iSuxeL

iTrader: (21)

DDM

LEXisJaDeM

iTrader: (12)

anyone have pics of the DDM's?

ELL Y

iTrader: (1)

Yeah I had some pictures on my last thread
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/is-...-ballasts.html
it's the one in the first pic. I had the 55w one- so it is about an inch longer. They are super slim and less than half the width of my full sized ones, albeit ignitor is separate

P.S. I don't work for them, or anything, and I'm not saying that XD or anybody else is bad, but I figure people should have choices. I've done a pretty decent amount of research into HIDs so I figure I could share some of my experiences.

AZ06IS350

I checked the DDM website, and it seemed like their kits were NOT plug and play which is really what I'm looking for.

ELL Y

iTrader: (1)

Those are considered to be plug and play for HIDs. All HID kits will have that setup (Ballast, bulb connectors, etc)
If you want to just change bulbs (Which I guess is plug and play in the most literal sense), you can get a 9006 base blue tinted halogen bulb. This will rob overall output, but get rid of your yellowish color. I have a blue painted bulb on my fogs too, since I am not a huge fan of HID fogs.

XenonDepot

iTrader: (11)

We actually work with vendors that both sell our products and DDM products.

Here is what their customers have to say about the difference:

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=100651

Steve

iLexi

iTrader: (1)

I just got my 3k fogs and 6k lows from cliff for 360$ shipped but havnt installed th
Yet. Once installed I'll post some pics (:

ELL Y

iTrader: (1)

Steve,
I cannot say that I am very convinced by that link, as it is mostly the vendor selling the Volt kits who is just saying that they are better without offering any evidence other than the experiences of a few. However, with the volume of sales that DDM has, i'm not surprised that they have some bad apples.

Japanese made parts? Chinese made parts? I'd like to see some evidence regardless of actual differences. Otherwise, its just gimmick, like HID manufacturers who say their kits are "fully digital" and have "microprocessors" What a crock of garbage.

XenonDepot

iTrader: (11)

Hi,

The vendor sells both Volt kits and DDM kits. He has experience selling both product lines and has gets feedback from his customers regarding both product lines daily. Clearly he would also know which kits he has problems with and which kits he does not.

Granted, me posting the link seems biased however the reason I posted that link was for you to see non biased reviews.

ELL Y

iTrader: (1)

Hm, I always figured that DDM tuning sold their kits direct. Their owner has them made in China where they are then shipped directly to his warehouse in California.
Besides, i'm not sure how many of the DDM kits that vendor (xenon expert) sells, provided that his website lists them for 200 dollars even though ddm has them listed for 60-70.

I won't say that there is no bad feedback for ddm, as there is much to be found on google, especially regarding their poor customer service. However, with a lifetime warranty, I'm willing to take my chances for that price.

the Volt kits are competitively priced, but HID kit prices have been continually falling for years, and I figured DDM to be at the forefront of this, making only 40 or so dollars in profit versus other HID kits with fancy packaging that can easily make 100 dollars or more.

Anyway, I didn't mean to turn this discussion into a "Brand A or Brand B" debate, but I do think that consumers deserve to be educated. I've seen dozens of examples of false advertising on HID kits- Mod Express's fake Phillips Hid Kit leaps to mind.

To me, aftermarket is aftermarket. If you want quality, you buy OEM- Phillips, Osram, Matsu****a, Denso, Hella, etc. etc. Otherwise, you just roll the dice. The people who say "you get when you pay for" means you get better customer service, fancy packaging, a pair of cheap nylon gloves, and some stickers with the brand name on it or something. So many parts between HID kits, both cheap and expensive, utilize the same looking connectors, harnesses, and bulbs.

Especially for fog lights, which barely help with road visibility anyway, mainly lighting the forefront of the vehicle and distracting the driver from seeing down the road where it matters, I figure that it's not a big deal.

To each his own.

cliffud

iTrader: (3)

"best" is so general...

