Lexus IS250 4GR-FSE Engine Carbon Build-up (merged threads)
10-28-10, 05:22 PM
#347
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Yes, I did the Lexus top engine clean myself per the procedure and changed plugs even though they were fine. The owners manual recommends 60k replacement interval but there is a note that it is due to emission standard. So like others have reported, you can probably get much more that 60k usage. Mine appeared to have absolutely no wear at all.
The next day I had Toyota perform the BG induction cleaning service that fogs the Throttle body, intake etc... Put 100 miles on the car today and it is running great. I tried to get some borescope pictures after the BG cleaning but was unable to route the camera head through the intake down near a valve seat. Just too many twists and turns. Maybe I will try again someday....?
Here's a link to the BEFORE photos I took with my new borescope toy.
Unfortunatly, most of them are very dark even after I boosted the contrast etc... The numbers after the "-" in the file names indicate cylinder #.
For reference. 50k miles, 4+yrs old, Mobil 1 EXT 5W-20 changed every 10k, New oil filter every 5k, Mobil 93 octane mostly, Daily Driver.
http://s432.photobucket.com/albums/q...ion%204GR-FSE/
The next day I had Toyota perform the BG induction cleaning service that fogs the Throttle body, intake etc... Put 100 miles on the car today and it is running great. I tried to get some borescope pictures after the BG cleaning but was unable to route the camera head through the intake down near a valve seat. Just too many twists and turns. Maybe I will try again someday....?
Here's a link to the BEFORE photos I took with my new borescope toy.
Unfortunatly, most of them are very dark even after I boosted the contrast etc... The numbers after the "-" in the file names indicate cylinder #.
For reference. 50k miles, 4+yrs old, Mobil 1 EXT 5W-20 changed every 10k, New oil filter every 5k, Mobil 93 octane mostly, Daily Driver.
http://s432.photobucket.com/albums/q...ion%204GR-FSE/
Last edited by Gaugster; 10-29-10 at 02:34 PM.
10-29-10, 03:22 PM
#348
Top tier gas would help?
What is TOP TIER Gasoline designation?
In 2004, BMW, General Motors, Honda and Toyota established the TOP TIER program, which established criteria for detergency levels in Gasoline higher than those currently set by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA). This standard established requirements for the design of Gasolines that keep engine parts cleaner than lower-quality Gasolines by providing reduced fuel-related deposits, resulting in better engine performance. Texaco and Chevron Gasolines with Techron were the first designated as meeting the tough TOP TIER specifications in the U.S., and they didn't even have to adjust their formulae—they were already that good!
All gasolines in the U.S. are required to contain an additive. What makes gasolines with Techron different?
Federal regulations require that all gasolines in the U.S. contain a deposit control (DC) additive. The lowest-additive concentration necessary to pass all the EPA required tests is called the LAC level. Many companies use the LAC level in their gasolines. As a result, some gasolines provide better deposit control performance than others because these companies use DC additives that are more effective, have fewer side effects, and/or because they add them at higher concentrations.
What symptoms might occur if I use lower-quality gasolines?
Deposits on fuel injectors can affect the way the fuel vaporizes and burns, which can impact the way your engine starts and how smoothly it runs. They can also affect fuel economy and emissions. Intake valve deposits also can affect emissions and—if heavy enough—can reduce power. Combustion chamber deposits affect your octane number requirement, which can cause you to need fuel with a higher octane level.
Is Techron going to be in Texaco fuels in the U.S. only?
No, North America was only the beginning. Texaco also offers fuels with Techron in parts of Latin America, and is planning to introduce the Techron additive in many countries around the world.
What's the difference between the Techron additive and Techron Concentrate?
Although Techron Concentrate is not precisely the same formulation as used in our gasolines, its formulation is derived from the same unsurpassed polyether amine chemistry. Roughly speaking, it is about 10 times stronger than the formulation added to our retail gasolines. If you use a Chevron-family gasoline (Texaco and Chevron with Techron) regularly, you shouldn't need to use a concentrate unless you have a particularly sensitive vehicle or use your vehicle in very severe conditions. However, if you consistently or even intermittently use a lower-quality gasoline, using a powerful after-market concentrate such as Techron Concentrate can keep out deposits which may have developed on vital engine parts in a single tankful of gasoline.
Are all fuel injector systems the same?
No. There are three main types.
