Lexus IS250 4GR-FSE Engine Carbon Build-up (merged threads)
11-09-11, 11:46 AM
#586
Some SA's will take your word for it when it comes to a decarb, but for the new LSB it requires that the car have missfires before any work can be considered.
I figure this is one sure method that's worked for me before so why wouldn't it work for everyone else.
I figure this is one sure method that's worked for me before so why wouldn't it work for everyone else.
11-09-11, 06:08 PM
#587
Mine told me the recall they were doing was not helpful and that there was another one, the master tech or manager or whatever had told her when they were able to re-create my problem so they told me they are going to confirm with corporate make sure they have everything and knock it out. Sucks that I have to go back but at least they know about it.
11-16-11, 11:54 AM
#588
This TSIB applies to vehicles produced BEFORE the Production Change Effective VINs shown below.
MODEL PLANT DRIVETRAIN PRODUCTION CHANGE EFFECTIVE VIN
2WD JTHBF5C2#A5111618
Tahara
4WD JTHCF5C2#A5038287
2WD JTHBF5C2#A2095102
IS 250
TMK
4WD JTHCF5C2#A2032832
MODEL PLANT DRIVETRAIN PRODUCTION CHANGE EFFECTIVE VIN
2WD JTHBF5C2#A5111618
Tahara
4WD JTHCF5C2#A5038287
2WD JTHBF5C2#A2095102
IS 250
TMK
4WD JTHCF5C2#A2032832
11-22-11, 06:25 PM
#590
Driver School Candidate
Hi club lexus,
First post.
We're looking at buying a used IS250 awd for my wife. After searching for info on the car I've become concerned about this carbon build up issue. I've generally read through this thread, although admittedly I haven't read all of it. It seems fair to sum up the carbon issue as this: The earlier 4gr-fse engines have a carbon build up issue on the intake valves due in part to direct injection. The most likely cause of this is issue is the EGR gasses being passed back around and depositing carbon on the intake valves. The other possible cause is the PCV system depositing carbon on the intake valves, but this is the lower probability cause as it appears to be evenly built up on all intake valves, and it would be expected to build up more on the valves closest to where the PCV is ported to manifold vacuum.
It also appears that the 4gr has a 7th injector for cold start up, but possibly does not provide enough fuel routinely enough to clean the intake valves (or at least not on some engines).
Today I called Lexus to see what they would tell me about this issue. I've had 3 Landcruisers, currently own one, a hand full of pickups, and also currently own a ltd 4runner. I've had very good reliability from Mr. T. I am a bit disappointed with Lexus on this one. IMO they have dropped the ball big time. Not sure if I'm still wanting to buy one. Anyway , lexus told me directly that the pistons and rings had changed - straight from the horse's mouth on that one. Lexus also told me to call a local service dept. for more information. So I did. The local service manager told me that they had never had the idle issue, nor had he ever performed either the top engine clean or the L-SB-00086-11 piston ring replacement.
I live in SLC, Utah This got me thinking that, if the service guy was honest with me, that possibly the issue is prevalent in warm weather climates, but not cold. Possibly the cold weather injector in cold climates runs for a few minutes before it reaches closed circuit mode and that effectively cleans the intake valves over the course of the winter and solves the problem.
What are you thoughts on the possibility of this being the case? Does anyone have the idle issue that lives in a cold weather climate? Does it ever happen when the temps are below freezing?
Finally - if this is in fact the case, it could be an easy solution to interrupt the engine temp sensor and trick the ECU into pushing some fuel through the cold weather injector every now and then. Could be relatively simple to program a little interrupter circuit with a chip programmed to delay the full temp signal for 30 seconds on start up every time or ever 10th start up or something like that.
Thanks for any info on that. I'm interested to know if anyone in cold weather climates has had this problem.
Thanks,
jetboy.
First post.
We're looking at buying a used IS250 awd for my wife. After searching for info on the car I've become concerned about this carbon build up issue. I've generally read through this thread, although admittedly I haven't read all of it. It seems fair to sum up the carbon issue as this: The earlier 4gr-fse engines have a carbon build up issue on the intake valves due in part to direct injection. The most likely cause of this is issue is the EGR gasses being passed back around and depositing carbon on the intake valves. The other possible cause is the PCV system depositing carbon on the intake valves, but this is the lower probability cause as it appears to be evenly built up on all intake valves, and it would be expected to build up more on the valves closest to where the PCV is ported to manifold vacuum.
It also appears that the 4gr has a 7th injector for cold start up, but possibly does not provide enough fuel routinely enough to clean the intake valves (or at least not on some engines).
