Is350 Oil Confusion No More
12-18-07 | 10:28 PM
#31
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 11,030
Likes: 7
From: Windward, Oahu
Ok not to beat a dead horse BUT this topic of 'oil' pops up every few months as new ppl join *buy a new lex* and come here to post. This write up is by one of our CL members, sorry i forgot who wrote it up so i cant give credit where its due BUT i do remember hes from TX *of course 
*
I THINK this is from the synth vs dino thread:
Remember that many synthetic oils are NOT really PURE synthetic (examples are Mobil 1 and Castrol). A lawsuit was filed years ago and the courts decided that group III oils (petroleum based) could be used in synthetic oil’s base stock and still can be labeled synthetic. Mobil 1’s oils are still excellent oil and show very good UOAs (Used Oil Analysis). I use Amsoil 0w-20 (New), which is pure synthetic (group IV and V base stock). To answer the question about the differences between Dino and (Pure) synthetic oils;
Even though petroleum refining is an advanced science, small amounts of contaminants, such as sulfur and reactive hydrocarbons cannot be completely removed from petroleum, and end up in motor oil base stocks. Synthetics base stock are designed in a lab and therefore do not contain these contaminants. So right from the start petroleum oil is contaminated.
Petroleum oil molecules are of varying sizes. So, as a petroleum oil heats up, the smaller molecules begin to burn off. Deposits and sludge are left behind to coat the inside of your engine. In addition, as smaller particles burn off, the larger, heavier molecules are all that is left to protect the engine. Unfortunately, these larger particles do not flow nearly as well and tend to blanket the components of your engine which only exacerbates the heat problem as friction builds-up. Synthetic oils, on the other hand, because they are not purified, but rather designed within a lab for lubrication purposes, are comprised of molecules of uniform size and shape. Therefore, even if a synthetic oil does burn a little, the remaining oil has the same chemical characteristics that it had before the burn off. There are no smaller molecules to burn-off and no heavier molecules to leave behind. Bottom line is synthetics contain almost no contaminants compared to petroleum oils since they are not a refined product. As a result, if oil burn-off does occur, there are few, if any, contaminants left behind to leave sludge and deposits on engine surfaces.
Petroleum oils also contain paraffins (wax), they tend to thicken up considerably in cold temperatures. Additives are used to help keep the oil from thickening too much due to these waxy contaminants. Synthetic oils, on the other hand, contain no paraffins. Therefore, they need no additive to help with cold temperature operation. Moreover, even without the additives, synthetics flow at far lower temperatures than petroleum oils. Remember additives cause contamination!
Since synthetics contain no additives to aid with cold temperature flow, synthetics maintain their cold temperature flow characteristics for a long period of time. Additive depletion is not a factor in the cold temperature flow of synthetic oils. Synthetics do not thicken due to burn-off. So, this is not a factor in cold temperature flow either. Of course, the obvious result is that you don't need to change synthetic oil as often to regain adequate cold temperature flow.
Water causes acids to be created within the oil and corrosion will begin within your engine. So, there are additives in the oil which are designed to combat these acids. Synthetics contain higher quality and a higher quantity of these additives in order to properly neutralize these acids for a longer period of time. These additives do deplete over time, but it takes longer with synthetic oils than with petroleum oils.
Here's a couple important facts; Additives are also used to keep oil contamination in check and to keep it from damaging your engine. These additives keep potentially wear causing contaminants suspended and contained in your oil so they don't cause excessive wear or deposit build-up within your engine before your filter can remove them. Synthetics have higher additive treat rates than petroleum oils (in addition to using higher quality, more expensive, additives), so they can perform this contaminant control function for a much longer period of time than a petroleum oil can.
To control acids the Total Base Number (TBN) describes the acid neutralization ability of an oil, with higher TBN oils providing longer lasting acid neutralization. Synthetics nearly always have higher TBN values than petroleum oils do. The result: longer and better acid neutralization capability allowing for extended drain use.
