Lexus IS250 4GR-FSE Engine Carbon Build-up (merged threads)
10-21-10, 08:15 PM
#331
5yr and only 20000 miles? wow
wonder how did the carbon buildup become so bad in just so little of a mileage?
QUESTION:
How many oil changes have you had in these 5 years?
wonder how did the carbon buildup become so bad in just so little of a mileage?
QUESTION:
How many oil changes have you had in these 5 years?
Last edited by chikoo; 10-21-10 at 08:31 PM.
10-22-10, 07:42 AM
#332
They told me the engine had a lot of carbon build up, causing a cylinder misfire. There were 5 working cylinders, out of six. It only had about 20000 miles on it, but it was over 4 years old, so the warranty had expired. A $1000 later I picked up the car from the dealer service department. I was not a happy Lexus owner.
Uh, the engine warranty is 6 years... so you shouldn't have had to pay anything at all if it was actually an engine problem.
10-23-10, 04:52 PM
#333
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The dealership customer service people said the warranty did not cover it. I also contacted the Lexus customer service people. They told me it's not a defect. They mentioned the low octane usage too. So, I had to explain to them that I have always used 93 octane. I've reported the defect problem with the NHTSA Defects Investigation office and sent them additional documentation.
And, the oil has been changed 1-2 times a year.
And, the oil has been changed 1-2 times a year.
10-25-10, 07:45 AM
#335
The dealership customer service people said the warranty did not cover it. I also contacted the Lexus customer service people. They told me it's not a defect. They mentioned the low octane usage too. So, I had to explain to them that I have always used 93 octane. I've reported the defect problem with the NHTSA Defects Investigation office and sent them additional documentation.
And, the oil has been changed 1-2 times a year.
And, the oil has been changed 1-2 times a year.
5 yrs ownership.
20000 miles on the ODO.
4000 miles per year.
OCI = 2000 miles.
Hmm....this brings back the theory that changing oil far too often may also be part of the equation of carbon buildup.
10-25-10, 03:48 PM
#336
The dealership customer service people said the warranty did not cover it. I also contacted the Lexus customer service people. They told me it's not a defect. They mentioned the low octane usage too. So, I had to explain to them that I have always used 93 octane. I've reported the defect problem with the NHTSA Defects Investigation office and sent them additional documentation.
And, the oil has been changed 1-2 times a year.
And, the oil has been changed 1-2 times a year.
I drive mostly highway and as mentioned before the fact that I'm traveling at a constant velocity can be a cause due to the way gases work inside the engine.
10-25-10, 06:10 PM
#337
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Short trips in a vehicle that don’t get the oil up to temperature allow moisture to remain in the oil. This dilutes and can ruin the oil. Also the oxygen in H2O form oxides.......But that’s different then carbon build up in the combustion chamber and back side of the valves.
The chamber is where the “bang” happens so it sees very high temperatures ASAP.
Poor fuel (or too rich A/F ratio) can cause excessive carbon in the CC. I say excessive as there is always going to be some carbon on the tops of the pistons etc… With Gulf of Mexico oil spill etc... in the back of my mind I am wondering if we just got crap gas in the USA.
Crankcase ventilation and types of oil used could be a factor as well but we may never know for sure.
I’m changing the plugs in my IS250 tomorrow. Just purchase a bore scope that takes pictures and I am planning to document what I can see in the CC as well as the valves before I do the top end service per the service procedure. Since I have headers, I don't know how meaningful my data will be to others. Also going to get the induction cleaning done later. Hopefully I will be able to get some before/after photos but I don't plan to take the intake off twice just for some pics.....
The chamber is where the “bang” happens so it sees very high temperatures ASAP.
Poor fuel (or too rich A/F ratio) can cause excessive carbon in the CC. I say excessive as there is always going to be some carbon on the tops of the pistons etc… With Gulf of Mexico oil spill etc... in the back of my mind I am wondering if we just got crap gas in the USA.
Crankcase ventilation and types of oil used could be a factor as well but we may never know for sure.I’m changing the plugs in my IS250 tomorrow. Just purchase a bore scope that takes pictures and I am planning to document what I can see in the CC as well as the valves before I do the top end service per the service procedure. Since I have headers, I don't know how meaningful my data will be to others. Also going to get the induction cleaning done later. Hopefully I will be able to get some before/after photos but I don't plan to take the intake off twice just for some pics.....
Last edited by Gaugster; 10-25-10 at 06:25 PM.
10-26-10, 12:54 AM
#338
Hey Gaugster it sounds like there could be several separate issues causing the build up. It would be interesting to see if having different headers reduces this issue, then again it would be pretty confusing seeing as it would be one of many things that can be causing it. Keep us posted on your documentation it would definitely be interesting to see how the internals change after the cleaning.
I sure hope our gas isn't being watered down, although lately after a few tests I've been working on I've been getting really good gas mileage with not so conservative driving... more on that later
I sure hope our gas isn't being watered down, although lately after a few tests I've been working on I've been getting really good gas mileage with not so conservative driving... more on that later
10-26-10, 07:50 PM
#339
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Well I did the service bulletin (L-SB-0029-10) and changed out my spark plugs since I was taking the intake off. This procedure does a great job of cleaning the tops of the piston as well as the chambers. I had some carbon build up on the pistons with #3 being the worst. But all of it was removed using the GM cleaner as per the crappy attached picture.
The cleaner is pooling in the piston dish FWIW. The service worked better that I anticipated.
