advice for first time tire replacement
08-31-09, 05:51 PM
#32
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Corrected for truth. The General has never been known for performance, and the Exclaim is no exception.
08-31-09, 05:54 PM
#33
I just thought they got them b/c they were cheap since the m3 eats through tires fast.
08-31-09, 07:35 PM
#35
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Just whatever you do or anyone else for the matter...
Don't get Goodyear Eagle F1 AS.
I am barely 10k into them and they're LOUD.
So loud I'm thinking of just tossing them out with tread left.
Sounds like a TRUCK.
Good in the snow though
Don't get Goodyear Eagle F1 AS.
I am barely 10k into them and they're LOUD.
So loud I'm thinking of just tossing them out with tread left.
Sounds like a TRUCK.
Good in the snow though
08-31-09, 08:12 PM
#36
And yet the PS2 is not ranked among the other tires on the scale. Go figure.
And yet, by the end of the article, the PS2 is still considered the benchmark. Go figure.
As I said before, Hachette Filipacchi is in the business of selling magazines; not selling you or any reader on any paritcular idea.
And yet, by the end of the article, the PS2 is still considered the benchmark. Go figure.
As I said before, Hachette Filipacchi is in the business of selling magazines; not selling you or any reader on any paritcular idea.
I read the article online for free, and the article convinced me to NOT buy the tire you insist they're taking $ under the table to talk up, because it points out several are as good or better in many regards for less money.
That same article compares the PS2 specifically 9 different times (to each tire) in 6 categories.
If you're doing a comparison you have to pick _something_ to compare to after all.
Last edited by lobuxracer; 08-31-09 at 11:22 PM. Reason: Personal attack deleted
08-31-09, 08:34 PM
#37
the PS2 was used as the benchmark. as such, it would make sense that other tires would be compared TO it, not ALONG WITH it.
and as it was used as the benchmark, wouldn't it still make sense that the PS2 is still the benchmark at the end of the competition - if no other tire could inspire the same level of confidence that the PS2 demonstrated in ALL of the tests?
btw, just to show some impartiality to the michelin - and in effect the PS2's, in 2005 C&D did this review:
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...mparison_tests
fyi, the PS2's came in 4th - out of 11 tires.
and to quote the article regarding C&D's choice of the PS2's as their benchmark:
(bolded for emphasis)
i don't know about you, but if C&D were playing favorites, it sure doesn't show here.
and as it was used as the benchmark, wouldn't it still make sense that the PS2 is still the benchmark at the end of the competition - if no other tire could inspire the same level of confidence that the PS2 demonstrated in ALL of the tests?
btw, just to show some impartiality to the michelin - and in effect the PS2's, in 2005 C&D did this review:
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...mparison_tests
fyi, the PS2's came in 4th - out of 11 tires.
and to quote the article regarding C&D's choice of the PS2's as their benchmark:
BMW M3; Porsche 911, Boxster, and Cayman; Chevrolet Corvette ZR1; Cadillac CTS-V. A list of some of our favorite cars? Yes. And they all wear Michelin PS2s, which is probably one of the reasons many C/D staffers consider the PS2 their favorite summer tire and a good enough reason to use it as our benchmark in this test.
After which, we were understandably surprised that the pricey PS2s didn’t dominate the dry portion of the test, finishing only midpack in both autocross time and braking. Geswein thought excessive understeer held back the lap times. Still, the PS2s pulled an above-average 0.92 g on the skidpad and exhibited a very sure-footed, predictable demeanor. Unlike most of the other tires, the PS2s were responsive to steering inputs at the limit and would tuck back in nicely after their grip was exceeded. Another positive is pleasant ride quality, noted in the street-driving portion.
In the wet, the benchmark PS2s showed their mettle, feeling the most connected to the road and reeling in the quickest lap time—beating the Ling Longs’ dry time—and generating a heady 0.88 g on the skidpad, which was as high as two of the competitors’ best efforts in the dry. The PS2s’ wet performance was certainly impressive, but we’d like more dry capability from an expensive summer tire.
After which, we were understandably surprised that the pricey PS2s didn’t dominate the dry portion of the test, finishing only midpack in both autocross time and braking. Geswein thought excessive understeer held back the lap times. Still, the PS2s pulled an above-average 0.92 g on the skidpad and exhibited a very sure-footed, predictable demeanor. Unlike most of the other tires, the PS2s were responsive to steering inputs at the limit and would tuck back in nicely after their grip was exceeded. Another positive is pleasant ride quality, noted in the street-driving portion.