Today I called Lexus to see what they would tell me about this issue. I've had 3 Landcruisers, currently own one, a hand full of pickups, and also currently own a ltd 4runner. I've had very good reliability from Mr. T. I am a bit disappointed with Lexus on this one. IMO they have dropped the ball big time. Not sure if I'm still wanting to buy one. Anyway , lexus told me directly that the pistons and rings had changed - straight from the horse's mouth on that one. Lexus also told me to call a local service dept. for more information. So I did. The local service manager told me that they had never had the idle issue, nor had he ever performed either the top engine clean or the L-SB-00086-11 piston ring replacement.
I live in SLC, Utah This got me thinking that, if the service guy was honest with me, that possibly the issue is prevalent in warm weather climates, but not cold. Possibly the cold weather injector in cold climates runs for a few minutes before it reaches closed circuit mode and that effectively cleans the intake valves over the course of the winter and solves the problem.
What are you thoughts on the possibility of this being the case? Does anyone have the idle issue that lives in a cold weather climate? Does it ever happen when the temps are below freezing?
Finally - if this is in fact the case, it could be an easy solution to interrupt the engine temp sensor and trick the ECU into pushing some fuel through the cold weather injector every now and then. Could be relatively simple to program a little interrupter circuit with a chip programmed to delay the full temp signal for 30 seconds on start up every time or ever 10th start up or something like that.
Thanks for any info on that. I'm interested to know if anyone in cold weather climates has had this problem.
Thanks,
jetboy.
11-22-11, 07:05 PM
#591
Hi club lexus,
First post.
We're looking at buying a used IS250 awd for my wife. After searching for info on the car I've become concerned about this carbon build up issue. I've generally read through this thread, although admittedly I haven't read all of it. It seems fair to sum up the carbon issue as this: The earlier 4gr-fse engines have a carbon build up issue on the intake valves due in part to direct injection. The most likely cause of this is issue is the EGR gasses being passed back around and depositing carbon on the intake valves. The other possible cause is the PCV system depositing carbon on the intake valves, but this is the lower probability cause as it appears to be evenly built up on all intake valves, and it would be expected to build up more on the valves closest to where the PCV is ported to manifold vacuum.
It also appears that the 4gr has a 7th injector for cold start up, but possibly does not provide enough fuel routinely enough to clean the intake valves (or at least not on some engines).
Today I called Lexus to see what they would tell me about this issue. I've had 3 Landcruisers, currently own one, a hand full of pickups, and also currently own a ltd 4runner. I've had very good reliability from Mr. T. I am a bit disappointed with Lexus on this one. IMO they have dropped the ball big time. Not sure if I'm still wanting to buy one. Anyway , lexus told me directly that the pistons and rings had changed - straight from the horse's mouth on that one. Lexus also told me to call a local service dept. for more information. So I did. The local service manager told me that they had never had the idle issue, nor had he ever performed either the top engine clean or the L-SB-00086-11 piston ring replacement.
I live in SLC, Utah This got me thinking that, if the service guy was honest with me, that possibly the issue is prevalent in warm weather climates, but not cold. Possibly the cold weather injector in cold climates runs for a few minutes before it reaches closed circuit mode and that effectively cleans the intake valves over the course of the winter and solves the problem.
What are you thoughts on the possibility of this being the case? Does anyone have the idle issue that lives in a cold weather climate? Does it ever happen when the temps are below freezing?
Finally - if this is in fact the case, it could be an easy solution to interrupt the engine temp sensor and trick the ECU into pushing some fuel through the cold weather injector every now and then. Could be relatively simple to program a little interrupter circuit with a chip programmed to delay the full temp signal for 30 seconds on start up every time or ever 10th start up or something like that.
Thanks for any info on that. I'm interested to know if anyone in cold weather climates has had this problem.
Thanks,
jetboy.
First post.
We're looking at buying a used IS250 awd for my wife. After searching for info on the car I've become concerned about this carbon build up issue. I've generally read through this thread, although admittedly I haven't read all of it. It seems fair to sum up the carbon issue as this: The earlier 4gr-fse engines have a carbon build up issue on the intake valves due in part to direct injection. The most likely cause of this is issue is the EGR gasses being passed back around and depositing carbon on the intake valves. The other possible cause is the PCV system depositing carbon on the intake valves, but this is the lower probability cause as it appears to be evenly built up on all intake valves, and it would be expected to build up more on the valves closest to where the PCV is ported to manifold vacuum.
