Why doesn't Lexus offer manual transmission in the IS350?
04-16-09, 02:29 PM
#61
Pole Position
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: BC
Posts: 228
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think Toyota would be really dumb not to update their transmission. I mean they have comealong way in a traditionally dominated by the Germans market, but they still have a very long way to go. It is nice to pull 306 horses out of a 3.5 but if your tranny takes 1-2 sec to shift....well there is a problem. I almost compare it (very loosely) to the TL debaucle. I loved my RSX but when I test drove a 2k8 TL-S and got enough torque steer to pull me into the next lane at the start.....I almost puked. The fact is Toyota needs to fix the "achilles heel" of the IS350 and when they do they definately will have THE entry Lux Sports Sedan. Untill then I will gladly makes Mustang GT owners gasp in disbelief (instead of say 370z owners)
when did the is-f have mt??
when did the is-f have mt??
04-16-09, 03:16 PM
#63
Gents,
There is a 3.5 with a 6 speed manual. Lotus will be using it in the new Evora!
http://www.leftlanenews.com/lotus-evora.html
Koz
There is a 3.5 with a 6 speed manual. Lotus will be using it in the new Evora!
http://www.leftlanenews.com/lotus-evora.html
Koz
04-16-09, 05:02 PM
#64
Tech Info Resource
iTrader: (2)
Oh how I would love to have a really good friend at Lotus with access to Toyota's engine management software.... but I digress...
04-17-09, 12:15 PM
#65
So you found -one- market in the world (and it's not the largest, or even the 2nd largest, or even the 3rd largest) where manuals still sell in any decent numbers, and even _there_ the % of cars with manuals is declining steadily and is projected to continue dropping into the future... and that somehow proves it's not a relic of the past that will be extinct in due course?
Doesn't that sorta prove the exact opposite?
And what are the numbers for manuals in the actual larger markets where most of the cars in the world are sold? (US, Japan, China, etc?)
My apologies on the porsche though, I should have written if you want the fastest 911 it won't have a 3rd pedal... the PDK model is faster and gets better mileage than the manual does. I expect it'll make its way into even the GTx models before long though as the few holdouts left come around to realizing the dinosaur of the clutch pedal does nothing but slow you down and hurt efficiency.
Oh, wait, my bad.... it already IS planned for the next GT3...
http://www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsAr...he-911/233008/
"We do know that the GT3 will get Porsche’s new seven-speed, dual-clutch transmission, officially known as Porsche Doppel Kupplung (PDK)."
So the only reason the GT3 doesn't have it yet is the current one is the old model. Hence it's only offering old tech like a clutch pedal. The new model fixes that problem by offering something modern and faster
So I was right after all, just a touch early since "offical" track times won't be published for a bit on the new model.
Doesn't that sorta prove the exact opposite?
And what are the numbers for manuals in the actual larger markets where most of the cars in the world are sold? (US, Japan, China, etc?)
My apologies on the porsche though, I should have written if you want the fastest 911 it won't have a 3rd pedal... the PDK model is faster and gets better mileage than the manual does. I expect it'll make its way into even the GTx models before long though as the few holdouts left come around to realizing the dinosaur of the clutch pedal does nothing but slow you down and hurt efficiency.
Oh, wait, my bad.... it already IS planned for the next GT3...
http://www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsAr...he-911/233008/
"We do know that the GT3 will get Porsche’s new seven-speed, dual-clutch transmission, officially known as Porsche Doppel Kupplung (PDK)."
So the only reason the GT3 doesn't have it yet is the current one is the old model. Hence it's only offering old tech like a clutch pedal. The new model fixes that problem by offering something modern and faster
So I was right after all, just a touch early since "offical" track times won't be published for a bit on the new model.
There are 218 million passenger cars registered in Europe. The ratio of passenger cars to population in Western Europe is 1:2.
http://www.acea.be/index.php/news/ne...hicles_in_use/
Even if we split that right down the middle and just assume that there is uniform distribution of vehicles across all of Europe, that's still 109 million cars in Western Europe, and using the 75% figure that's still 81.75 million cars.
Real big incentive to stop making manuals there, buddy. And regardless of the availability of dual-clutch gearboxes, there will always be that group of enthusiasts that want a manual.
EDIT: And PDK, F1, SMG, and so on aren't automatics. I doubt they'll find their way out of halo cars/specialty manufacturers in the next 25 years due to cost of design, manufacture, and maintenance. Ferrari has had F1 since the 90s......why haven't they phased out their manual transmissions yet? Or Porsche, when they designed Tiptronic in the late 80s. BMW has had SMG and Steptronic since the mid 90s as well, and yet not only do they offer a manual, it's still the cheapest transmission option by a thousand dollars.