In the wet, the benchmark PS2s showed their mettle, feeling the most connected to the road and reeling in the quickest lap time—beating the Ling Longs’ dry time—and generating a heady 0.88 g on the skidpad, which was as high as two of the competitors’ best efforts in the dry. The PS2s’ wet performance was certainly impressive, but we’d like more dry capability from an expensive summer tire.
i don't know about you, but if C&D were playing favorites, it sure doesn't show here.
08-31-09, 08:38 PM
#38
Actually the hankooks that come on our cars from factory now 09+ have actually had very good reviews on them. the tires do not wear out as fast as before on the insides (20Kish miles) and road noise and performance is great. Im def gonna get me a set of these when my tires are worn out. the price for it is cheappp compared to others
08-31-09, 08:42 PM
#39
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08-31-09, 10:39 PM
#40
if you think C&D are playing favorites, wouldn't you think that they would have done everything to avoid the quoted criticisms (see bolded statements, 2nd and 3rd paragraph)?
again, the reasons why C&D chose the PS2's as their benchmark tire were...
1. it is oem equipment for the aforementioned high-performance vehicles (see bolded statement in paragraph 1)
2. because of #1, C&D staffers "consider the PS2 their favorite summer tire"
they didn't arbitrarily choose the PS2 because mr. filipacchi was pocketing money from michelin. sure, they pay to advertise in C&D, but so do other tire companies - but that's besides the point.
as the benchmark, all the other tires in the comparison were compared TO the PS2, not WITH it. the PS2 is the benchmark BECAUSE it is oem equipment on the aforementioned cars, and BECAUSE it is a good performer in dry and wet testing. the article even clearly states that a few of the tires compared TO the PS2 had better dry-condition performance, and that a few tires compared TO the PS2 had better wet-condition performance, but there wasn't a convergence that had better wet- AND dry-condition performance. having said that, shouldn't that qualify it as a BENCHMARK?
btw, in case you missed the link i posted from a 2005 review, check my previous post for it. did they favor the PS2 in that comparison test?
if anything, you sound like you don't like C&D so much, which is a discussion for another day.
again, the reasons why C&D chose the PS2's as their benchmark tire were...
1. it is oem equipment for the aforementioned high-performance vehicles (see bolded statement in paragraph 1)
2. because of #1, C&D staffers "consider the PS2 their favorite summer tire"
they didn't arbitrarily choose the PS2 because mr. filipacchi was pocketing money from michelin. sure, they pay to advertise in C&D, but so do other tire companies - but that's besides the point.
as the benchmark, all the other tires in the comparison were compared TO the PS2, not WITH it. the PS2 is the benchmark BECAUSE it is oem equipment on the aforementioned cars, and BECAUSE it is a good performer in dry and wet testing. the article even clearly states that a few of the tires compared TO the PS2 had better dry-condition performance, and that a few tires compared TO the PS2 had better wet-condition performance, but there wasn't a convergence that had better wet- AND dry-condition performance. having said that, shouldn't that qualify it as a BENCHMARK?
btw, in case you missed the link i posted from a 2005 review, check my previous post for it. did they favor the PS2 in that comparison test?
if anything, you sound like you don't like C&D so much, which is a discussion for another day.
08-31-09, 11:29 PM
#41
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All - the discussion about Car & Driver's bias is over. There have been enough personal insults passed out in this thread to keep me busy for far longer than I'd like.
If your post contains anything related to WHY C&D picked the PS2 as their benchmark, I will delete it with extreme prejudice. Discuss the tires in the comparison, but not the benchmark or why it happens to be the benchmark.
If your post contains anything related to WHY C&D picked the PS2 as their benchmark, I will delete it with extreme prejudice. Discuss the tires in the comparison, but not the benchmark or why it happens to be the benchmark.
09-01-09, 01:16 AM
#42
I don't really know that much about tires but it seems like a lot of people are just throwing money away if they buy the PS2 tires just because it's been the tire of choice for lots of high end sports cars. Our cars (especially the 250), probably won't come anywhere near the performance capability of those tires. Given how fast they wear out, and how expensive they are, it seems to me the equivalent of me wearing Nike Air Jordans... I still suck at basketball...
09-01-09, 06:59 AM
#43
I'd really be interested in riding in a 2IS with new PS2's, but I doubt I would ever buy them. I don't see the point in buying a very expensive performance tire for a sedan so that it will handle slitly less horrible. I've been happy with the 3 sets of cheapo tires that I've had over the last few years (Dunlop Direzzas and Sumitomo HTRZIII).
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