would someone that agrees with the navigation the way it is feel if they decide to prevent you from changing the radio station? How about locking out climate controls? The possibilities are endless, and it boils down to where do you draw the line between manufacturer and operator responsibility? We are essentially losing 10% of the car's functionality (based on cost, the intrinsic value will vary greatly from user to user) whenever we drive it.
08-13-07, 12:01 PM
#39
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Well if McD's can be sued for $5mm+ for serving coffee that is too 'hot' and Starbux is being sued for $2mm+ for serving hot tea that is too 'hot', what does this say to any large corp trying to do business in the US ? Lexus is prolly being overly pro-active in this arena due to expensive lessons learned by their 'deep pockets' brethren. Ask Audi how much the transmission that mysteriously pops out of Park cost them in terms of lost sales and bad press. There are morons out there, and they have greedy but very clever lawyers. I don't condone Lexus for the safety nannies, but if it really chaffs my ****, they are ways around them (hacks, hybrids, override menus, etc, etc).
I won't go as far as Lobux and boycott buying another ToyCo nav, but Life is a series of options and trade offs. Sure I like the way I can use my Acura nav while moving, but that's about it, so I'm not going to trade-in my IS for a TL-S just to have this functionality (especially since I have the override firmware). You guys who want to jost with Lexus over safety nannies, have at it, maybe one day you'll make some real progress and force the #1 Car Co in the World to rethink their engineering and marketing (I won't be holding my breath). . .
I won't go as far as Lobux and boycott buying another ToyCo nav, but Life is a series of options and trade offs. Sure I like the way I can use my Acura nav while moving, but that's about it, so I'm not going to trade-in my IS for a TL-S just to have this functionality (especially since I have the override firmware). You guys who want to jost with Lexus over safety nannies, have at it, maybe one day you'll make some real progress and force the #1 Car Co in the World to rethink their engineering and marketing (I won't be holding my breath). . .
08-13-07, 12:31 PM
#40
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Well if McD's can be sued for $5mm+ for serving coffee that is too 'hot' and Starbux is being sued for $2mm+ for serving hot tea that is too 'hot', what does this say to any large corp trying to do business in the US ? Lexus is prolly being overly pro-active in this arena due to expensive lessons learned by their 'deep pockets' brethren. Ask Audi how much the transmission that mysteriously pops out of Park cost them in terms of lost sales and bad press. There are morons out there, and they have greedy but very clever lawyers. I don't condone Lexus for the safety nannies, but if it really chaffs my ****, they are ways around them (hacks, hybrids, override menus, etc, etc).
I won't go as far as Lobux and boycott buying another ToyCo nav, but Life is a series of options and trade offs. Sure I like the way I can use my Acura nav while moving, but that's about it, so I'm not going to trade-in my IS for a TL-S just to have this functionality (especially since I have the override firmware). You guys who want to jost with Lexus over safety nannies, have at it, maybe one day you'll make some real progress and force the #1 Car Co in the World to rethink their engineering and marketing (I won't be holding my breath). . .
I won't go as far as Lobux and boycott buying another ToyCo nav, but Life is a series of options and trade offs. Sure I like the way I can use my Acura nav while moving, but that's about it, so I'm not going to trade-in my IS for a TL-S just to have this functionality (especially since I have the override firmware). You guys who want to jost with Lexus over safety nannies, have at it, maybe one day you'll make some real progress and force the #1 Car Co in the World to rethink their engineering and marketing (I won't be holding my breath). . .
08-13-07, 12:59 PM
#41
This thread is fine and can continue, but there is a specific thread out there for those of you who want to debate safety features in our cars...
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=271106
Personally, I've disabled all the safety features that annoyed, me... But I will take into consideration the effort required when I buy my next car... (i.e. - It will hurt Lexus's chances of getting my money)
I mean, it was fun to do it once, and I'm glad that all the DIY's and so forth have encouraged others like the OP of this thread to do the hack, but it's still annoying that Lexus makes us spend 20 minutes or so to cut a few wires... Oh well, it's a small price to pay to fully enjoy our cars
08-13-07, 01:34 PM
#42
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Would anyone know for sure whether doing the navigation hack voids the warranty? Technically the hack doesn't really affect the unit itself, but the dealerships are quite good at denying warranty repairs since they are done at their discretion. I thought there was a law out there that said dealers have to honor the warranty if any subsystem modification didn't result in damaging the subsystem in question. For example if you add an aftermarket stereo system that doesn't necessarily void the warranty on the electrical system of the car (I don't think). Maybe someone out there can answer this better than I can. I just remember the thread where someone has been denied a warranty repair on their navigation unit due to the presence of this hack.
08-13-07, 03:42 PM
#43
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^^^ You don't have to do the hack. Create a hybrid Nav disk. Firmware 1550 or 1600 will allow you to override the Nav manually. Search for a thread by Technique, who created a hybrid Nav disk that works for '07 IS's . . .
08-13-07, 03:51 PM
#44
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That's what I did. It works great with 1600 firmware.
08-13-07, 04:49 PM
#45
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i suspect since the 08's dont require the press of the "I agree" button anymore mine will do that also with the new software version.
i know several people on the acura forums have managed to fully hack the software on the acura nav systems, in the sence they are doing things like making custom welcome screens graphics and the like, i dont imagine it would be lomng before someone figures out a way to burn their own DVD that totally removes all the annyoances at a software level.