Every single aspect (which there are many) of what oil provides for your engine is better in synthetic oil, including how long you can use the oil before contamination is a problem. The most important difference is the pour rate. This one aspect is the biggest contributor to engine ware. This is how long it takes the oil to reach vital parts of the engine during start-up (especially when cold). You wouldn’t believe the difference between dino and synthetic. The same difference in this one aspect is typical of ALL the other aspects in dino and synthetic.
*I THINK this is from the synth vs dino thread:
Remember that many synthetic oils are NOT really PURE synthetic (examples are Mobil 1 and Castrol). A lawsuit was filed years ago and the courts decided that group III oils (petroleum based) could be used in synthetic oil’s base stock and still can be labeled synthetic. Mobil 1’s oils are still excellent oil and show very good UOAs (Used Oil Analysis). I use Amsoil 0w-20 (New), which is pure synthetic (group IV and V base stock). To answer the question about the differences between Dino and (Pure) synthetic oils;
Even though petroleum refining is an advanced science, small amounts of contaminants, such as sulfur and reactive hydrocarbons cannot be completely removed from petroleum, and end up in motor oil base stocks. Synthetics base stock are designed in a lab and therefore do not contain these contaminants. So right from the start petroleum oil is contaminated.
Petroleum oil molecules are of varying sizes. So, as a petroleum oil heats up, the smaller molecules begin to burn off. Deposits and sludge are left behind to coat the inside of your engine. In addition, as smaller particles burn off, the larger, heavier molecules are all that is left to protect the engine. Unfortunately, these larger particles do not flow nearly as well and tend to blanket the components of your engine which only exacerbates the heat problem as friction builds-up. Synthetic oils, on the other hand, because they are not purified, but rather designed within a lab for lubrication purposes, are comprised of molecules of uniform size and shape. Therefore, even if a synthetic oil does burn a little, the remaining oil has the same chemical characteristics that it had before the burn off. There are no smaller molecules to burn-off and no heavier molecules to leave behind. Bottom line is synthetics contain almost no contaminants compared to petroleum oils since they are not a refined product. As a result, if oil burn-off does occur, there are few, if any, contaminants left behind to leave sludge and deposits on engine surfaces.
Petroleum oils also contain paraffins (wax), they tend to thicken up considerably in cold temperatures. Additives are used to help keep the oil from thickening too much due to these waxy contaminants. Synthetic oils, on the other hand, contain no paraffins. Therefore, they need no additive to help with cold temperature operation. Moreover, even without the additives, synthetics flow at far lower temperatures than petroleum oils. Remember additives cause contamination!
Since synthetics contain no additives to aid with cold temperature flow, synthetics maintain their cold temperature flow characteristics for a long period of time. Additive depletion is not a factor in the cold temperature flow of synthetic oils. Synthetics do not thicken due to burn-off. So, this is not a factor in cold temperature flow either. Of course, the obvious result is that you don't need to change synthetic oil as often to regain adequate cold temperature flow.
Water causes acids to be created within the oil and corrosion will begin within your engine. So, there are additives in the oil which are designed to combat these acids. Synthetics contain higher quality and a higher quantity of these additives in order to properly neutralize these acids for a longer period of time. These additives do deplete over time, but it takes longer with synthetic oils than with petroleum oils.
Here's a couple important facts; Additives are also used to keep oil contamination in check and to keep it from damaging your engine. These additives keep potentially wear causing contaminants suspended and contained in your oil so they don't cause excessive wear or deposit build-up within your engine before your filter can remove them. Synthetics have higher additive treat rates than petroleum oils (in addition to using higher quality, more expensive, additives), so they can perform this contaminant control function for a much longer period of time than a petroleum oil can.
To control acids the Total Base Number (TBN) describes the acid neutralization ability of an oil, with higher TBN oils providing longer lasting acid neutralization. Synthetics nearly always have higher TBN values than petroleum oils do. The result: longer and better acid neutralization capability allowing for extended drain use.
Every single aspect (which there are many) of what oil provides for your engine is better in synthetic oil, including how long you can use the oil before contamination is a problem. The most important difference is the pour rate. This one aspect is the biggest contributor to engine ware. This is how long it takes the oil to reach vital parts of the engine during start-up (especially when cold). You wouldn’t believe the difference between dino and synthetic. The same difference in this one aspect is typical of ALL the other aspects in dino and synthetic.