If you want something rock solid that you won't have to worry about, check out this video...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFlZZukZx6Y



Haha.

Customers have run over them repeatedly, banged them around, put their cars into walls, let them grind against a pulley, etc... and they still work.

LEXisJaDeM

iTrader: (12)

so much good info. ell y, i couldnt have said it any better. im still trying to make a decision as well. in the past ive dealt with kits that have had flickering issues or fire up issues. so im alot more cautious.

XenonDepot

iTrader: (11)

Hi

Saying that all aftermarket HID kits are created equally is far from being correct. You can find HID kits that are made in factories that are nothing more than a little room where each component is hand assembled or you can purchase components from high tech facilities that are ISO certified, TUV certified, and work with the OEM industry. You can buy ballasts that will have very low efficiency meaning that they will burn out quicker and produce less light or you can buy ballasts that are E4, E13, and CE certified and are manufactured to the same standards as OEM components. Naturally purchasing from a high tech facility will result in higher costs. You can purchase cheap HID bulbs or you can purchase double layered Philips Quartz glass capsules to ensure you do not damage your vehicle's headlights to to UV. Just because you cant "see" a difference does not mean that there isn't a difference. Our HID bulbs (Xtreme and Philips) use Philips quartz glass to ensure the quality of the product.

Cheap HID kits can have failure rates of around 10% right of the box and could last only months (occasionally 1-2 years). Our kits are at approx a 0.05% failure rate and this is based on statistics from the last several years of selling Xtreme HID kits.

Warranty: It's very easy to advertise a warranty. I've seen vendors offer 3 year warranties, 5 year warranties, and even life time warranties. However, a warranty is only good so long as the company you purchase from stays in business. You guys have no idea how many emails or phone calls I get from people telling me that they purchased a kit from another company and and require some technical support however they can't get a hold of their vendor. It's funny that when making a purchase they were quick to discount the importance of warranty, technical support (with a phone number) and customer service and simply go for the best price. However, when push comes to shove and they actually need to speak to someone about dealing with a problem all of a sudden the "great deal" they thought they had turns into a nightmare. Remember, buying online is not like buying from a brick and mortar store. You can't drive up and demand your money back. Also, what good is a warranty if you have to be out of pocket for shipping the product back and forth??? If a customer has a problem with one of our products and it is under warranty WE pay for the shipping. We don't ask the customer to pay for shipping. Look into that....



Price: No one does anything for free. There are lots of fees to consider when selling HID products just like any business. There are transactional costs, selling fees, shipping fees, overhead, operating costs, etc.. The manufacturer also has their costs to worry about such as raw materials, labour, etc... When you break it down to how much margin there really is in the product you start to wonder how a $75 HID kit (or even less) can truly be a quality product and is comprised of quality components. Something has to give so that there is enough margin for people to be satisfied. What usually gives is the quality and service...

Steve

ELL Y

iTrader: (1)

I never said that all aftermarket HID kits are created equally. I said that aftermarket kits are just that- aftermarket kits. Several years ago (2003?) when the U.S. DOT requested samples of HID kits from manufacturers within the country, there is a reason nobody complied. They simply moved their operations to Asia and other areas where their products are out of reach. There is a reason why ALL HID KITS ARE ILLEGAL IN THE U.S. Their applications would not pass any OEM lamp tests. As to the certifications- but I have seen HID sites boasting these same certifications with huge variances in price points. And if by working with the OEM industry, you mean taking some of their parts which they sell to third parties, that can be true. But to say that Philips or other OEM manufacturers directly work with HID kit producers is absurd. They have a reputation to uphold, so why would they risk their brand name working with kit producers with far fewer regulations?

Perhaps "high quality" kits contain Philips Quartz and others do not. I have no way of verifying this claim, but I have NEVER heard of anybody's headlight polycarbonate being yellowed internally by the lack of UV protection from any HID kit, cheap or expensive.

