Leaded or Unleaded??
07-21-08, 09:36 PM
#31
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07-21-08, 10:14 PM
#32
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I think you need to be a little more clear exactly what your question is.
Is it possible? Yes.
Is it advisable? No.
A number of folks have told you that your will ruin your catalytic converters using leaded gasoline. This is because if fuel with lead content is burnt there will be a residue of lead which can damage the catalytic converter.
The inverse is something you may be thinking of - old cars that are meant to run leaded fuel have softer engine components and need to be rebuilt with sodium lined valves and hardened components and they have problems running unleaded. They run, but will wear down quickly.
You should really try google, not a lot of people here on CL are going to have direct experience with leaded gas usage in Yemen. You can learn there may also be side effects you would not consider otherwise.
http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasc...9/gen99615.htm
Another item which may / may not be an issue. In the 'old days' when US was switching to and selling both leaded and unleaded, the pump nozzle was different sized on unleaded pumps and the leaded nozzle would not fit in the gas intake of an unleaded car.
Is it possible? Yes.
Is it advisable? No.
A number of folks have told you that your will ruin your catalytic converters using leaded gasoline. This is because if fuel with lead content is burnt there will be a residue of lead which can damage the catalytic converter.
The inverse is something you may be thinking of - old cars that are meant to run leaded fuel have softer engine components and need to be rebuilt with sodium lined valves and hardened components and they have problems running unleaded. They run, but will wear down quickly.
You should really try google, not a lot of people here on CL are going to have direct experience with leaded gas usage in Yemen. You can learn there may also be side effects you would not consider otherwise.
http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasc...9/gen99615.htm
The Unites States and most other countries switched from leaded to unleaded
fuel years ago. The lead additive, tetraethyllead, retarded "preignition"
in gasoline engines. Preignition causes engines to run rough, and to not
shut off when the key is turned off. The suppression of preignition is
measured by the gasoline's "octane rating". A good high-octane gasoline
allows a standard engine to run smoothly. Leaded gasoline also protected
some older car engines from wearing down by covering soft engine parts with
lead-containing material.
There are two major problems with using leaded fuel. 1) Lead is extremely
toxic, and causes mental retardation in children. Lead oxide from car
exhaust accumulates in soil near roads, and children can get it on their
hands from playing outside. They then ingest it, and it causes its damage.
2) Leaded gasoline ruins automobile catalytic converters. As a result of
these two problems, lead in gasoline has been banned in the U.S. Other
additives, such as methyl-tert-butyl ether (which is about to be banned),
had to be used to improve gasoline's octane rating.
fuel years ago. The lead additive, tetraethyllead, retarded "preignition"
in gasoline engines. Preignition causes engines to run rough, and to not
shut off when the key is turned off. The suppression of preignition is
measured by the gasoline's "octane rating". A good high-octane gasoline
allows a standard engine to run smoothly. Leaded gasoline also protected
some older car engines from wearing down by covering soft engine parts with
lead-containing material.
There are two major problems with using leaded fuel. 1) Lead is extremely
toxic, and causes mental retardation in children. Lead oxide from car
exhaust accumulates in soil near roads, and children can get it on their
hands from playing outside. They then ingest it, and it causes its damage.
2) Leaded gasoline ruins automobile catalytic converters. As a result of
these two problems, lead in gasoline has been banned in the U.S. Other
additives, such as methyl-tert-butyl ether (which is about to be banned),
had to be used to improve gasoline's octane rating.
07-22-08, 06:26 AM
#33
Have you heard of people being fined $10,000 for using leaded race gas on the streets? Yes, it is illegal, but I highly doubt people get pulled over for using race gas. I can see it maybe happening in ****-CA, but not anywhere else since the proper emissions equipment is necessary to detect leaded gas.
The law is pointless, as these cars will be driving on the earth at some point. What does it matter if it is on the street or at a race track?
There is a reason why there isn't a law against gas stations selling leaded gas. Or else it would only be sold at the track.
The law is pointless, as these cars will be driving on the earth at some point. What does it matter if it is on the street or at a race track?