12-18-07 | 11:59 PM
#33
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 11,030
Likes: 7
From: Windward, Oahu
*Plz save your comments on Zmax i have exp with it when i had my Supra and im a firm beliver*
12-19-07 | 12:13 AM
#34
Super Moderator
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,293
Likes: 276
From: NJ
You might want to do a little more research before making the statement posted above here. Lexus does have a six month or 7,500 mile oil change interval if the car is not being driven in dusty conditions or pulling a trailer and so on. Check it out. I copied their recommendation directly off their web site and posted on this forum. It says what it says............period and end of story.
Your Lexus should receive scheduled maintenance every 5,000 miles or every 6 months, depending on your circumstances and driving habits.
Use the following chart to determine your maintenance schedule.
* 30 Days or 1,000 miles[1].
* 6 months or 5,000 miles[1].
* 12 months or 10,000 miles.
* 18 months or 15,000 miles.
* 24 months or 20,000 miles.
* 30 months or 25,000 miles.
* 36 months or 30,000 miles.
* 42 months or 35,000 miles.
* 48 months or 40,000 miles.
* 54 months or 45,000 miles.
* 60 months or 50,000 miles.
* 66 months or 55,000 miles.
* 72 months or 60,000 miles.
* 78 months or 65,000 miles.
* 84 months or 70,000 miles.
* 90 months or 75,000 miles.
* 96 months or 80,000 miles.
* 102 months or 85,000 miles.
* 108 months or 90,000 miles.
* 114 months or 95,000 miles.
* 120 months or 100,000 miles.
* 126 months or 105,000 miles.
* 132 months or 110,000 miles.
* 138 months or 115,000 miles.
* 144 months or 120,000 miles.
* 150 months or 125,000 miles.
* 156 months or 130,000 miles.
* 162 months or 135,000 miles.
* 168 months or 140,000 miles.
* 174 months or 145,000 miles.
* 180 months or 150,000 miles.
There is also a link to a PDF that matches the documents that came with the car; it also shows a 5,000 mile interval only. Also, the maintenance reminder in the car is based on a 5,000 mile interval, and according to the dealer, it can't be changed.
12-19-07 | 08:00 AM
#36
Moderator
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,752
Likes: 28
From: Utah
Ok not to beat a dead horse BUT this topic of 'oil' pops up every few months as new ppl join *buy a new lex* and come here to post. This write up is by one of our CL members, sorry i forgot who wrote it up so i cant give credit where its due BUT i do remember hes from TX *of course *
I THINK this is from the synth vs dino thread:
Remember that many synthetic oils are NOT really PURE synthetic (examples are Mobil 1 and Castrol). A lawsuit was filed years ago and the courts decided that group III oils (petroleum based) could be used in synthetic oil’s base stock and still can be labeled synthetic. Mobil 1’s oils are still excellent oil and show very good UOAs (Used Oil Analysis). I use Amsoil 0w-20 (New), which is pure synthetic (group IV and V base stock). To answer the question about the differences between Dino and (Pure) synthetic oils;
Even though petroleum refining is an advanced science, small amounts of contaminants, such as sulfur and reactive hydrocarbons cannot be completely removed from petroleum, and end up in motor oil base stocks. Synthetics base stock are designed in a lab and therefore do not contain these contaminants. So right from the start petroleum oil is contaminated.
Petroleum oil molecules are of varying sizes. So, as a petroleum oil heats up, the smaller molecules begin to burn off. Deposits and sludge are left behind to coat the inside of your engine. In addition, as smaller particles burn off, the larger, heavier molecules are all that is left to protect the engine. Unfortunately, these larger particles do not flow nearly as well and tend to blanket the components of your engine which only exacerbates the heat problem as friction builds-up. Synthetic oils, on the other hand, because they are not purified, but rather designed within a lab for lubrication purposes, are comprised of molecules of uniform size and shape. Therefore, even if a synthetic oil does burn a little, the remaining oil has the same chemical characteristics that it had before the burn off. There are no smaller molecules to burn-off and no heavier molecules to leave behind. Bottom line is synthetics contain almost no contaminants compared to petroleum oils since they are not a refined product. As a result, if oil burn-off does occur, there are few, if any, contaminants left behind to leave sludge and deposits on engine surfaces.
