IS - 2nd Gen (2006-2013) Discussion about the 2006+ model IS models

Dealership refused my TSIB on "engine knock & rattle noise" Help plz ..

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Old 03-01-08, 01:58 PM
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Scythe
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Exclusiv what part of NY are you in?? I'm about 40 minutes north of the city and take the drive up to the Lexus of Bridgeport for my service.. they're pretty good there - very nice, and my only issue was when the technician told me i couldn't get the warning light to go off until i bought sensors on my aftermarket rims... he was a little snotty about it probably because he didnt like that i exhanged the lexus rims for something cheaper/less performance oriented, and then was complaining that the car wouldnt accept them... but i took that as my fault not his lol
Old 03-01-08, 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Scythe
Exclusiv what part of NY are you in?? I'm about 40 minutes north of the city and take the drive up to the Lexus of Bridgeport for my service.. they're pretty good there - very nice, and my only issue was when the technician told me i couldn't get the warning light to go off until i bought sensors on my aftermarket rims... he was a little snotty about it probably because he didnt like that i exhanged the lexus rims for something cheaper/less performance oriented, and then was complaining that the car wouldnt accept them... but i took that as my fault not his lol
Yeah, but you gotta expect that with any dealer. They usually AREN'T cool to the fact that we like to mod our cars & change factory specs etc. I live in Brooklyn currently, and refuse to take my car to Bay Ridge or any local dealers because they're pretty much worthless! I've been since taking my car to Rallye.
Old 03-01-08, 04:30 PM
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yeah exactly.. he kinda gave me the look - what the oem's and a working display werent good enough? and i think was happy to tell me that the tradeoff for my aftermarket rims was having to look at the Check System message every ride..

Where's the Rallye dealership? i live in Mount Kisco.. anywhere close?
Old 03-01-08, 04:54 PM
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Originally Posted by carchitect
^^ I have to disaggree.

I've replaced timing belts on several vehicles. The cam gear install is very involved. I've done a few. I lost count how many timing belts I've done but they are so much easier than the cam gear replacement on the IS & GS models. To make matters worse, Lexus pays 6.0hrs to do what takes everyone a whole day to accomplish and one little mistake and the engine goes. That maybe the reason why the thread starter's dealer isn't doing this TSIB.
I can't count the number of bike and car engines I've worked on. If it were replacing a cam drive chain on most bike engines, sure it would be a PITA because you have to go all the way down to splitting the cases - there is nothing of the sort on these engines. Heads stay on, crank stays in, and a clever mechanic doesn't even need to pull the cams. The belts on a 2JZ are only simpler because there are only two sprockets and one belt. The 2GR and 4GR have two main drive chains and two subchains. They're still not difficult, and there are plenty of alignment marks to help make sure you don't botch the job. If it were so tricky, the engine wouldn't be mass produced.

6.0 is not unreasonable for someone with task familiarity. We both know shop rate can be beaten, it's just a matter of how many times you do the job. The first clutch I did in a Scion tC took me 6.5 hours. The last one I did (including LW flywheel swap) took 2.8. I wouldn't suggest I could beat shop time on the first pass, but I'm pretty sure I'd beat it on the second one, and kill it by the third.
Old 03-02-08, 08:06 AM
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darrelld
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How often do you have this noise?

I have the same problem and mentioned it to my dealer at my 20000 maintenance. The noise does not occur for me on every start and the dealer says they cannot reproduce. No mention by the dealer of this TSIB and I had to find it on my own.

Does anyone know the long term consequence of not getting this fixed?

The engine sounds like metal to metal grinding when this occurs similar to a garbage disposal.
Old 03-02-08, 08:33 AM
  #21  
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Originally Posted by lobuxracer
I can't count the number of bike and car engines I've worked on. If it were replacing a cam drive chain on most bike engines, sure it would be a PITA because you have to go all the way down to splitting the cases - there is nothing of the sort on these engines. Heads stay on, crank stays in, and a clever mechanic doesn't even need to pull the cams. The belts on a 2JZ are only simpler because there are only two sprockets and one belt. The 2GR and 4GR have two main drive chains and two subchains. They're still not difficult, and there are plenty of alignment marks to help make sure you don't botch the job. If it were so tricky, the engine wouldn't be mass produced.