There is a reason why there isn't a law against gas stations selling leaded gas. Or else it would only be sold at the track.
It's legal to sell bullets, it's not legal to fire them into random people in the streets.
Likewise it's legal to sell leaded gasoline, it's not legal to use it on a street-driven vehicle.
Both illegal activities result in a sort of lead poisoning.
I admit you're more likely to get caught in the first case but they're both illegal.
I'm not sure your "Sure it's illegal but you probably won't get caught" is a real strong argument to be making.
Only reason I reiterated it was because the previous post was trying to say "I know people who run leaded in their supras and it's perfectly legal" and that's just not true if they're driving on the street.
The pumps are supposed to have stickers indicating it's not legal for street use.
The attendant at the station is supposed to verify you're only dispensing it into a container, not a vehicle you're driving...and is supposed to call the police if you DO dispense it into a vehicle you are driving.
Now, I'm sure that virtually never happens, but I -have- heard of the occasional attendant being on the ball enough to check for a container and at least once I have heard of the cops being called on someone dispensing it directly into a car at the pump.
So you likely won't get caught, absolutely... but don't fool yourself into doubting it's illegal (and carries a pretty huge penalty if you're the poor sucker unlucky enough to get caught).
Folks in the farm states will understand a similar issue with the tax-free diesel fuel that it's illegal to run in on-road vehicles. It's a significant cost savings, as long as you don't get caught.
07-22-08, 08:22 AM
#34
Super Moderator
It should be physically impossible to pump leaded fuel directly into a car designed for unleaded. The fuel delivery nozzle on an unleaded pump and the fuel filler neck on the car are both a smaller diameter than those intended for leaded fuel - the leaded nozzle won't fit into an unleaded filler neck.
07-22-08, 08:37 AM
#35
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You made it sound like leaded gasoline was not for sale anymore and can't be found anywhere in the US. When in fact it is sold legally in the United States. Technically it is illegal to run on the public roads, but this law is rarely enforced and serves no purpose in protecting the public since it is on such a small scale.
This is what I said:
It should be physically impossible to pump leaded fuel directly into a car designed for unleaded. The fuel delivery nozzle on an unleaded pump and the fuel filler neck on the car are both a smaller diameter than those intended for leaded fuel - the leaded nozzle won't fit into an unleaded filler neck.
07-22-08, 10:56 AM
#36
Use the 83 unleaded with a heavy does of octane booster on each tank? Will you have reliable source to get a good quality octane booster from?
Honestly, though, I am not confident in 'octane' boosters to begin with.
Honestly, though, I am not confident in 'octane' boosters to begin with.
07-22-08, 09:55 PM
#39
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No leaded gasoline. Your oxygen sensors will die and your engine will either run very poorly or not at all. Service life on an O2 sensor with leaded fuel is 50 hours. With unleaded fuel it is 1500+ hours.
I've also seen issues with valve seats designed and manufactured for unleaded fuel getting a build up in street service.
I wouldn't do it.
If your octane in Yemen is rated by motor, 83 might be OK, but most likely will be a little short. Europe uses research (as does Japan) so the numbers are bigger.
The way octane is measured is the same around the world. The way gasoline is marketed is different, so different countries have different numbers for what is mostly the same thing. For the most part, premium is premium no matter what the number at the pump says, but in some places there is a lack of control so you may get something decent and you may not. Check with the Yemeni laws on selling motor fuel to get a better idea of what to expect.
I've also seen issues with valve seats designed and manufactured for unleaded fuel getting a build up in street service.
I wouldn't do it.
If your octane in Yemen is rated by motor, 83 might be OK, but most likely will be a little short. Europe uses research (as does Japan) so the numbers are bigger.
The way octane is measured is the same around the world. The way gasoline is marketed is different, so different countries have different numbers for what is mostly the same thing. For the most part, premium is premium no matter what the number at the pump says, but in some places there is a lack of control so you may get something decent and you may not. Check with the Yemeni laws on selling motor fuel to get a better idea of what to expect.