Petroleum oils also contain paraffins (wax), they tend to thicken up considerably in cold temperatures. Additives are used to help keep the oil from thickening too much due to these waxy contaminants. Synthetic oils, on the other hand, contain no paraffins. Therefore, they need no additive to help with cold temperature operation. Moreover, even without the additives, synthetics flow at far lower temperatures than petroleum oils. Remember additives cause contamination!
Since synthetics contain no additives to aid with cold temperature flow, synthetics maintain their cold temperature flow characteristics for a long period of time. Additive depletion is not a factor in the cold temperature flow of synthetic oils. Synthetics do not thicken due to burn-off. So, this is not a factor in cold temperature flow either. Of course, the obvious result is that you don't need to change synthetic oil as often to regain adequate cold temperature flow.
Water causes acids to be created within the oil and corrosion will begin within your engine. So, there are additives in the oil which are designed to combat these acids. Synthetics contain higher quality and a higher quantity of these additives in order to properly neutralize these acids for a longer period of time. These additives do deplete over time, but it takes longer with synthetic oils than with petroleum oils.
Here's a couple important facts; Additives are also used to keep oil contamination in check and to keep it from damaging your engine. These additives keep potentially wear causing contaminants suspended and contained in your oil so they don't cause excessive wear or deposit build-up within your engine before your filter can remove them. Synthetics have higher additive treat rates than petroleum oils (in addition to using higher quality, more expensive, additives), so they can perform this contaminant control function for a much longer period of time than a petroleum oil can.
To control acids the Total Base Number (TBN) describes the acid neutralization ability of an oil, with higher TBN oils providing longer lasting acid neutralization. Synthetics nearly always have higher TBN values than petroleum oils do. The result: longer and better acid neutralization capability allowing for extended drain use.
Every single aspect (which there are many) of what oil provides for your engine is better in synthetic oil, including how long you can use the oil before contamination is a problem. The most important difference is the pour rate. This one aspect is the biggest contributor to engine ware. This is how long it takes the oil to reach vital parts of the engine during start-up (especially when cold). You wouldn’t believe the difference between dino and synthetic. The same difference in this one aspect is typical of ALL the other aspects in dino and synthetic.
*I THINK this is from the synth vs dino thread:
Remember that many synthetic oils are NOT really PURE synthetic (examples are Mobil 1 and Castrol). A lawsuit was filed years ago and the courts decided that group III oils (petroleum based) could be used in synthetic oil’s base stock and still can be labeled synthetic. Mobil 1’s oils are still excellent oil and show very good UOAs (Used Oil Analysis). I use Amsoil 0w-20 (New), which is pure synthetic (group IV and V base stock). To answer the question about the differences between Dino and (Pure) synthetic oils;
Even though petroleum refining is an advanced science, small amounts of contaminants, such as sulfur and reactive hydrocarbons cannot be completely removed from petroleum, and end up in motor oil base stocks. Synthetics base stock are designed in a lab and therefore do not contain these contaminants. So right from the start petroleum oil is contaminated.
Petroleum oil molecules are of varying sizes. So, as a petroleum oil heats up, the smaller molecules begin to burn off. Deposits and sludge are left behind to coat the inside of your engine. In addition, as smaller particles burn off, the larger, heavier molecules are all that is left to protect the engine. Unfortunately, these larger particles do not flow nearly as well and tend to blanket the components of your engine which only exacerbates the heat problem as friction builds-up. Synthetic oils, on the other hand, because they are not purified, but rather designed within a lab for lubrication purposes, are comprised of molecules of uniform size and shape. Therefore, even if a synthetic oil does burn a little, the remaining oil has the same chemical characteristics that it had before the burn off. There are no smaller molecules to burn-off and no heavier molecules to leave behind. Bottom line is synthetics contain almost no contaminants compared to petroleum oils since they are not a refined product. As a result, if oil burn-off does occur, there are few, if any, contaminants left behind to leave sludge and deposits on engine surfaces.
