Will Lexus ever make a manual IS350?
#17
Lexus Test Driver
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2) Not a different kind of buyer. Look at the IS... Its no secret that Lexus specifically targetted the 3-series as their primary competition.
3) The IS250's MT is cheaper than the AT as well... not sure what your point is.
#19
Lexus Fanatic
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It's illegal to coast in neutral in most places by the way- but my auto seems to move between neutral and drive at least as fast as I can work a clutch.
Modern autos are faster, more efficient, and do a better job than you do shifting.
I can't figure out what's "fun" about getting worse results with more effort (a manual)
Modern autos are faster, more efficient, and do a better job than you do shifting.
I can't figure out what's "fun" about getting worse results with more effort (a manual)
#21
1) It doesnt sell well....because its an IS250 MT. If it were an IS350MT it would sell.
2) Not a different kind of buyer. Look at the IS... Its no secret that Lexus specifically targetted the 3-series as their primary competition.
3) The IS250's MT is cheaper than the AT as well... not sure what your point is.
2) Not a different kind of buyer. Look at the IS... Its no secret that Lexus specifically targetted the 3-series as their primary competition.
3) The IS250's MT is cheaper than the AT as well... not sure what your point is.
2) Yes, it is a different kind of buyer. BMW people that buy a 6-speed are pure sporting enthusiasts willing to sacrifice some comfort and convenience for the best handling. Lexus IS owners are sacrificing some handling and sportiness for a more comfortable ride.
3) I know the MT is cheaper than the AT, but it's almost, if not, totally, impossible to get an MT in anything besides base-base car.
You can argue about demand all you want, but the fact is that Premium package 250's spend about 20 - 45 days on the ground, and MT 250's spend anywhere from 6 months to a year.
Nobody wants them, at least not in any significant number.
#22
Lexus Test Driver
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1) No, it doesn't sell well because your typical Lexus client has zero interest in a manual transmission.
2) Yes, it is a different kind of buyer. BMW people that buy a 6-speed are pure sporting enthusiasts willing to sacrifice some comfort and convenience for the best handling. Lexus IS owners are sacrificing some handling and sportiness for a more comfortable ride.
3) I know the MT is cheaper than the AT, but it's almost, if not, totally, impossible to get an MT in anything besides base-base car.
You can argue about demand all you want, but the fact is that Premium package 250's spend about 20 - 45 days on the ground, and MT 250's spend anywhere from 6 months to a year.
Nobody wants them, at least not in any significant number.
2) Yes, it is a different kind of buyer. BMW people that buy a 6-speed are pure sporting enthusiasts willing to sacrifice some comfort and convenience for the best handling. Lexus IS owners are sacrificing some handling and sportiness for a more comfortable ride.
3) I know the MT is cheaper than the AT, but it's almost, if not, totally, impossible to get an MT in anything besides base-base car.
You can argue about demand all you want, but the fact is that Premium package 250's spend about 20 - 45 days on the ground, and MT 250's spend anywhere from 6 months to a year.
Nobody wants them, at least not in any significant number.
2) BMW owners are now "Pure sport enthusiests"? Ridiculous.
3) I already stated that no one wants a IS250 MT. Not sure why you keep bringing that up.
#23
Lexus Champion
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Anyway I picked up my new F a week ago, and I luv it. It's my first automatic in over 20 years. It's also my first 4 door, ever! Do I wish it was a manual, yep I do. Can I live with this, I guess, since I have already chosen to. The paddles can be entertaining. The car is awesome, and I'm sure I'll get used to the 8AT. I'm also back in the Lexus fold, which feels great. There really is a difference in the experience.
I might also add, I've been an auto enthusiast all my life. I used to go to the showroom when I was a little kid and poor over brochures. That was my leisure reading. I did some drag racing in my 20s, and I am a BIG NASCAR fan today. I'm probably what you might call, an aggressive driver.
Again, probably not your typical buyer, but that's my story, and I'm stickin' to it.
Lou
Last edited by flowrider; 12-16-08 at 06:35 AM.
#24
1) No. That's the entire point of those cars. But they represent such a tiny portion of overall sales that there is no reason to disrupt the efficiency of the manufacturing plant to make cars that will just sit on the dealer lots.
2) Yes. BMW owners tend to value performance and handling over quiet and smooth.
Believe what you want, but I talk to people every day about these cars.
#25
Lexus Test Driver
iTrader: (1)
Let me try and answer the first question. Am I typical? Probably not. I am a 70 year old retired white male, who has owned manual transmission cars all his life. My wife's cars have always been auto. Our GMC Sierra is a 5MT. Back in 1993 I bought an SC300 5MT, a very rare car indeed. I traded it in 2003 for an Infiniti G35 Coupe, 6MT. I modded that car, but I always missed my Lexus. A month ago I took my wife to buy an ES350. While at the dealers I made the mistake requesting a test drive in their demo ISF, big mistake on my part, I couldn't get the darn thing out of my mind. I did not go there to buy a car for my self, honest.
Anyway I picked up my new F a week ago, and I luv it. It's my first automatic in over 20 years. It's also my first 4 door, ever! Do I wish it was a manual, yep I do. Can I live with this, I guess, since I have already chosen to. The paddles can be entertaining. The car is awesome, and I'm sure I'll get used to the 8AT. I'm also back in the Lexus fold, which feels great. There really is a difference in the experience.
I might also add, I've been an auto enthusiast all my life. I used to go to the showroom when I was a little kid and poor over brochures. That was my leisure reading. I did some drag racing in my 20s, and I am a BIG NASCAR fan today. I'm probably what you might call, an aggressive driver.