07-23-08, 07:17 AM
#40
Lexus Champion
No leaded gasoline. Your oxygen sensors will die and your engine will either run very poorly or not at all. Service life on an O2 sensor with leaded fuel is 50 hours. With unleaded fuel it is 1500+ hours.
I've also seen issues with valve seats designed and manufactured for unleaded fuel getting a build up in street service.
I wouldn't do it.
If your octane in Yemen is rated by motor, 83 might be OK, but most likely will be a little short. Europe uses research (as does Japan) so the numbers are bigger.
The way octane is measured is the same around the world. The way gasoline is marketed is different, so different countries have different numbers for what is mostly the same thing. For the most part, premium is premium no matter what the number at the pump says, but in some places there is a lack of control so you may get something decent and you may not. Check with the Yemeni laws on selling motor fuel to get a better idea of what to expect.
I've also seen issues with valve seats designed and manufactured for unleaded fuel getting a build up in street service.
I wouldn't do it.
If your octane in Yemen is rated by motor, 83 might be OK, but most likely will be a little short. Europe uses research (as does Japan) so the numbers are bigger.
The way octane is measured is the same around the world. The way gasoline is marketed is different, so different countries have different numbers for what is mostly the same thing. For the most part, premium is premium no matter what the number at the pump says, but in some places there is a lack of control so you may get something decent and you may not. Check with the Yemeni laws on selling motor fuel to get a better idea of what to expect.
07-23-08, 07:39 AM
#42
Super Moderator
Even if the octane of Yemeni premium is sufficient, I believe he'll still be in trouble. From what I've read, the Middle East doesn't have the low-sulfur fuels required by Toyota's direct injection engines. That's why they sell the IS300, which has conventional port injection, in that region.
07-23-08, 07:57 AM
#43
Super Moderator
That's right on the A/F sensors, I was waiting for someone to bring that up.
I will tell you where I have seen leaded gas in action, and then only at the track.
At my 1/4 mile track back in Mexico, we used to sell a very high octane leaded gas, a full tank would cost you about $170 USD, made by Sunoco. Regularly, we would have people with all types of vehicles run leaded gas, Neon SRT-4s, Civics, Malibus and even the famed VW Beetle (most were turbocharged) that is a staple of Mexican cars. Now some people had vehicles that they towed to the track on flatbeds, but some of these people that vehicles that were daily drivers.
In Mexico City and the surrounding environs we had emissions testing that was required twice a year and it is very restrictive (you can't bribe your way through this system anymore).
Most of the people who ran their cars would show up nearly empty on gas and then load up about 1/4 tank of the leaded stuff and by the end of the night they were near the bottom of the tank and filled up at the Pemex station on the corner. I asked many of these drivers if they had any issues or check engine lights. Most suprisingly didn't as this was something they only did every once in a while, not every weekend. Now a few jokers ran this stuff more often, and they indeed had cat and A/F sensor issues that required some costly work. Some used to try to get out of doing the work by registering in another Mexican state, but this program http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoy_No_Circula was recently reworked as of July 1st of this year, and even foreign-plated vehicles (that included me) are now severely restricted from driving in the Mexico City metropolitan area.
I heard much what lobuxracer had mentioned, about 50 hours for an a/f sensor on leaded gas. The owner of the track had always advised those running it never to run it more than once or twice unless you wanted to buy new sensors and a new cat.
P.S. Leaded gasoline known as Nova used to be sold in Mexico at one time but was slowly phased out.
I will tell you where I have seen leaded gas in action, and then only at the track.
At my 1/4 mile track back in Mexico, we used to sell a very high octane leaded gas, a full tank would cost you about $170 USD, made by Sunoco. Regularly, we would have people with all types of vehicles run leaded gas, Neon SRT-4s, Civics, Malibus and even the famed VW Beetle (most were turbocharged) that is a staple of Mexican cars. Now some people had vehicles that they towed to the track on flatbeds, but some of these people that vehicles that were daily drivers.
In Mexico City and the surrounding environs we had emissions testing that was required twice a year and it is very restrictive (you can't bribe your way through this system anymore).