6.0 is not unreasonable for someone with task familiarity. We both know shop rate can be beaten, it's just a matter of how many times you do the job. The first clutch I did in a Scion tC took me 6.5 hours. The last one I did (including LW flywheel swap) took 2.8. I wouldn't suggest I could beat shop time on the first pass, but I'm pretty sure I'd beat it on the second one, and kill it by the third.
I consider myself very efficient working on vehicles. The last MKIV clutch I did took me less than 45 minutes. Thats including driving the car in and back out of my lift. I've worked on several vehicles and am well aware of the difficulty levels on practically any engine out there. With that being said, for me to say there is no way to complete the cam gear install in 6.0hrs also means it can't be done. I don't care how many you've done to practice on it just can't be done in 6.0hrs. Myself and several others have come to the same conclusion on it. The engine is a very high interferance engine on top of that and there is a lot of room for error. The bulletin is not accurate on how the main chain should be removed and there needs to be a revision for the how its done properly. I've already sent a TAS case# on it and nothing came from it. Honestly, the time it takes to remove the GR engine's cams with the engine in the car, I can remove and disassemble the 2JZ enigne on any factory vehicle it comes in. The GR engine is that much more difficult to work on. In the factory, the GR enigne's cams and crank are lined up using the colored links. When you are servicing the cam gears, the links are ignored. The cam gears and cam cap marks also never line up from the slack in the chains and the guides. The timing cover can't be removed w/o removal of the engine so you have to remove the cams to replace the cam gears since there isn't any room for the cam gears to slide off the cams. The rocker arms just dangle there and are not mounted securely on these GR engines. Installing the cams alone are nerve wrecking since the sweet spot for the right bank isn't lined up with TDC. The additional issues you face with the are holding the main chain to prevent it falling and jumping the timing on the crank gear. With all these factors, I'm shocked that the bulletin didn't have us remove the engine to service the cam gears by removing the timing cover.
Old 03-02-08, 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by darrelld
How often do you have this noise?

I have the same problem and mentioned it to my dealer at my 20000 maintenance. The noise does not occur for me on every start and the dealer says they cannot reproduce. No mention by the dealer of this TSIB and I had to find it on my own.

Does anyone know the long term consequence of not getting this fixed?

The engine sounds like metal to metal grinding when this occurs similar to a garbage disposal.
Tell them to let the engine run for at least a half hour to get the oil fully warmed up. Mine only made the noise consistently when the oil was at full temperature. They had no trouble reproducing the noise consistently after following this advice.

I never noticed the issue on a cold start. Ever. Only on hot starts.
Old 03-02-08, 11:06 AM
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Originally Posted by carchitect
I consider myself very efficient working on vehicles. The last MKIV clutch I did took me less than 45 minutes. Thats including driving the car in and back out of my lift. I've worked on several vehicles and am well aware of the difficulty levels on practically any engine out there...
Agreed the 2JZ is dead simple to work on and the 2GR is ugly. I'll take an inline over a V any day for simplicity of maintenance. I see your point about the factory timing set up - lots of kindergarten colors. I wasn't aware the front cover won't come off with the engine in the car - is it a space problem? Regardless, it's a poor decision on Toyota's part. Apparently they assumed no one would ever need to remove it in service unless the engine was down for overhaul. My apologies for doubting the complexity of the task.
Old 03-02-08, 11:25 AM
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@ Gordo, would u mind letting us know waht dealership u go to?

@ Sam yeaaa bro i take mine to Rallye too, the ones closer to me are not trustworthy at all
Old 03-02-08, 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by lobuxracer
Tell them to let the engine run for at least a half hour to get the oil fully warmed up. Mine only made the noise consistently when the oil was at full temperature. They had no trouble reproducing the noise consistently after following this advice.

I never noticed the issue on a cold start. Ever. Only on hot starts.
Only happens to me on a cold start and then its infrequent. Did the problem get progressively worse or start and remain consistent?
Old 03-02-08, 12:31 PM
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Consistent, and never on a cold start.
Old 03-02-08, 05:49 PM
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6.0 hours on a warranty work is alot of work usually warranty work pays half or a quarter of the regular pay. If it be a normal paying job maybe it'll pay 12hours so I dont think its simple task. I've worked at a shop where a tech has to pull out the motor on the 2006 avalon with the same 2gr motor just to do the front seal campaign it took him 2 days for that job thats pay i belive 6 hours.
Old 03-04-08, 03:21 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by FrankyJ
@ Gordo, would u mind letting us know waht dealership u go to?
PM me for their name.
My car hasn't been making the noise at all during start ups. Although my oil level is way above the Max level on the dip stick. The oil level is above the twisted point of the dip stick, is that over filling??

I'm going back to dealer tomorrow for the new ML subwoofer installation.
Old 03-04-08, 10:27 PM
  #29  
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So uh, get it replaced only when it happens often? I get it once in a while, ever since I got my car back in Oct 05, it only happened like 6 times.
Old 03-05-08, 09:11 AM
  #30  
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Print out the official TSIB papers, and tell them the noise is still audible. If they don't want to honor this, go to Lexus Corporate. Believe me when I say Lexus Corporate takes claims seriously, within a week or two they will send a representative to that dealership and inspect the vehicle and parties included.


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