DOUBLE EDIT: Oh, and that 75% number....I just realized that's a PRODUCTION number. Not just for local consumption. That means 75% of all BMW, Audi, Mercedes-Benz, Vauxhall, Opel, Porsche, Lamborghini, Ferrari, Seat, Citroen, Renault, Volkwagen, Saab, Volvo, Peugeot, Ford Europe, and so on and so forth PRODUCED had manuals. That includes the automatic only brands, like Jaguar, Rolls Royce, Bentley, Land Rover, etc.
That's a lot of manuals. The breed is definitely not dying as quickly as you'd like us to think.
Last edited by GrandSedanFan; 04-17-09 at 12:44 PM.
04-17-09, 12:35 PM
#66
Oh yeah, Western Europe is such a tiny market.
There are 218 million passenger cars registered in Europe. The ratio of passenger cars to population in Western Europe is 1:2.
Even if we split that right down the middle and just assume that there is uniform distribution of vehicles across all of Europe, that's still 109 million cars in Western Europe, and using the 75% figure that's still 81.75 million cars.
There are 218 million passenger cars registered in Europe. The ratio of passenger cars to population in Western Europe is 1:2.
Even if we split that right down the middle and just assume that there is uniform distribution of vehicles across all of Europe, that's still 109 million cars in Western Europe, and using the 75% figure that's still 81.75 million cars.
So nearly all the buyers in your top 3 markets couldn't care less about having a clutch pedal. In fact they're prefer not to have one. In the one market in the world that DOES seem to care the % of people buying them is dropping steadily. That doesn't exactly spell bright future for outdated inferior technology.
EDIT: And PDK, F1, SMG, and so on aren't automatics. I doubt they'll find their way out of halo cars/specialty manufacturers in the next 25 years due to cost of design, manufacture, and maintenance. Ferrari has had F1 since the 90s......why haven't they phased out their manual transmissions yet? Or Porsche, when they designed Tiptronic in the late 80s. BMW has had SMG and Steptronic since the mid 90s as well, and yet not only do they offer a manual, it's still the cheapest transmission option by a thousand dollars.
Automatic doesn't require a torque converter. Automatics existed before torque converters, and will be around long after too.
As you note the advanced automatic stuff is expensive. But it gets cheaper the more it's in use... 15 years ago it was in Ferraris costing as much as a decent house... now it's available in cars under 50k. Give it 5 more years and it'll be commonly available in cars priced like the 2IS or cheaper. That's how technology tends to work.
Last edited by Kurtz; 04-17-09 at 12:40 PM.
04-17-09, 12:53 PM
#67
European market is actually a small one in terms of $$$ potential...
USA market was the largest world market for automobiles, which is now being surpassed by Asia (specially China) and the middle east.
USA market was the largest world market for automobiles, which is now being surpassed by Asia (specially China) and the middle east.
10-17-11, 07:46 PM
#69
Not worth bringing up this thread for. Not at all.
But, since you did; and this is basically what it all boils down to, and is going to almost always be the answer, no matter what: Lexus doesn't offer a manual transmission on the IS350, because they don't think they'll make money doing so. The IS350 isn't even sold in most markets, and where it is sold, automatics sell better.
Money, money, money. It's usually the answer.
Jeff
But, since you did; and this is basically what it all boils down to, and is going to almost always be the answer, no matter what: Lexus doesn't offer a manual transmission on the IS350, because they don't think they'll make money doing so. The IS350 isn't even sold in most markets, and where it is sold, automatics sell better.
Money, money, money. It's usually the answer.
Jeff
10-17-11, 08:01 PM
#70
Comparing apples to apples the PDK in sport mode in the 2012 911 shaves nearly half a second off the 0-60 time compared to the exact same car with a clutch pedal in it.
10-18-11, 07:56 AM
#71
Driver School Candidate
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: tn
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
it because the GT3 is ment for the purist. its not about the mil seconds saved on a lap bc of shift times, the car is ment for a true driver car connection. i have much respect for Porsche for choosing a standard only route for the GT3, fewer and fewer cars are like that now.
10-18-11, 10:52 AM
#73
Doesn't sound like a club I wanna be in...
I wonder if the folks in 1912 who really enjoyed starting their cars with big metal cranks on the front were the same way when electric starters became popular...
REAL men crank their own engines by HAND!
radial tires? bias ply was good enough for my grandfather so it's good enough for me!
headlights? Real men hold flashlights in their mouth while driving!
Naah... to me, real men work smarter, nor harder. Which is what things like the PDK/F1/IS-F transmissions offer... vastly faster shifting than any 3-pedal setup, with total control of what gear you're in, without needing to take a hand off the wheel, and better mileage too.
I guess Formula 1 drivers are old women too... they moved to paddle shifters years ago.