Most of the people who ran their cars would show up nearly empty on gas and then load up about 1/4 tank of the leaded stuff and by the end of the night they were near the bottom of the tank and filled up at the Pemex station on the corner. I asked many of these drivers if they had any issues or check engine lights. Most suprisingly didn't as this was something they only did every once in a while, not every weekend. Now a few jokers ran this stuff more often, and they indeed had cat and A/F sensor issues that required some costly work. Some used to try to get out of doing the work by registering in another Mexican state, but this program http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoy_No_Circula was recently reworked as of July 1st of this year, and even foreign-plated vehicles (that included me) are now severely restricted from driving in the Mexico City metropolitan area.
I heard much what lobuxracer had mentioned, about 50 hours for an a/f sensor on leaded gas. The owner of the track had always advised those running it never to run it more than once or twice unless you wanted to buy new sensors and a new cat.
P.S. Leaded gasoline known as Nova used to be sold in Mexico at one time but was slowly phased out.
07-23-08, 08:55 AM
#44
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Well ...Leaded gas is not available in the States. It was phased out in the mid80's..for the use of catalytic converters on our cars..btw is why you should use unleaded gas or else its destroys the converter and for obvious heath reasons why US banned the use of lead in fuel. But I think you can still buy leaded gas in Mexico and maybe some parts of Eastern Europe and some 3rd world countries. Besides lead was used to aid in counter knock in combustion process....but we do have octaine increase that is more efficient then lead additives. Do some gas stations you know have lead or unleaded gas??? Does Bc still offer this choice??
http://www.airimpacts.org/documents/...inGasoline.pdf
Although, i dont have facts on the "COMPLETE" phase out of selling leaded gasoline in mexico, i can assure you i believe they dont sell leaded gasoline there either hahahha. Although mexico has some rough areas, its no different than the ghettos in atlanta , detriot ,NY , or LA. Mexico is a very industrialized and beautiful country, i would say they arent a third world country but a 2nd world country (if that term exists lol) strugling to become a first world country. I have been there once a year for the past 25 years of my life, im 27 lol but i have never seen any gas station ever sell leaded gasoline. I think when they talk about south america i tend to think of the very poor third world countries south of mexico. Anyways i thought id share that article and my two cents on mexico. :-) you guys should check out cancun and puerto vallarta!
07-23-08, 09:15 AM
#45
Super Moderator
here is a cool 23pg article on the BAN of Leaded gasoline worldwide.
http://www.airimpacts.org/documents/...inGasoline.pdf
Although, i dont have facts on the "COMPLETE" phase out of selling leaded gasoline in mexico, i can assure you i believe they dont sell leaded gasoline there either hahahha. Although mexico has some rough areas, its no different than the ghettos in atlanta , detriot ,NY , or LA. Mexico is a very industrialized and beautiful country, i would say they arent a third world country but a 2nd world country (if that term exists lol) strugling to become a first world country. I have been there once a year for the past 25 years of my life, im 27 lol but i have never seen any gas station ever sell leaded gasoline. I think when they talk about south america i tend to think of the very poor third world countries south of mexico. Anyways i thought id share that article and my two cents on mexico. :-) you guys should check out cancun and puerto vallarta!
http://www.airimpacts.org/documents/...inGasoline.pdf
Although, i dont have facts on the "COMPLETE" phase out of selling leaded gasoline in mexico, i can assure you i believe they dont sell leaded gasoline there either hahahha. Although mexico has some rough areas, its no different than the ghettos in atlanta , detriot ,NY , or LA. Mexico is a very industrialized and beautiful country, i would say they arent a third world country but a 2nd world country (if that term exists lol) strugling to become a first world country. I have been there once a year for the past 25 years of my life, im 27 lol but i have never seen any gas station ever sell leaded gasoline. I think when they talk about south america i tend to think of the very poor third world countries south of mexico. Anyways i thought id share that article and my two cents on mexico. :-) you guys should check out cancun and puerto vallarta!
Gasoline that was sold at my 1/4 mile track is leaded Sunoco racing gasoline, http://www.sunocoinc.com/site/Consum...ditionalFuels/