It also appears that the 4gr has a 7th injector for cold start up, but possibly does not provide enough fuel routinely enough to clean the intake valves (or at least not on some engines).
Today I called Lexus to see what they would tell me about this issue. I've had 3 Landcruisers, currently own one, a hand full of pickups, and also currently own a ltd 4runner. I've had very good reliability from Mr. T. I am a bit disappointed with Lexus on this one. IMO they have dropped the ball big time. Not sure if I'm still wanting to buy one. Anyway , lexus told me directly that the pistons and rings had changed - straight from the horse's mouth on that one. Lexus also told me to call a local service dept. for more information. So I did. The local service manager told me that they had never had the idle issue, nor had he ever performed either the top engine clean or the L-SB-00086-11 piston ring replacement.
I live in SLC, Utah This got me thinking that, if the service guy was honest with me, that possibly the issue is prevalent in warm weather climates, but not cold. Possibly the cold weather injector in cold climates runs for a few minutes before it reaches closed circuit mode and that effectively cleans the intake valves over the course of the winter and solves the problem.
What are you thoughts on the possibility of this being the case? Does anyone have the idle issue that lives in a cold weather climate? Does it ever happen when the temps are below freezing?
Finally - if this is in fact the case, it could be an easy solution to interrupt the engine temp sensor and trick the ECU into pushing some fuel through the cold weather injector every now and then. Could be relatively simple to program a little interrupter circuit with a chip programmed to delay the full temp signal for 30 seconds on start up every time or ever 10th start up or something like that.
Thanks for any info on that. I'm interested to know if anyone in cold weather climates has had this problem.
Thanks,
jetboy.
11-22-11, 09:32 PM
#592
Hi club lexus,
First post.
We're looking at buying a used IS250 awd for my wife. After searching for info on the car I've become concerned about this carbon build up issue. I've generally read through this thread, although admittedly I haven't read all of it. It seems fair to sum up the carbon issue as this: The earlier 4gr-fse engines have a carbon build up issue on the intake valves due in part to direct injection. The most likely cause of this is issue is the EGR gasses being passed back around and depositing carbon on the intake valves. The other possible cause is the PCV system depositing carbon on the intake valves, but this is the lower probability cause as it appears to be evenly built up on all intake valves, and it would be expected to build up more on the valves closest to where the PCV is ported to manifold vacuum.
It also appears that the 4gr has a 7th injector for cold start up, but possibly does not provide enough fuel routinely enough to clean the intake valves (or at least not on some engines).
Today I called Lexus to see what they would tell me about this issue. I've had 3 Landcruisers, currently own one, a hand full of pickups, and also currently own a ltd 4runner. I've had very good reliability from Mr. T. I am a bit disappointed with Lexus on this one. IMO they have dropped the ball big time. Not sure if I'm still wanting to buy one. Anyway , lexus told me directly that the pistons and rings had changed - straight from the horse's mouth on that one. Lexus also told me to call a local service dept. for more information. So I did. The local service manager told me that they had never had the idle issue, nor had he ever performed either the top engine clean or the L-SB-00086-11 piston ring replacement.
I live in SLC, Utah This got me thinking that, if the service guy was honest with me, that possibly the issue is prevalent in warm weather climates, but not cold. Possibly the cold weather injector in cold climates runs for a few minutes before it reaches closed circuit mode and that effectively cleans the intake valves over the course of the winter and solves the problem.
What are you thoughts on the possibility of this being the case? Does anyone have the idle issue that lives in a cold weather climate? Does it ever happen when the temps are below freezing?
Finally - if this is in fact the case, it could be an easy solution to interrupt the engine temp sensor and trick the ECU into pushing some fuel through the cold weather injector every now and then. Could be relatively simple to program a little interrupter circuit with a chip programmed to delay the full temp signal for 30 seconds on start up every time or ever 10th start up or something like that.
Thanks for any info on that. I'm interested to know if anyone in cold weather climates has had this problem.
Thanks,
jetboy.
First post.
We're looking at buying a used IS250 awd for my wife. After searching for info on the car I've become concerned about this carbon build up issue. I've generally read through this thread, although admittedly I haven't read all of it. It seems fair to sum up the carbon issue as this: The earlier 4gr-fse engines have a carbon build up issue on the intake valves due in part to direct injection. The most likely cause of this is issue is the EGR gasses being passed back around and depositing carbon on the intake valves. The other possible cause is the PCV system depositing carbon on the intake valves, but this is the lower probability cause as it appears to be evenly built up on all intake valves, and it would be expected to build up more on the valves closest to where the PCV is ported to manifold vacuum.
