Why aftermarket nav is so much better than OEM
07-12-09, 07:22 PM
#16
Because some people don't need NAV or they might want more features that aftermarket NAVs have. The same could be said about the IS250 if we were to use that logic, but most IS250 people probably don't want or need the extra power. Maybe they want better MPG. The list could go on and on...
Seriously, though, why pay any money for something you don't want/desire/need.
Yes, it's a "luxury" car, but that doesn't matter since it's an <OPTION>
On ANY vehicle, assuming that nav is an option.......at the end of the day, you WILL (very more than likely) pay more for the vehicle with nav than a comparable car without. And, at the end of your ownership, you will likely sell your car for MORE with the factory nav than without. The question is, how much of an adder is it really going to be.
The $2500 optional nav system at the time of original purchase may only bring $1000 as an option after 5 years of ownership. So, you just spent an additional $300/yr for the integrated nav. Whether or not it's worth it is up to you.
But, remember, THESE ARE CARS....you know, items that DEPRECIATE over time. This isn't a house where a $5000 improvement nets you a good return.
For some people, cars are just means of driving from point A to point B, and all that really matters is the COST OF OWNERSHIP over the length of time that you keep the vehicle.
Last edited by mikes rx; 07-12-09 at 07:27 PM.
07-12-09, 07:24 PM
#17
Don't take my argument from the previous thread
Seriously, though, why pay any money for something you don't want/desire/need.
Yes, it's a "luxury" car, but that doesn't matter since it's an <OPTION>
On ANY vehicle, assuming that nav is an option.......at the end of the day, you WILL (very more than likely) pay more for the vehicle with nav than a comparable car without. And, at the end of your ownership, you will likely sell your car for MORE with the factory nav than without. The question is, how much of an adder is it really going to be.
The $2500 optional nav system at the time of original purchase may only bring $1000 as an option after 5 years of ownership. So, you just spent an additional $300/yr for the integrated nav. Whether or not it's worth it is up to you.
Seriously, though, why pay any money for something you don't want/desire/need.
Yes, it's a "luxury" car, but that doesn't matter since it's an <OPTION>
On ANY vehicle, assuming that nav is an option.......at the end of the day, you WILL (very more than likely) pay more for the vehicle with nav than a comparable car without. And, at the end of your ownership, you will likely sell your car for MORE with the factory nav than without. The question is, how much of an adder is it really going to be.
The $2500 optional nav system at the time of original purchase may only bring $1000 as an option after 5 years of ownership. So, you just spent an additional $300/yr for the integrated nav. Whether or not it's worth it is up to you.
It's in a really old thread though.
07-12-09, 07:51 PM
#18
07-12-09, 08:11 PM
#19
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I want everyone to re-read this thread.
Personal attacks and insults are not tolerated at Club Lexus. Discussion and debate over this issue is fine, but personal insults will be removed and personal attacks will result in administrative action.
We're all adults here. Let's act like we're all sitting in the same room having a conversation over a heated topic, but not hurling insults around the room.
Personal attacks and insults are not tolerated at Club Lexus. Discussion and debate over this issue is fine, but personal insults will be removed and personal attacks will result in administrative action.
We're all adults here. Let's act like we're all sitting in the same room having a conversation over a heated topic, but not hurling insults around the room.
07-12-09, 08:33 PM
#20
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Why not just end this topic before it gets out of hand? Some of my [edited] earlier comments were uncalled for and I apologize for that. Sorry.
Last edited by DaveGS4; 07-12-09 at 08:40 PM.
07-12-09, 08:35 PM
#21
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And the second picture I provided looks completely OEM, yet still uses an aftermarket nav that does a slew more things, and better.
Nobody is going to break in for something that looks factory after all.
Nobody is going to break in for something that looks factory after all.
So you think it was a good idea to spend $2200 more than I did to have a nav that only sucks in -10- ways compared to Garmin instead of 11?
Right... which is why the glaring lack of modern features in the OEM nav is so horrible...especially with the insane price they charge for it. The nav in the Infinity G, 4 years ago, did more and cost half as much... let alone how much better an aftermarket unit is.
I didn't know Infiniti is known as Infinity now a days. When did the speaker company buy Infiniti?
The backup camera shows what is directly behind you... it doesn't show if a car is coming parallel to your car. So unless you're physically incapable of looking behind you you're not getting any benefit.... and if you are, the parking sensors work great and cost $400 instead of $2500. Or, again, if your neck really is broken, you can add a rear view cam to many aftermarket navs. Heck you can probably even use the OEM rear view camera if you're that obsessed with sticking to Lexus parts, and still save a bundle displaying it on the aftermarket nav.
