mikeho

**NOTE** IS250M isn't a new designation of any kind. It's a classification I came up with because I got tired of saying IS250 6MT or IS250 6SPD. IS250M is simple, shorter, and more elegant. That being said, let's get to the heart of this thread.

This is a call out to all IS250M owners. I really want to start a campaign on getting Lexus to fix the problematic manual transmission (MT) that we have. There have been countless threads on "notchiness", grinding, difficulty in getting into gear. We each have gone individually to our own dealerships of choice to no avail. Considering that the IS250M is less than 1% of all US-bound IS models, no wonder why we can't get Lexus' attention.

We need to combine our efforts. That means that we need to work together as owners to do the following:
1. Identify the characteristics/symptoms of the problem.
2. Identify the scenarios in which the problem occurs.
3. Identify "friendly" dealerships in regions that are convenient for owners.
4. Collect evidence (post on this thread).
5. Collectively schedule appointments at dealerships from #3 where our cars are in the shop at the same time for comparison purposes.
6. Present problem to dealership and potentially Lexus Corporate.

#5 and #6 are important. I've gotten the runaround because they claim that they don't have anything to compare to (another IS250M), that my car has high mileage (41K). I know that Lexus is here to make money, but they need to consider the long-term benefits of customer loyalty. They should address this issue with seriousness and do things to help us. Let us help them by giving them as much information as we can.

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I wanted to write this thread because I came across the issue more prominently today and I wanted some other owners to verify and check my findings.

Characteristics/Symptoms
Grinding when shifting from 1st to 2nd. Notchiness when trying to get into gear from neutral.

Scenario
My oil was due for changing and the weather here in NorCal was bad, so I had to put it off for a few days. I opted to not drive my car and leave it in the driveway. It sat in the same spot over 4 days (Friday to Monday). I changed the oil yesterday afternoon. This morning, I notice the notchiness was the worst it's ever been. No matter how slow I tried to shift from 1st to 2nd and even with the clutch pedal completely depressed, I was getting grinding from 1st to 2nd. Higher gears were fine.

Suspicions
I'm thinking it's a problem with the viscosity of the transmission fluid and how the transmission sits. I'm no mechanic, so I don't know how it works, but I notice that the problem is more prominent in cold weather (30-40 F nights), especially in early mornings when I start driving. During the day (driving to lunch, after work), the problem isn't as bad and sometimes doesn't show up at all. I'm wondering if the optimal transmission oil level is lower (according to specifications) than it should be (according to reality) or the viscosity of the transmission fluid is higher (thicker). The former indicates that certain gears may not be covered until the transmission is spinning fast enough to coat the gears in fluid; the latter indicates that the fluid isn't doing a good job lubricating the gears.

(Unscientific) Experiment
I need help determining whether my suspicions are correct. In order to do that, I would like to hear from other IS250M owners.
1. Get a feel for the relative notchiness of the car at your current usage. Note the differences between morning, during the day and at night.
2. If you can, take other transportation (another car, public) and leave your car sitting (driveway, garage) for three days/nights.
3. Each night, write down the temperature forecast for that night. Each morning, write down the temperature reported by your car (don't turn on the engine, but turn on power by pushing the start button twice and looking at the temperature display) or by an external thermometer.
4. On the fourth day, drive your car normally. See if there are any differences in the transmission (better/worse).

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If we notice a trend and we can all work together on this, let's get it fixed!

I live in the NorCal Bay Area. I'm recommending the Magnussen's of Fremont dealership because I heard that they have the best service in the area. I'm not close to the dealership (I live in Palo Alto), but am willing to go somewhere where they'll listen if we present our case.

I have to take my car in for warranty service soon anyway. I can have them test my theory as well, but it'd be better to have more IS250Ms in there to compare.

I will also post in the NorCal forum, but I think this idea will benefit all MT owners.

kickin8

iTrader: (1)

I tried a thread like that before....but anyway......sign me up!

https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=272979

my idea back then is not pushing them to replace tranny/clutch, I just want LEXUS corp aware that they do have problems (design flaw) for the 6MT owners and maybe we can get them to extend the transmission parts warranty so we dont have to worry about our transmission down the road.....

mikeho

That was a good idea, but the intention of this thread is to gather information as specific as we can and not just call Lexus Corp, but bring in all our cars at once so they can verify. The problem with calling is that the reports are disjointed and each one may simply be classified as an individual problem. Most techs and service managers have no idea about problems that exist, that more than one owner has them. We're so few and far in between that they don't even remember if another IS250M owner had brought their car in for service a month ago and reported the same problem.