But…. I also have deposits on the backside of the valve stems which didn’t get cleaned as part of this procedure. The deposits are not as bad as the Audi pictures shown as examples in this thread as mine were only on the valve stems. All the intake runners past the throttle body have an oily coating but that is not uncommon for a car with 50k miles. So my next step is to schedule to have the BG induction service performed. I think my local Toyota dealer does this.
I took pictures with my new digital bore scope but they came out looking like crap mostly. On top of that, the GM cleaner made the plastic lens of the bore scope hazy so I was only able to take a few after shots. Hopefully some Novus plastic polish will fix the lens.
I’ll post the pictures and what not eventually. So far the car is running good but I didn’t have a chance to put many miles on it just yet. The real test will be after the induction service is done anyway.
The cleaner is pooling in the piston dish FWIW. The service worked better that I anticipated.But…. I also have deposits on the backside of the valve stems which didn’t get cleaned as part of this procedure. The deposits are not as bad as the Audi pictures shown as examples in this thread as mine were only on the valve stems. All the intake runners past the throttle body have an oily coating but that is not uncommon for a car with 50k miles. So my next step is to schedule to have the BG induction service performed. I think my local Toyota dealer does this.
I took pictures with my new digital bore scope but they came out looking like crap mostly. On top of that, the GM cleaner made the plastic lens of the bore scope hazy so I was only able to take a few after shots. Hopefully some Novus plastic polish will fix the lens.
I’ll post the pictures and what not eventually. So far the car is running good but I didn’t have a chance to put many miles on it just yet. The real test will be after the induction service is done anyway.
Last edited by Gaugster; 10-29-10 at 02:33 PM.
10-26-10, 11:44 PM
#340
Nice to hear you got it done, I had a feeling it didn't fully clean everything. It's really concerning knowing that behind the valve stems it's still pretty clogged, let me know how your induction service goes. I plan on taking the same route after I clean up my throttle body. It's interesting because now I haven't had the car surge or low idle, I just get this intermittent vibration when I'm at a stop light, mostly felt through the steering wheel. As I'm driving in the highway the ride seems a bit more jagged, and when it's not present it doesn't feel that way. That's one of the reasons I'm leaning towards cleaning the throttle body.
Gaugster did you do the top engine cleaning yourself?
Gaugster did you do the top engine cleaning yourself?
Last edited by XhyDra; 10-27-10 at 11:09 AM.
10-27-10, 09:54 AM
#342
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I was *this* close to buying an IS 250, but after reading this I'm not so sure, and have started to look at the G35 and CTS.
From reading this thread this problem appears to affect all IS 250's, does anyone NOT have this problem? Also, is it something that will eventually damage the engine, or just cause it to stutter at stop lights?
I see so many other threads about how great these cars are, and then this one just sticks out like a sore thumb, and appears to be a serious flaw in the design of the engine.
From reading this thread this problem appears to affect all IS 250's, does anyone NOT have this problem? Also, is it something that will eventually damage the engine, or just cause it to stutter at stop lights?
I see so many other threads about how great these cars are, and then this one just sticks out like a sore thumb, and appears to be a serious flaw in the design of the engine.
10-27-10, 10:07 AM
#343
^ In all seriousness don't let this persuade you to avoid buying one. It's not as serious as it appears. There are many people with over 120k still running strong. Every vehicle has small issues and it's not to say that buying any other brand or model will avoid it. Just look through other car forums, for example BMW 335i have several serious issues that can go wrong. Look at Audi they have some serious carbon build up problems. Till this day I'm very happy with my purchase and I wouldn't have it any other way. It really is low maintenance and I have plenty of miles to show for.
To be fair, it appears that there could be some changes in the 2011's that would render this issue obsolete. Although some confirmation on those changes would be greatly appreciated by any techs or insiders.
To be fair, it appears that there could be some changes in the 2011's that would render this issue obsolete. Although some confirmation on those changes would be greatly appreciated by any techs or insiders.
10-27-10, 10:26 AM
#344
I am at 31k and no signs of this problem.
However, I am now going to make sure that I use ONLY CHEVRON gas which comes loaded with TECHRON.
http://www.chevron.com/products/tips...ID=2331&cID=35
However, I am now going to make sure that I use ONLY CHEVRON gas which comes loaded with TECHRON.
It’s true. All grades of Chevron gasoline contain a highly effective amount of Techron, so no matter which grade your car takes, it’s getting the quality and unsurpassed cleaning power of Chevron with Techron.
Last edited by chikoo; 10-28-10 at 04:14 PM. Reason: typo
10-28-10, 09:44 AM
#345
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I was *this* close to buying an IS 250, but after reading this I'm not so sure, and have started to look at the G35 and CTS.
From reading this thread this problem appears to affect all IS 250's, does anyone NOT have this problem? Also, is it something that will eventually damage the engine, or just cause it to stutter at stop lights?
I see so many other threads about how great these cars are, and then this one just sticks out like a sore thumb, and appears to be a serious flaw in the design of the engine.
From reading this thread this problem appears to affect all IS 250's, does anyone NOT have this problem? Also, is it something that will eventually damage the engine, or just cause it to stutter at stop lights?
I see so many other threads about how great these cars are, and then this one just sticks out like a sore thumb, and appears to be a serious flaw in the design of the engine.
Now I just need to establish a mileage interval for the BG induction cleaning that my local Toyota dealer performs. BG recommends every 15k. Whereas Toyota was thinking more like 20-30k miles.
I will just monitor the valve stems with my bore scope and have it done as required.