neova

The ES350 is a luxury sedan, the IS250/350 is a sports sedan. So i was looking for a sport sedan. Like i said, other factors (money mostly) helped me decide that IS250 was the right choice for me given the circumstances at the time. I knew the compromise I had to make with this choice.

But the main point is, Lexus aspires to challenge BMW to make a better sport sedan than the 3-series, and while they've done well, it fell short in the handling department.

jdanon

I'm sure there's also some brand loyalty among consumers. I think you could tell people that the BMW blows up if it hits 70 mph and people would still buy them just to have that little blue and white circle emblem on the back of their cars. As far as quality of car goes, Lexus wins hands down, that is not even debatable, but is having that bit of performance or handling edge in the BMW worth it at the cost of a lower quality car? I've tried posing this question to the young BMW crowd here at work, and they have no real good answer as to what's so spectacular about a BMW over any other car.

I suspect a lot of it has to do with the image or status that comes with having a BMW. Living and driving every day in an urban environment renders speed, handling, or any other performance related metrics you can think of useless when your top speed is going to be 60 mph if you're lucky enough not to be sitting in traffic doing the stop and go thing on the highway. If you're not on a highway you're driving on straight roads with traffic lights every 300-500 feet and lots of pedestrian traffic. I guess I just don't know where some of you guys are driving your cars where some of the stuff people are nitpicking over is exposed. Call me crazy, but if I was going to nitpick, it would be over interior features which is the part I see and use the most.

Yay-Z

cosign, Exterior draws me in, but it is the interior that keeps me.

The lexus interior is what sold me finally. I have an IS250, so its pretty obvious Im not big on performance. I would have also taken the 328i, but I just couldnt warm up to that interior.

t.is350.h

iTrader: (3)

I don't know y you choose this car at the first place and complaint after that...you have the right to complaint, but complaint to yourself...no body making you to buy anything....

Swisha

I'm a bmw fan and forever will be, but one thing it lacks is interior design which haven't changed much since the early 90's. But like on every forum you see people switching from bmw to japanese and visa versa. Cause a single car manuf. can't please everybody so some trade offs are expected.

llamaboiz

HAHA yep i knew the BMW comparo would come up. Well then let me say this, NO it doesnt handle as well as a BMW, BUT it handles a hella lot better than most of the other cars on the road. Handles better than moms neon, dads caravan and my modded 89 5.0 mustang.

Heres something too, if you run a touge with a BMW in front and a IS in the back, by the end of the run would the BMW have pulled away so much as to consider it a 'win'? I dont think so...

jdanon

What does one mean by handling? If this is going to be some huge metric for comparing a BMW to a Lexus, there better be a definition for it that's quantifiable. Otherwise this is like arguing that the BMW has a shinier black paint than the Lexus -- it's purely a subjective thing with no definitive way to measure it. I wish people would speak in concrete terms and from personal experience instead of quoting some magazine article.

combfilter

iTrader: (3)

+1..............................

FiveOhNine

I think it's debatable. My BMW was better engineered than my Lexus; they used higher quality parts and put the entire package together better than my Lexus. The BMW was rock solid from day one where my Lexus often reminds me that it's a Toyota by a little groan here or a squeak there.

I honestly believe that my BMW was better engineered than my Lexus. Where I think the BMW was lacking was in the quality control on the assembly line. This is what make Japanese cars so reliable; they start with a good (not great) model, and build the exact same thing over and over and over again, with minimal faults.

The Germans (with a few exceptions) start with a great model and build 25% of them with minimal faults. It's the other 75% that kills me.

Joeb427

iTrader: (1)

A buddy of mine who owns a bodyshop told me he feels German cars are built the best body and hardware wise.

Bichon

While luxury has always been Lexus' core competency, the 2IS was promoted by both Lexus and the media as a new direction for Lexus: a sedan designed with the BMW 3 series in the cross-hairs, to attract a new demographic looking for a healthy dose of "sport" with their luxury. In fact it was the second place finish in the 35k sport sedan comparison in Car and Driver that got me to visit the Lexus showroom shortly after the IS350 was released.

"Don't mess with success" is definitely not the Toyota mantra. It's a company that relentlessly researches customer needs now and in the future, and endeavors to build the right vehicles to meet them. They don't always nail it on the first try, or even the second, but they eventually hit the nail squarely on the head, and that's why they've passed GM to become the number one automaker in revenue. Witness their attempts to crack the last bastion of Detroit supremacy: full size trucks. They've done the same thing with Lexus, refining their product mix through market research, growing the venture to be the top-selling luxury brand. I have no doubt that if Toyota's market research was to indicate that the best way to grow their market share in luxury cars is to build a better handling car than BMW, they'll muster the engineering resources needed to do it.

FiveOhNine

I think we are saying the same thing. I was responding to this:

Bichon

I know, I wasn't contradicting you, I was elaborating on your point.

FiveOhNine

Well, then high-five

weesped

iTrader: (8)

I compleaty agree I mean when u buy the car u should be aware of what it can do and how it handles so why complane about it after? I mean it would have been pretty easy to do a google on the is handleing and then you would u have been about to see the is isn't a 3 series. Andyou should have got the car based off of the possive points and you would have weighed all the pros a cons vs the other cars in this class or car. Idk that's just my 2 cents because I came into this knowing I wouldn't get euro handleing but I would get tech goodness and comfert so I'm happy. Btw sorry for typos my iphone change stupid words