Unlike you who have to press a second button (well, screen touch) all the time to change any functions on the radio, climate control, etc...all of which I do in 1 button on my physical non-nav controls.
I could.... or I can do it via FM if I want... or I can just use the built in speaker... all depends what I want to do. Since the Garmin can play mp3s and audiobooks the FM route isn't bad for that since it'll play nicely through my ML system too.
And yet it's so dangerous some states have passed laws making it illegal.
Watching a movie, rather than the road, while driving a car is idiotic. Period.
Watching a movie, rather than the road, while driving a car is idiotic. Period.
I thought this was a Luxury car? Now you have to figure out distances in your head and hope there's not two streets really close to each other since the OEM nav is too dumb to tell you street names like my Garmin?
07-12-09, 09:32 PM
#22
Real time traffic is a huge one... even many $99 navs offer that now, and the 30 seconds I spend moving the Garmin from the center console to the dash is more than made up for by the much larger amounts of time I save avoiding traffic.
Additional ones- Speaks street names (to the guy who asks how you'd know what a street name is- some places have these neat things called signs)
lane assist- It will tell you what lane to be in for upcoming turns, merges, ramps, etc... including showing you an actual picture of what the exit, turn, or ramp looks like... extremely helpful driving in areas you're not familiar with that might have complex interchanges on the roads.
Custom POIs- I can load databases of redlight cameras, speed traps, and any other POIs I want to my Garmin... I can even set it up to alert me when I'm approaching one.
Store and play gigs and gigs of mp3s, audiobooks, etc... (expandable with SD cards too)
The garmin also tells me the speed limit on whatever road I happen to be on, which is also nice.
The garmin will also let you plan a trip on your PC (much easier than doing it on the car nav), then upload the whole route including custom POIs, custom destinations, and custom routing, to the GPS to take with you.
Some units can also show you the cheapest nearby gas, movie times for theaters near your location, local weather, and more...
That's all in addition to costs a couple grand less... plus the $300 a year you don't have to waste on Lexus map updates (since the garmin gives lifetime updates for $99)
Oh, and you can also take it on trips with you to use in your rental car... and even better when you feel like upgrading when a GPS with even more cool features comes out, it costs very little to do so.
Meanwhile the OEM nav can... um.... well... it has a camera.... (that your aftermarket can have to for still tons less $)
As I said, I paid cash for my IS350... and I special ordered it -specifically- so that I could get Mark Levinson _without_ navigation. I saw no reason to pay $2500 for an outdated nav system when my $200 one did a lot more. if I wanted one with nav I certainly couldn't had one, I waited an extra 2.5 months for the car just to avoid it since it was so less functional than the Garmin. If I'd gotten the G35 I'd have gotten the factory nav, since it was a lot less out of date on features (their unit offeres real time traffic, mp3/audiobook playback, speaking street names, etc...) and they charged about $700 less too despite it doing a lot more.
if Lexus had offered a system that was at least close to on-par with basic aftermarket or competitor systems at the time I might have chosen differently... Apparently the IS-C finally updates to a nav system that looks like it was designed in this century though so at least there's that for C buyers
But even better, I can change my radio presets directly between 1-6 with one touch of a button... you need to switch away from the nav screen to the stereo screen, then pick your preset, then go back to the nav screen. Meantime I just directly pushed 1 button while keeping my nav display up.
I also don't have to pick between displaying nav info or MP3/CD info on a screen... I get to see both at the same time.
So, just like several garmin models then... nice.
BTW, you CAN get an aftermarket GPS that plays DVD movies too... it's just a horrible dumb idea to do while driving so I skipped that feature.
Wow, how hard is it to know how much is 100 feet? I have been using OEM Navi for nearly 10 years. How come I don't have a single problem? Like someone mention, it is ridiculous to read the street name while driving. It must be very difficult to concentrate on the road while reading the street signs at the same time.
See how you use one excuse for the OEM nav shortcomings then don't like it when the same one works against ya?
But the point was there's many places where two streets might be right after one another... so it's a lot easier to know "turn right at the one labeled Walnut street" than to guess which of the two rights coming up is at 100 feet and which one was only 80 feet.
Last edited by Kurtz; 07-12-09 at 09:49 PM.
07-12-09, 09:50 PM
#23
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lane assist- It will tell you what lane to be in for upcoming turns, merges, ramps, etc... including showing you an actual picture of what the exit, turn, or ramp looks like... extremely helpful driving in areas you're not familiar with that might have complex interchanges on the roads.