Petroleum oils also contain paraffins (wax), they tend to thicken up considerably in cold temperatures. Additives are used to help keep the oil from thickening too much due to these waxy contaminants. Synthetic oils, on the other hand, contain no paraffins. Therefore, they need no additive to help with cold temperature operation. Moreover, even without the additives, synthetics flow at far lower temperatures than petroleum oils. Remember additives cause contamination!
Since synthetics contain no additives to aid with cold temperature flow, synthetics maintain their cold temperature flow characteristics for a long period of time. Additive depletion is not a factor in the cold temperature flow of synthetic oils. Synthetics do not thicken due to burn-off. So, this is not a factor in cold temperature flow either. Of course, the obvious result is that you don't need to change synthetic oil as often to regain adequate cold temperature flow.
Water causes acids to be created within the oil and corrosion will begin within your engine. So, there are additives in the oil which are designed to combat these acids. Synthetics contain higher quality and a higher quantity of these additives in order to properly neutralize these acids for a longer period of time. These additives do deplete over time, but it takes longer with synthetic oils than with petroleum oils.
Here's a couple important facts; Additives are also used to keep oil contamination in check and to keep it from damaging your engine. These additives keep potentially wear causing contaminants suspended and contained in your oil so they don't cause excessive wear or deposit build-up within your engine before your filter can remove them. Synthetics have higher additive treat rates than petroleum oils (in addition to using higher quality, more expensive, additives), so they can perform this contaminant control function for a much longer period of time than a petroleum oil can.
To control acids the Total Base Number (TBN) describes the acid neutralization ability of an oil, with higher TBN oils providing longer lasting acid neutralization. Synthetics nearly always have higher TBN values than petroleum oils do. The result: longer and better acid neutralization capability allowing for extended drain use.
Every single aspect (which there are many) of what oil provides for your engine is better in synthetic oil, including how long you can use the oil before contamination is a problem. The most important difference is the pour rate. This one aspect is the biggest contributor to engine ware. This is how long it takes the oil to reach vital parts of the engine during start-up (especially when cold). You wouldn’t believe the difference between dino and synthetic. The same difference in this one aspect is typical of ALL the other aspects in dino and synthetic.
Koz
12-19-07 | 03:57 PM
#40
01-24-08 | 11:39 AM
#42
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (10)
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 13,441
Likes: 1,064
From: Under an IS F since 2008
As has been said already, either one would be fine, and you're more than welcome to put whatever oil you want in your car. However, with the morning temps in Pasadena around 37 degrees lately when I start my car in the morning, I'm really glad I followed the Lexus TSB, that I personally found on TIS, and used 5W-20. I couldn't care less if the dealers are bothering to read the TSB's. That only tells me not to go to that particular dealership for service. I would always follow a TSB over what any dealer tells me. TSB's are instructions from Lexus corporate - what oil a dealership uses is strictly up to that particular dealership.
Javier
Javier
Hey Javy (or anyone else)
So I'm getting ready to do my 1st oil change and I wanted to clear the air, so to speak...
My 2008 Oil Cap is still labeled with 5w30..
I normally use Mobil One regular Oil (the 5k mi option)
Is there any reason I should consider the 5w20??
Any reason I should consider Synthetic?
Also, I just researched a few threads and would love to know the most current part number for the Oil Filter...
Thanks
Joe Z
01-24-08 | 11:50 AM
#43
Driver School Candidate
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 34
Likes: 0
From: CA
My dealership (Newport Lexus) has not heard of any TSB on using 5/20. This is the second time I've asked and I get the same answer. Nothing about any change. They use 5/30 Castrol. Me? I use BMW 5/30 full synthetic. Why BMW? Cause it's formulated by Castrol and is approved by BMW for extended oil changes up to 15,000 miles. Insofar as Lexus recommends either 7,500 miles or six months.........under normal use; I'll be using that as my guideline.
01-24-08 | 01:16 PM
#44
Hey Javy (or anyone else)
So I'm getting ready to do my 1st oil change and I wanted to clear the air, so to speak...
My 2008 Oil Cap is still labeled with 5w30..
I normally use Mobil One regular Oil (the 5k mi option)
Is there any reason I should consider the 5w20??