I'm not saying DDM, or anyone, is perfect. Their storefront is apparently a mess (THOUGH THEY DO HAVE ONE) and they are difficult to reach. But people DO reach them, and there is a reason why people order from them repeatedly. Many people are happy, though it may not be the 99.95% that other companies claim. I hope that some day, they can continue to improve their business and customer service, as well as other vendors.

I am just saying you take a gamble with anyone you choose.

Xenondepot has obviously done something right, as they have been in business for MANY years. But I do not enjoy the idea of people blindly making a purchase just based on a general consensus. And many people DO spend more money just because they "think" that they are receiving quality. A number of years ago, people happily shelled out 500 dollars for a HID kit. Are you telling me that manufacturing costs has since improved so much with no decrease in quality that you can confidently back a much cheaper product now? No. But people were misinformed, just as they still are today.

I can buy a HID kit now from the same company that I bought from two years ago, and not have ANY idea if the quality has withheld the test of time. New product lines emerge all the time, and people have no idea what has changed, except for comparison charts released by the HID companies telling you what you should believe. Some companies (even DDM) claim that their bulbs are rebased Philips, which is absurd, since those bulbs cost more than the kit.

Of course, this sort of problem occurs with so many different things in life, even the heavily regulated pharmaceutical industry. Nexium is the S-enantiomer of Omeprazole, whereas Prilosec is the racemic (50% S, 50% R) mixture of the same compound. Of course, once prilosec became OTC Astra Zeneca decided to release Nexium so that they could charge a fortune for their prescription drug, and launched one of the most aggressive marketing campaigns to fool people into believing it is that much better.

Anyway, I digress. In the end, it's a whole lot of marketing. Go ahead and buy the more expensive stuff- but this is what I believe, and until I see solid comparisons performed by independent accredited testing labs, I will continue to believe this. And those studies won't come around because they're expensive and won't prove the bottom line that some are just worth that much more than others.

Again, I'm not trying to flame anyone, or kits in general, but I have had experience both cheap and expensive kits too, and they've both lasted a long time. (years)

XenonDepot

iTrader: (11)

Hi Ell Y,

Thank you for taking the time to respond. You bring up some very interesting points.

1) When NHTSA requested HID kits for sample they did not pass because they did not comply with FMVSS108. HID kits did not pass as OEM halogen headlights allow a slight amount of light to bleed upwards to illuminate overhead signs. In OEM HID headlights you do not have this hence the clear cut off (as shown in your signature picture). I agree with you that there are many websites out there that claim many different things and you really have to be careful when making your decision making process. You are wrong though in saying that Philips does not work with factories that make HID kits. I know this first hand. This might be the case with Philips North America however the Asian market is completely different.

2) HID bulbs do put out a fair amount of UV and poorly designed bulbs can damage your OE headlights. I just had this same conversation on another forum where a member was weary about installing an HID kit due to past experiences where kits damaged his headlights. Please view this link:

http://www.cherokeesrt8.com/forums/s...t=13276&page=2

3) I completely agree with you that people should do their homework before going out and shelling out money. I actually tell my customers to research before making their purchase just so that they feel more comfortable about spending their money. I won't say that we manage to keep 100% of the people 100% of the time (I wish) but generally speaking when people research HID kits our name usually comes up near the top. You've obviously done your homework and will therefore agree with me that you need to be very careful when buying online.

4) Assuming all things being equal (in terms of the actual HID kit), there is also the question of service and support when purchasing the kit. Some people don't mind paying a little more to buy from a reputable company that stands behind it's products and does offer after sales service/support. Others don't care and hope for the best. I wish you only knew how many emails we get from customers that purchased kits from other companies and now can no longer get a hold of the seller to get the problem resolved (warranty or not).

5) If you really are interested in discussing the difference in quality between manufacturers I would be glad to do so with you. Just send me a PM with your contact info and i will give you a call. There is only so much you can type =)

Steve