Custom POIs- I can load databases of redlight cameras, speed traps, and any other POIs I want to my Garmin... I can even set it up to alert me when I'm approaching one.
Store and play gigs and gigs of mp3s, audiobooks, etc... (expandable with SD cards too)
Why would we need that we can use Ipod or play MP3 CD?
The garmin also tells me the speed limit on whatever road I happen to be on, which is also nice.
The garmin will also let you plan a trip on your PC (much easier than doing it on the car nav), then upload the whole route including custom POIs, custom destinations, and custom routing, to the GPS to take with you.
Some units can also show you the cheapest nearby gas, movie times for theaters near your location, local weather, and more...
That's all in addition to costs a couple grand less... plus the $300 a year you don't have to waste on Lexus map updates (since the garmin gives lifetime updates for $99)
Oh, and you can also take it on trips with you to use in your rental car... and even better when you feel like upgrading when a GPS with even more cool features comes out, it costs very little to do so.
It's a fisheye lens... it is wide angle, but it doesn't see around corners. I've used them on loaner cars from Lexus (and a few rentals) and I've yet to have it be any more useful than just looking behind me like a normal person.
But even better, I can change my radio presets between 1-6 with direct touch of a button... you need to switch away from the nav screen to the stereo screen, then pick your preset, then go back to the nav screen. Meantime I just directly pushed 1 button while keeping my nav display up
Wrong, I can also. I can use the change disc button to change radio presets.
I also don't have to pick between displaying nav info or MP3/CD info on a screen... I get to see both at the same time.
Might wanna get a better transmitter then....clear as day on mine. But usually I just use the speaker built into the GPS honestly, since "turn left on Jones street" really doesn't need to be in 7.1 stereo like my music does. Still, it's a nice option to use the FM transmitter for some things (playing audiobooks from the GPS unit since it'll hold gigs of them for example, something the OEM unit doesn't do).
You said it right here actually from the other thread-
So I guess you're backtracking now that you realize how poor an idea it is to watch while driving? (or at least how poor an idea it is to admit it)
BTW, you CAN get an aftermarket GPS that plays DVD movies too... it's just a horrible dumb idea to do while driving so I skipped that feature.
So I guess you're backtracking now that you realize how poor an idea it is to watch while driving? (or at least how poor an idea it is to admit it)
BTW, you CAN get an aftermarket GPS that plays DVD movies too... it's just a horrible dumb idea to do while driving so I skipped that feature.
Where did I say I watch DVD while driving?? It might be a dumb idea to you but my friends loves it especially on road trips.
I dunno... how hard is it to look behind you when backing out? Apparently really tough for you since you need the camera... I've been driving cars a lot longer than 10 years and never had a problem without a camera.
But the point was there's many places where two streets might be right after one another... so it's a lot easier to know "turn right at the one labeled Walnut street" than to guess which of the two rights coming up is at 100 feet and which one was only 80 feet.
07-12-09, 09:56 PM
#24
lol its just u two arguing again? why not just take it to PM's
i do agree our navs kinda suck but i would still pay for it again b/c it incorporates other features such as the touch screen A/C, audio, maintance info, etc.. but w/e i love my car
i do agree our navs kinda suck but i would still pay for it again b/c it incorporates other features such as the touch screen A/C, audio, maintance info, etc.. but w/e i love my car
07-12-09, 11:51 PM
#25
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What happens with Garmin if you don't have a clear view of the sky (concrete jungle, parking garage, etc.)?
Can you put maintenance reminders in the Garmin?
How long does Garmin take to acquire position from a cold start?
I've used Garmin and Everlost with rentals. Garmin has the same in motion restrictions Lexus has - at least on the unit's I've rented.
Garmin AND Lexus have both routed me in idiotic ways - refusing to acknowledge a left turn might be quickest and easiest, so they've both routed me in right turn circles to do something easily handled by a single legal left turn.
NONE of the navigation systems I've seen will record where I've been and print me a report so I can fill out my expense reimbursement forms. NONE of them have taken advantage of the BT connection to access the Internet through tethering.
Ideally, I'd like the nav to have unfettered Internet access so I can find POIs through their websites and stay abreast of new locations far more efficiently than any list maintained by Telenav or Denso.
So, if you want cheap, portable nav with the latest features the aftermarket can offer, get aftermarket.
