Originally Posted by Evitzee

^^^^^^ For goodness sake, give it up! All your 'analysis' isn't worth a damn for the simple reason you can't equate dollars spent with sound quality. If you think you can spend the ML dollars privately and get equal, or better, sound than go ahead and do it. But stop the trolling.

Originally Posted by IS350jet

You just don't get it, do you! I can appreciate your passion, though. Have some more coffee.

Originally Posted by Reyngel

I think I get it just fine. I see you have no response to the numbers I just through at you?

Originally Posted by SpaceCadet

Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't the ML system comes with ML speakers, not Pioneer? In which case, it would be replacing ALL with better speakers, not just adding one center speaker.

Originally Posted by Reyngel

The Pioneer equipment is highly regarded according to audio enthousiasts. ML is good, too. But neither are "elite."

Originally Posted by SpaceCadet

Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't the ML system comes with ML speakers, not Pioneer? In which case, it would be replacing ALL with better speakers, not just adding one center speaker.

Originally Posted by IS350jet

The only component in the entire ML system that is ML is the amp. Although the speakers are not actually manufactured by Mark Levinson, they are an upgrade from the standard system.

Reyngel, I'll try to explain this as easily as I can.

I'm looking for a brand new IS250.

I'm considering the Mark Levinson upgrade.

Should I do it? I mean, after all, it is $752!

Hmm, I'm thinking about it.

My good friend says "Dude!! don't do it, with the $752 you'll save not getting ML we can go aftermarket and make your stock system sound way better than ML"

I look at my friend and say "Really? for $752 you can make the standard system sound better than the ML? Really? I mean, really?

How?

Originally Posted by Reyngel

I'm not saying you shouldn't get it, or that Mark Levinson sucks.

As I first stated way back at the beginning, I just wanted to play devil's advocate.


The fact is,

-The stock system sounds great
-The ML system sounds great
-An aftermarket system could sound great

For $752, go for it. I would.





...just don't get it because people trick you into thinking that you can't have just as great of a system via the aftermarket.


Good luck!

Originally Posted by Reyngel

Uh, that's my point. lol.

You can't get a credit. So that's why the "show me a $752 secondary option" is a ridiculous argument. People are saying that you can't get 14, 15 speakers, etc, for $752, so the ML upgrade is worth every penny. But it's an inappropriately inflated claim, because NO ONE is getting a 15 speaker system for $752. They're only paying for the difference between the two.

Do you actually think I meant you could tell Lexus to credit you? If so, then maybe that's the disconnect, heh.

Originally Posted by SpaceCadet

ML not elite???? o boy......

Originally Posted by Reyngel

Okay, look... you're just not understanding how it works.


And I didn't want to go do all this research, but whatever... here:


First off, to measure whether the value of the ML upgrade is a bargain in terms of monetary value, one must first calculate the worth of the stock system. Next, one must calculate the value of the ML system. And finally, one must subtract the value of the stock system from the value of the ML system. If that number is greater than the cost of the ML upgrade, which I guess is $752, then the ML is indeed a bargain.

I do not know how much the stock system is technically worth. But okay, so, there are what, 13 speakers, including a main subwoofer? The stock system is, I believe close to 200 total watts of power. The stock system has two woofers, one in each rear door, that are absent in the ML system.

And the ML system is 14 speakers, including a main subwoofer, right? The ML system is close to 300 total watts of power. And while the ML system does not have a third woofer speaker in each of the rear doors like stock system, it does have channel speakers, one in the front and two on the back deck. This is what makes the "surround sound." It has nothing to do with the type of speakers, but rather the placement of them.

So what exactly are you paying for?

If you opt to get the ML option, you end up paying for a few things:

-One additional center channel speaker
-Two rear deck speakers, BUT, at a loss of the two woofer speakers that are found in the stock system's rear doors
-100 watts of total additional power
-Installation(done at the factory, technically free to you)
-4 year warranty(again, technically free to you since it's part of the car as a whole)

And that's it.

You're not getting a DVD changer, as a few people have claimed in this thread. For that, you need to have the NAV package, which is an additional $3,000. So you're stuck with the exact same CD changer that the stock steup has.

Okay, so how is the worth calculated?

Well, let's first look at what you're paying for when you get the ML upgrade.



-One additional 2.6" center speaker, 25watts

Based on a quick check on an audio enthousiast forum, here is a Pioneer TS-CX7, with more than twice the power of the ML center channel speaker, for $74:

http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_...r+TS-CX7.html#


-Two rear deck 2.6" speakers, 25watts each

Here's a pair of ones I found people recommending, $54:

http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_...TR350-CXi.html


-100 watts of total additional power

You can't technically buy watts, obviously. So the way you figure out the value of this is by approximating the value of the stock speakers, then approximate the value of ML's speakers, and then go from there.

The stock IS system has four 1" tweeters, 25watts each. The ML system also has four 1" tweeters, but at only 20watts each. So the power of the tweeters is actually LESS than the stock system. So by adding the ML upgrade, you pay for less power in the tweeters(will be made up elsewhere, though). But, just to make things easier, let's GIVE the ML system's tweeters the extra power that the stock's tweeters have and call it even. Okay? This cancels it out from the total worth.

The stock IS system has four 2.6" midrange speakers, 21watts each. The ML system also has four midrange speakers, but they're each 25watts each, and two of the four(rear doors) are 4" instead of the 2.6".

Here is a pair of 4" Pioneers for $29:......