A system that has the injector in the throttle body, mounted on the air intake manifold, is called a throttle body injection system. A system that uses one injector at the intake port of each cylinder, where it sprays on the intake valves, is called a port fuel injection system. A central port fuel injection system uses a central distribution valve connected to spring-loaded poppet nozzles by tubes that run down each inlet manifold leg to spray fuel on the intake valves.
Several strategies are used to time fuel injection. Some older throttle body injectors and port fuel injection (PFI) systems inject fuel almost continuously, much like a carburetor. Intermittent injection systems fire the injectors simultaneously to deliver the same quantity of fuel to each cylinder. These systems sometimes deliver fuel twice per cycle. Sequential injection systems fire injectors sequentially at the same crankshaft angle on each cycle. Fuel quantity is metered by controlling the time the injector is open (pulse width).
In 2004, BMW, General Motors, Honda and Toyota established the TOP TIER program, which established criteria for detergency levels in Gasoline higher than those currently set by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA). This standard established requirements for the design of Gasolines that keep engine parts cleaner than lower-quality Gasolines by providing reduced fuel-related deposits, resulting in better engine performance. Texaco and Chevron Gasolines with Techron were the first designated as meeting the tough TOP TIER specifications in the U.S., and they didn't even have to adjust their formulae—they were already that good!
All gasolines in the U.S. are required to contain an additive. What makes gasolines with Techron different?
Federal regulations require that all gasolines in the U.S. contain a deposit control (DC) additive. The lowest-additive concentration necessary to pass all the EPA required tests is called the LAC level. Many companies use the LAC level in their gasolines. As a result, some gasolines provide better deposit control performance than others because these companies use DC additives that are more effective, have fewer side effects, and/or because they add them at higher concentrations.
What symptoms might occur if I use lower-quality gasolines?
Deposits on fuel injectors can affect the way the fuel vaporizes and burns, which can impact the way your engine starts and how smoothly it runs. They can also affect fuel economy and emissions. Intake valve deposits also can affect emissions and—if heavy enough—can reduce power. Combustion chamber deposits affect your octane number requirement, which can cause you to need fuel with a higher octane level.
Is Techron going to be in Texaco fuels in the U.S. only?
No, North America was only the beginning. Texaco also offers fuels with Techron in parts of Latin America, and is planning to introduce the Techron additive in many countries around the world.
What's the difference between the Techron additive and Techron Concentrate?
Although Techron Concentrate is not precisely the same formulation as used in our gasolines, its formulation is derived from the same unsurpassed polyether amine chemistry. Roughly speaking, it is about 10 times stronger than the formulation added to our retail gasolines. If you use a Chevron-family gasoline (Texaco and Chevron with Techron) regularly, you shouldn't need to use a concentrate unless you have a particularly sensitive vehicle or use your vehicle in very severe conditions. However, if you consistently or even intermittently use a lower-quality gasoline, using a powerful after-market concentrate such as Techron Concentrate can keep out deposits which may have developed on vital engine parts in a single tankful of gasoline.
Are all fuel injector systems the same?
No. There are three main types.
A system that has the injector in the throttle body, mounted on the air intake manifold, is called a throttle body injection system. A system that uses one injector at the intake port of each cylinder, where it sprays on the intake valves, is called a port fuel injection system. A central port fuel injection system uses a central distribution valve connected to spring-loaded poppet nozzles by tubes that run down each inlet manifold leg to spray fuel on the intake valves.
Several strategies are used to time fuel injection. Some older throttle body injectors and port fuel injection (PFI) systems inject fuel almost continuously, much like a carburetor. Intermittent injection systems fire the injectors simultaneously to deliver the same quantity of fuel to each cylinder. These systems sometimes deliver fuel twice per cycle. Sequential injection systems fire injectors sequentially at the same crankshaft angle on each cycle. Fuel quantity is metered by controlling the time the injector is open (pulse width).
10-29-10, 04:48 PM
#349
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^ Nope. Mobil is considered Top Tier as well and it didn't seem to help much in my case. Thanks for copying Chevron's website. You must be a Techron Fanboy or somthing. Jk'n.... Since the intake is dry, fuel additives can only clean the combustion chamber.
I am going to switch to Shell as they seem to be the best gas around my parts. No Chevron or Texaco stations withing 50 miles of me. But I could buy Techron additives at the store. Also Shell's website has a specific write up about direct injection engines.
http://www.shell.us/home/content/usa.../about_vpower/
The Audi RS4 stuff online was from engines running on Shell and it did no good. Luckily my engine had much less deposits then the Audi / VW guys. Regardless of which gas is used, I think carbon build up is something that anyone with a DI engine will have to deal with at some time. Now I know what to do. I just need to find a service interval that is best. Only time will tell.