If you want expensive, form fitting, fully integrated navigation that works whether you can lock satellites or not with the ability to set maintenance reminders, control your audio with a touchscreen graphic interface, etc, buy the Lexus nav. I've had it in both my 350 and my F. I like it most of the time, every once in awhile I hate it, but I can say the exact same thing about Garmin and Everlost. I distinctly remember wanting to rip the Everlost out of a car I'd rented and throw it on the freeway because it was so inept. So, I'll never say aftermarket always beats factory or factory always beats aftermarket. They both have their pluses and minuses. And no, I surely didn't pay anything remotely like the $2200 retail price for the nav. I also would not order my car unless I planned on spending retail because most dealers won't deal on special orders. Had that been the case, my F would not have a sunroof...but that's another thread.
Can you put maintenance reminders in the Garmin?
How long does Garmin take to acquire position from a cold start?
I've used Garmin and Everlost with rentals. Garmin has the same in motion restrictions Lexus has - at least on the unit's I've rented.
Garmin AND Lexus have both routed me in idiotic ways - refusing to acknowledge a left turn might be quickest and easiest, so they've both routed me in right turn circles to do something easily handled by a single legal left turn.
NONE of the navigation systems I've seen will record where I've been and print me a report so I can fill out my expense reimbursement forms. NONE of them have taken advantage of the BT connection to access the Internet through tethering.
Ideally, I'd like the nav to have unfettered Internet access so I can find POIs through their websites and stay abreast of new locations far more efficiently than any list maintained by Telenav or Denso.
So, if you want cheap, portable nav with the latest features the aftermarket can offer, get aftermarket.
If you want expensive, form fitting, fully integrated navigation that works whether you can lock satellites or not with the ability to set maintenance reminders, control your audio with a touchscreen graphic interface, etc, buy the Lexus nav. I've had it in both my 350 and my F. I like it most of the time, every once in awhile I hate it, but I can say the exact same thing about Garmin and Everlost. I distinctly remember wanting to rip the Everlost out of a car I'd rented and throw it on the freeway because it was so inept. So, I'll never say aftermarket always beats factory or factory always beats aftermarket. They both have their pluses and minuses. And no, I surely didn't pay anything remotely like the $2200 retail price for the nav. I also would not order my car unless I planned on spending retail because most dealers won't deal on special orders. Had that been the case, my F would not have a sunroof...but that's another thread.
07-13-09, 04:16 AM
#29
Then again, I can't recall ever needing turn by turn directions while inside a parking garage either.
Nope. Thankfully my car already does that for me- a nice little light comes on every 5k miles on the dash.
Absolutely cold start? About 30 seconds. It's generally locked by the time my seatbelt is on and I've checked my mirrors. If it's been on anytime recently it's pretty much instant.
There are NO in motion restrictions whatsoever.
Thanks for reminding me about yet another feature that sucks on the OEM system unless you cut up your wiring though!
And no, I surely didn't pay anything remotely like the $2200 retail price for the nav. I also would not order my car unless I planned on spending retail because most dealers won't deal on special orders. Had that been the case, my F would not have a sunroof...but that's another thread.
And my 350 wouldn't have a sunroof either if they built them that way at all with the sport package in it (rather than only offering no-sunroof on the X package). I'd prefer the improved handling of a solid roof.
07-13-09, 04:39 AM
#30
So now you have to use two devices to get only 8 less extra features compared to the Garmin? What happened to the elegance and cleanness of your single device?
Explain how this works too... you keep your phone sitting on your dash while you drive? Do you have a mount for it? Not very luxury is it? then your phone tells you there's traffic... then... what?
Your nav still has no idea there's traffic, so it can't automatically route you around it like my garmin does.... so how does your system elegantly and luxuriously help you avoid traffic as mine does?
OEM nav does NOT do lane assist. It tells you you'll need to turn left or right in a certain distance, and that's about it.
First it'll have arrows indicating which of the lanes of the road turn the way you need so you know which lanes are ok to be in-
http://www.gpsmagazine.com/assets/nu...ith-arrows.jpg
Then it'll show you a picture of the actual interchange with the real signage coming up-
http://www.gpsmagazine.com/assets/nu...ign-detail.jpg
Wait...now you need THREE devices to get almost as much functionality as my one? Seems like you've got a much MORE cluttered dash than I do now, and you're still missing quite a few features...
But I didn't realize your radar detector could download constantly-updated databases of intersections with red-light cameras and configure custom alerts where you set how far in advance to be warned... what model is that?
MP3s don't hold dozens of gigs on em... an ipod sure can... now you're up to FOUR devices to try and match the features of my one and still coming up short...