Any reason I should consider Synthetic?
Also, I just researched a few threads and would love to know the most current part number for the Oil Filter...
Thanks
Joe Z
So I'm getting ready to do my 1st oil change and I wanted to clear the air, so to speak...
My 2008 Oil Cap is still labeled with 5w30..
I normally use Mobil One regular Oil (the 5k mi option)
Is there any reason I should consider the 5w20??
Any reason I should consider Synthetic?
Also, I just researched a few threads and would love to know the most current part number for the Oil Filter...
Thanks
Joe Z
1) The fewer oil changes I have to do, the better. Less mess to wipe up, less time spent, etc...
2) the fewer times I have to open the oil fill cap, the less chance there is something foreign getting in,
3) I'm not a big tree hugger or anything, but disposing of 1/2 the used oil I'd use with dino oil is eco-friendly.
As far as the type of oil, the Lexus TSB states that "ILSAC GF-4 5W-20 is recommended due to its superiority in terms of fuel economy, engine protection, and cold starting performance." So, if you want better protection and gas mileage, use 5W-20.
Here's another analysis by our own Lobuxracer:
Heavier weight oil = more fluid drag. More fluid drag = higher operating temperatures in the bearings, more fluid friction between the piston and cylinder wall and more heat to remove from the resulting higher friction. Finally, it also means poorer fuel economy than if you used the lighter oil.
When NASCAR was allowed to run a qualifying engine, they all ran 0w oil for more power. It wasn't great for engine life, but they also ran those engines without working cooling systems to save power as well.
Heavy oils are great for turbos. They are not great for anything else. Mobil 1 5w-20 is spec'd at 9.1 Cst. The tribologists on BITOG say 10 Cst is ideal. 5W-30 and 10w-30 are all more than 10 Cst no matter who's oil it is. Lexus specifies 5w-20 for the 2GR and 0w-20 for a host of Toyota engines in Toyota and Scion products after MY 2006. I just looked at this yesterday because someone on a Scion board was asking about it.
You will not lose warranty coverage for running 5w-20 in any MY2006 or later Lexus/Toyota/Scion product. You will lose gas mileage by running a heavier oil. I run 5w-20 and I would not recommend running a heavier oil unless you are driving at extended high speed (over 180 km/h - 100 mph) for more than 5 minutes at a time. JMHO.
When NASCAR was allowed to run a qualifying engine, they all ran 0w oil for more power. It wasn't great for engine life, but they also ran those engines without working cooling systems to save power as well.
Heavy oils are great for turbos. They are not great for anything else. Mobil 1 5w-20 is spec'd at 9.1 Cst. The tribologists on BITOG say 10 Cst is ideal. 5W-30 and 10w-30 are all more than 10 Cst no matter who's oil it is. Lexus specifies 5w-20 for the 2GR and 0w-20 for a host of Toyota engines in Toyota and Scion products after MY 2006. I just looked at this yesterday because someone on a Scion board was asking about it.
You will not lose warranty coverage for running 5w-20 in any MY2006 or later Lexus/Toyota/Scion product. You will lose gas mileage by running a heavier oil. I run 5w-20 and I would not recommend running a heavier oil unless you are driving at extended high speed (over 180 km/h - 100 mph) for more than 5 minutes at a time. JMHO.
Javier
01-24-08 | 07:46 PM
#45
That TSIB says 5W-20 applies to JZ series engines. LOL....
Run that on the 2JZ with a good launch on 1.5 bar and you'll have a spun rod bearing or crank walk. I need reliability. I'm sticking to Castrol Syntec 5W30 in mine (Sorry. but I'm against Amsoil. 30K oil changes?!). I run 5W50 on the JZ engines and they have minimal wear on either the engine internals, valvetrain or turbocharger CHRA.
Run that on the 2JZ with a good launch on 1.5 bar and you'll have a spun rod bearing or crank walk. I need reliability. I'm sticking to Castrol Syntec 5W30 in mine (Sorry. but I'm against Amsoil. 30K oil changes?!). I run 5W50 on the JZ engines and they have minimal wear on either the engine internals, valvetrain or turbocharger CHRA.