A sad, but true statement: If we can convince the dealerships to replace everyone's transmission under warranty and have them bill Lexus Corporate, then Lexus will notice. As long as each dealership passes it off as "that's just how it is", it doesn't matter how many calls you make to the headquarters. A complaint is just a complaint. You have to hit their wallet for them to be worried.

gsrthomas

iTrader: (1)

What about the rest of the world, asian, european, etc, etc countries.

Most of them are Manual. Wouldn't you think that Lexus knows or doesnt know the issues with the trannies?

I wonder if people in the European or Asian market complain about this manual tranny like the Americans do?

Maybe Lexus just thinks Americans can't drive manual cars?? j/k

kickin8

iTrader: (1)

good point.....maybe we should gather all 250M owners drive to Mag Lex and have them verify the problem.....!

hahaha......

06-IS250

I would totally be down, But i am in canada. I will report with issues at a later date, Busy at this time.

But I would like to add I have the same problems.

CrazyIS

I have similar issues with my is250m but I live in socal. I am willing to take my car in the same day as other owners if it is Lexus of Glendale or Key's

mikeho

Ha.. maybe. I know that there are US-spec cars and European-spec cars. They have different model numbers and different engines. I'm not surprised if the transmission was slightly different to match up to the engines.

We should. And I'm serious about it. Then Magnussen will at least recognize that there is a problem.

Thanks. I hope to have more people from Canada to coordinate.

Of course. We'll try to find some people in SoCal to find a good dealership for that too.

If you know people who own IS250Ms, PM them. Get them on this thread. If we don't get a strong following in every region, I'm hoping to get a strong following in one region. That way, other owners can take this thread, go to their own dealership and say "Call up [Magnussen's of Fremont]. They'll verify with you that 15 owners with IS250Ms visited with problems and were able to have their issues reproduced and addressed." Hopefully, that will allow that local dealership to recognize the problem too and fix the owner's issue. Everyone goes home happy!

Recluse

I would settle for this too. When I got my clutch replacement, I dealt with both Lexus corporate and the parts/service district manager for the SF Bay Area. It would be interesting to see if Lexus would still deny any record of issues if other members called......

Recluse

The idea of a mass appointment at one dealership is an interesting one......I guess that would alleviate the "we have nothing to compare your car to" issue....

That said, I don't really have this to any great degree:

"Grinding when shifting from 1st to 2nd. Notchiness when trying to get into gear from neutral."

I find the shifting in general to be a little notchy, but I do not have any grinding (knock on e-wood).

I do, however, as I have noted numerous time, have a very noisy clutch.

iialcii

iTrader: (3)

Im in ! you lead I follow, I have other priorities but, I do notice the notchiness form first to 2nd and grinding every so often.

awol707

Writing this off of my Iphone, so my apologies for the mess. I live in the Bay Area and would be down for meeting up at a dealership. I have similar problems with my 6MT. I have gone into detail about the issues in other threads of my own. I am going to a Nor Cal meet in late February, and I know that there are going to be a few other 6MT. I will bring up to them what you are striving to get organized. I hope this will resolve the issues instead of Coorporate Lexus fixing the problems for future models.

kickingras

New 2008 here in Ottawa, Canada.
No grinding, but 1st to 2nd gear is definately notchy. Thought it was just me with a new car, but now I am thinking otherwise. I have my 1500km service on Monday. I will bring it up with the service manager. I am starting to have regrets I didn't get the automatic.

Carl

Recluse

I mentioned this in another 6MT thread.....When I got my IS, I thought that 1-2 was really notchy as well. But I eventually realized that the IS really wanted the 1-2 shift to be STRAIGHT back, and I was putting some pressure to the left. So, I stopped doing that, and the shifts are now quite a bit smoother. YMMV.

BTW, overseas reviews of the 6MT models (both the IS250 and the IS220d) pretty much criticize the performance of the transmission as well, so I doubt the one we get over here is any different. And that makes it especially appalling that Lexus would think that this transmission, which is embarrassing for a car of this price and class, was suitable to compete in the world marketplace, which has a much higher take rate on manuals than the USA does.

mikeho

If you can, try following the steps that I outlined to see if it exacerbates the problem. The grinding for me only happened when I let the car sit for a few days.

We need to be scientific with this and find what will consistently reproduce or increase the frequency of the problem.

I'm hoping to be able to make the NorCal meet, so we can talk more then. For those not in the area, see if you can follow the steps. The more data points we have the better.

"I have notchiness and grinding with my MT" is not going to turn any heads. "When I start the car and the temp outside is below 40F, it's difficult to get into gear and I notice grinding from 1st to 2nd with the clutch fully depressed" will get attention. Especially when it's multiplied by 40 owners.