Yes, you can.... it'll take a lot longer because you're using the touchscreen interface, versus using a PC with a mouse and keyboard. So if you wanna sit in your car for half an hour customizing in advance routing for a 2000 mile trip with 20 stops while I've planned my custom routes and destinations in 10 minutes on the PC, go ahead... it's yet more time your solution wastes. Plus I can be looking at websites, local maps in the browsers, etc all at the same time when planning the trip to help improve my trip plan.
I suppose you could sit there in your car with a laptop next to you.... once again kinda a clunky method.
So again you're needing extra devices to try and catch up to what the Garmin does... I suppose pulling your phone out to look stuff up isn't any more dangerous than watching DVDs while driving though...
You spent $2000+ on an navigation system and you never go anywhere but the local area you live in? THAT is pretty funny.
And they never, ever, build anything new where you live?
Restaurants or other POIs never, ever, change where you live?
Sounds kinda boring...
So now you're spending even more extra money for again an inferior solution (Lob already mentioned the shortcomings of the rented units). I never worry about mine being stolen either unless there's gangs of theives with x-ray vision roaming around...in which case there's bigger problems.
So are my eyes.
No you can't. You can use it to scroll through them, not select them.
If you're on 1 and want to go to 4 that's ONE button press for me.
It's 3 for you... 1->2, 2->3, 3->4, pretty inelegant...again.
I dunno... you were the one all hopped up about seeing track, artist, and other data before you found out the non-nav systems display them too... now suddenly it's ok to NEVER see it because your nav screen is up instead?
Odd how ya keep changing your story...
You made a big point about how "you can watch DVDs while driving" now you're trying to insist you never watch DVDs while driving.
Any other features you wanna advertise how good they are then deny you meant that you use them when someone points out how unsafe it is?
Again, this must be a result of you never going anywhere but the town you live in if you've never seen two streets one right after the other...
Explain how this works too... you keep your phone sitting on your dash while you drive? Do you have a mount for it? Not very luxury is it? then your phone tells you there's traffic... then... what?
Your nav still has no idea there's traffic, so it can't automatically route you around it like my garmin does.... so how does your system elegantly and luxuriously help you avoid traffic as mine does?
OEM nav does NOT do lane assist. It tells you you'll need to turn left or right in a certain distance, and that's about it.
First it'll have arrows indicating which of the lanes of the road turn the way you need so you know which lanes are ok to be in-
http://www.gpsmagazine.com/assets/nu...ith-arrows.jpg
Then it'll show you a picture of the actual interchange with the real signage coming up-
http://www.gpsmagazine.com/assets/nu...ign-detail.jpg
Wait...now you need THREE devices to get almost as much functionality as my one? Seems like you've got a much MORE cluttered dash than I do now, and you're still missing quite a few features...
But I didn't realize your radar detector could download constantly-updated databases of intersections with red-light cameras and configure custom alerts where you set how far in advance to be warned... what model is that?
MP3s don't hold dozens of gigs on em... an ipod sure can... now you're up to FOUR devices to try and match the features of my one and still coming up short...
Yes, you can.... it'll take a lot longer because you're using the touchscreen interface, versus using a PC with a mouse and keyboard. So if you wanna sit in your car for half an hour customizing in advance routing for a 2000 mile trip with 20 stops while I've planned my custom routes and destinations in 10 minutes on the PC, go ahead... it's yet more time your solution wastes. Plus I can be looking at websites, local maps in the browsers, etc all at the same time when planning the trip to help improve my trip plan.
I suppose you could sit there in your car with a laptop next to you.... once again kinda a clunky method.
So again you're needing extra devices to try and catch up to what the Garmin does... I suppose pulling your phone out to look stuff up isn't any more dangerous than watching DVDs while driving though...
And they never, ever, build anything new where you live?
Restaurants or other POIs never, ever, change where you live?
Sounds kinda boring...
So now you're spending even more extra money for again an inferior solution (Lob already mentioned the shortcomings of the rented units). I never worry about mine being stolen either unless there's gangs of theives with x-ray vision roaming around...in which case there's bigger problems.
So are my eyes.
If you're on 1 and want to go to 4 that's ONE button press for me.
It's 3 for you... 1->2, 2->3, 3->4, pretty inelegant...again.
Odd how ya keep changing your story...
Any other features you wanna advertise how good they are then deny you meant that you use them when someone points out how unsafe it is?
Again, this must be a result of you never going anywhere but the town you live in if you've never seen two streets one right after the other...
Last edited by Kurtz; 07-13-09 at 05:09 AM.