I am going to switch to Shell as they seem to be the best gas around my parts. No Chevron or Texaco stations withing 50 miles of me. But I could buy Techron additives at the store. Also Shell's website has a specific write up about direct injection engines.
http://www.shell.us/home/content/usa.../about_vpower/
The Audi RS4 stuff online was from engines running on Shell and it did no good. Luckily my engine had much less deposits then the Audi / VW guys. Regardless of which gas is used, I think carbon build up is something that anyone with a DI engine will have to deal with at some time. Now I know what to do. I just need to find a service interval that is best. Only time will tell.
Last edited by Gaugster; 10-29-10 at 04:53 PM.
10-29-10, 06:17 PM
#350
I was *this* close to buying an IS 250, but after reading this I'm not so sure, and have started to look at the G35 and CTS.
From reading this thread this problem appears to affect all IS 250's, does anyone NOT have this problem? Also, is it something that will eventually damage the engine, or just cause it to stutter at stop lights?
I see so many other threads about how great these cars are, and then this one just sticks out like a sore thumb, and appears to be a serious flaw in the design of the engine.
From reading this thread this problem appears to affect all IS 250's, does anyone NOT have this problem? Also, is it something that will eventually damage the engine, or just cause it to stutter at stop lights?
I see so many other threads about how great these cars are, and then this one just sticks out like a sore thumb, and appears to be a serious flaw in the design of the engine.
10-29-10, 07:38 PM
#351
Gaugster, i read around, esp bitog, and chevron/techron is highly recommended there. From what i understood PEA even prevents deposits. So if carbon can travel to places where no fuel goes, what is to say that the PEA will also not be able to get there?
10-30-10, 05:36 AM
#352
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So anything is possible I suppose. But if Chevron is so good, why are there only 5 gas stations in the whole of Illnois????
BITOG....
10-30-10, 08:50 AM
#353
Well for one, PEA is in the unburned fuel. Carbon from EGR (Exhaust Gas Recirulation) is just that; exhaust gas after ignition. Carbon from PCV (Postive Crankcase Ventilation) comes from the engine oil itself.
So anything is possible I suppose. But if Chevron is so good, why are there only 5 gas stations in the whole of Illnois????
BITOG....
So anything is possible I suppose. But if Chevron is so good, why are there only 5 gas stations in the whole of Illnois????
BITOG....
just 2 months ago.That was good explanation Gaugster. So the exhaust gas going out of the exhaust valves are being fed back in to the intake line. Is there any way to hack that intake and mod it so that we can attach a can of Techron to it? As the air flows in, so will the Techron (at a controlled rate of course) and keep the intake valves clean as a whistle!!!!
10-30-10, 08:57 AM
#355
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There are none arround my residence too but as luck has it, there is a spanking brand new one that opened up about 1.5 miles from my work place just 2 months ago.
That was good explanation Gaugster. So the exhaust gas going out of the exhaust valves are being fed back in to the intake line. Is there any way to hack that intake and mod it so that we can attach a can of Techron to it? As the air flows in, so will the Techron (at a controlled rate of course) and keep the intake valves clean as a whistle!!!!
just 2 months ago.That was good explanation Gaugster. So the exhaust gas going out of the exhaust valves are being fed back in to the intake line. Is there any way to hack that intake and mod it so that we can attach a can of Techron to it? As the air flows in, so will the Techron (at a controlled rate of course) and keep the intake valves clean as a whistle!!!!
It makes me think that a wet NOS kit could be required to improve the vehicles emission. GREEN NOS.............
10-30-10, 09:03 AM
#356
Haha - my understanding is that the cams are timed to let some exhaust get pushed back into the intake from the chamber. It is hard to see from the pictures but the main intake valves have the thick gummy looking deposits whereas the secondary intake valves have a dry ashy looking deposit. So no external EGR from which to add any sort of catch-can device
It makes me think that a wet NOS kit could be required to improve the vehicles emission. GREEN NOS.............
It makes me think that a wet NOS kit could be required to improve the vehicles emission. GREEN NOS.............
10-30-10, 11:21 AM
#358
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http://www.bgfindashop.com/locator/index.php