Again, probably not your typical buyer, but that's my story, and I'm stickin' to it.
Lou
Anyway I picked up my new F a week ago, and I luv it. It's my first automatic in over 20 years. It's also my first 4 door, ever! Do I wish it was a manual, yep I do. Can I live with this, I guess, since I have already chosen to. The paddles can be entertaining. The car is awesome, and I'm sure I'll get used to the 8AT. I'm also back in the Lexus fold, which feels great. There really is a difference in the experience.
I might also add, I've been an auto enthusiast all my life. I used to go to the showroom when I was a little kid and poor over brochures. That was my leisure reading. I did some drag racing in my 20s, and I am a BIG NASCAR fan today. I'm probably what you might call, an aggressive driver.
Again, probably not your typical buyer, but that's my story, and I'm stickin' to it.
Lou
The IS350 paddles operate as a "Maximum gear" selector. For example, if I am cruising in 4th gear and accelerate moderately... the car will downshift on its own to 2nd gear, then upshifts as it pleases.
Which is my cheif complaint. If the paddles on the IS350 worked as they should, then I wouldnt have an issue. However, the paddles work the way an auto transmission does.
#26
Super Moderator
I can't figure out what's "fun" about getting worse results with more effort (a manual)
3) I know the MT is cheaper than the AT, but it's almost, if not, totally, impossible to get an MT in anything besides base-base car.
You can argue about demand all you want, but the fact is that Premium package 250's spend about 20 - 45 days on the ground, and MT 250's spend anywhere from 6 months to a year.
Nobody wants them, at least not in any significant number.
Nobody wants them, at least not in any significant number.
#28
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Not sure if it's a difference in regions but when I bought my car back in '06, I wanted white and a manual and my dealer had 2 on the lot. Each time I go in for service there's almost always one in the showroom; along with 5-6 IS-F's. Lexus of Norwood (boston area) if you're curious.
Well said. A manual also includes a little gadget called the "clutch" which can be very entertaining except in rush-hour traffic.
It's a question of control; the manual transmission does exactly what you want it to, exactly when you want it to, making the driving experience more involving.
#29
Lexus Fanatic
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My wifes SC300 has a clutch. It's annoying as hell compared to driving the 6AT in my 2IS. And that's a relatively nice/easy clutch too compared to many I've driven.
More effort for worse results=fun? That's just never gonna add up for me.
I don't even bother with the paddle shifters generally, because the computer is very, very good and the car is rarely NOT in the gear I want it to be without my having to put any work into getting it there. Hence I can focus more on actually -driving- the vehicle (steering, braking, and throttle control) rather than wasting time and effort telling the transmission what it should be doing.
Now, in a 1953 crapbox where the auto was a horrible 3-speed that was never in the right gear and lost 15% more hp and mpg compared to the stick? Sure, manual all the way, it's worth the extra work.
But in a 200x vehicle with a modern auto that is faster and more efficient than the manual option AND takes less work? Easy win for the auto.
More effort for worse results=fun? That's just never gonna add up for me.
I don't even bother with the paddle shifters generally, because the computer is very, very good and the car is rarely NOT in the gear I want it to be without my having to put any work into getting it there. Hence I can focus more on actually -driving- the vehicle (steering, braking, and throttle control) rather than wasting time and effort telling the transmission what it should be doing.
Now, in a 1953 crapbox where the auto was a horrible 3-speed that was never in the right gear and lost 15% more hp and mpg compared to the stick? Sure, manual all the way, it's worth the extra work.
But in a 200x vehicle with a modern auto that is faster and more efficient than the manual option AND takes less work? Easy win for the auto.
#30
Tech Info Resource
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The answer to the OP - NO, Lexus will not make a manual IS350. If they were going to, it would have happened by now.
For all the doubters - Toyota built 6MT and AT Supras. Guess which one sold in greater numbers? Guess which ones sat on the floor waiting to get sold the longest?
Don't get me wrong, I've been driving MT vehicles since I was 6 - 42 years ago - when I learned to drive a tractor in the barnyard. I really like the control of a manual transmission. But I have to say, the IS350's gearbox is pretty decent for an auto - my only complaints are occasional flare (when rolling at about 5 mph and you gas it, the engine revs but you don't go anywhere for a moment while the torque converter is deciding if you're really serious or not), but other than that it's pretty good at putting me in the gear I need. The paddles truly suck. The paddles in the IS-F are vastly better, and I would pay money to have the same kind of control in the 350.
I don't generally grouse about this subject because I still have my Supra with its Getrag 233, so I can get my instant fill of manual driving any time. Still, I drive the 350 more often than anything and I don't miss not having a manual in it at all. Especially if it were going to be the Tacoma based RA-62.
For all the doubters - Toyota built 6MT and AT Supras. Guess which one sold in greater numbers? Guess which ones sat on the floor waiting to get sold the longest?
Don't get me wrong, I've been driving MT vehicles since I was 6 - 42 years ago - when I learned to drive a tractor in the barnyard. I really like the control of a manual transmission. But I have to say, the IS350's gearbox is pretty decent for an auto - my only complaints are occasional flare (when rolling at about 5 mph and you gas it, the engine revs but you don't go anywhere for a moment while the torque converter is deciding if you're really serious or not), but other than that it's pretty good at putting me in the gear I need. The paddles truly suck. The paddles in the IS-F are vastly better, and I would pay money to have the same kind of control in the 350.
I don't generally grouse about this subject because I still have my Supra with its Getrag 233, so I can get my instant fill of manual driving any time. Still, I drive the 350 more often than anything and I don't miss not having a manual in it at all. Especially if it were going to be the Tacoma based RA-62.