It also appears that the 4gr has a 7th injector for cold start up, but possibly does not provide enough fuel routinely enough to clean the intake valves (or at least not on some engines).
Today I called Lexus to see what they would tell me about this issue. I've had 3 Landcruisers, currently own one, a hand full of pickups, and also currently own a ltd 4runner. I've had very good reliability from Mr. T. I am a bit disappointed with Lexus on this one. IMO they have dropped the ball big time. Not sure if I'm still wanting to buy one. Anyway , lexus told me directly that the pistons and rings had changed - straight from the horse's mouth on that one. Lexus also told me to call a local service dept. for more information. So I did. The local service manager told me that they had never had the idle issue, nor had he ever performed either the top engine clean or the L-SB-00086-11 piston ring replacement.
I live in SLC, Utah This got me thinking that, if the service guy was honest with me, that possibly the issue is prevalent in warm weather climates, but not cold. Possibly the cold weather injector in cold climates runs for a few minutes before it reaches closed circuit mode and that effectively cleans the intake valves over the course of the winter and solves the problem.
What are you thoughts on the possibility of this being the case? Does anyone have the idle issue that lives in a cold weather climate? Does it ever happen when the temps are below freezing?
Finally - if this is in fact the case, it could be an easy solution to interrupt the engine temp sensor and trick the ECU into pushing some fuel through the cold weather injector every now and then. Could be relatively simple to program a little interrupter circuit with a chip programmed to delay the full temp signal for 30 seconds on start up every time or ever 10th start up or something like that.
Thanks for any info on that. I'm interested to know if anyone in cold weather climates has had this problem.
Thanks,
jetboy.
I can assure you that these cars are very dependable with little maintenance. This issue has been adressed already and has a fix for it. Piston replacements in the event that the car builds too much carbon on the valves and such. Before there was only a top engine cleaning, but that has been succeeded by the overhaul of several engine parts. Due in part to completely eliminate the issue.
Remember every vehicle can have carbon deposits, GM vehicles are notorious for this, GM didn't make the top engine cleaning solution for nothing. As far as fixing the issue most if not all manufacturers just do a small fix, a simple yet time consuming top engine cleaning. Lexus went far and beyond the call of duty to re-engineer new pistons, piston rings and valve retainers. This is by far a sign of confidence on Lexus's part. Why patch the issue when you can eliminate it all together.
If you decide on buying a Lexus just make sure you get one with existing warranty and purchase an extended warranty that will give you piece of mind.
11-23-11, 05:59 AM
#593
I did a BGK-44 treatment where they install it on the intake like a IV bag and put some in my fuel along with the water recommendation given in this thread and my rough idle is gone. Question is for how long?
So far it's been 5 weeks.
For now, I'm happy.
So far it's been 5 weeks.
For now, I'm happy.
11-23-11, 10:16 AM
#594
It's also been posted that changing your oil too often and using crappy premium gas or lower octane gas builds up the Carbon too.
11-23-11, 10:23 AM
#596
Driver School Candidate
Hey nice to hear about your interest on the AWD IS250. This issue should not steer you away from purchasing a Lexus. In no way has this ever been linked to complete malfunction of any vehicle. Carbon deposits are rather a normal thing in many vehicles out on the road. If anything this engine model just gets a bit groggy when and if it has a lot of build up. The basic charasteristics of a DI engine what can I say. This car has been 100% dependable to me & countless other owners that have put a great deal of miles on the vehicle.
I can assure you that these cars are very dependable with little maintenance. This issue has been adressed already and has a fix for it. Piston replacements in the event that the car builds too much carbon on the valves and such. Before there was only a top engine cleaning, but that has been succeeded by the overhaul of several engine parts. Due in part to completely eliminate the issue.
Remember every vehicle can have carbon deposits, GM vehicles are notorious for this, GM didn't make the top engine cleaning solution for nothing. As far as fixing the issue most if not all manufacturers just do a small fix, a simple yet time consuming top engine cleaning. Lexus went far and beyond the call of duty to re-engineer new pistons, piston rings and valve retainers. This is by far a sign of confidence on Lexus's part. Why patch the issue when you can eliminate it all together.
If you decide on buying a Lexus just make sure you get one with existing warranty and purchase an extended warranty that will give you piece of mind.
I can assure you that these cars are very dependable with little maintenance. This issue has been adressed already and has a fix for it. Piston replacements in the event that the car builds too much carbon on the valves and such. Before there was only a top engine cleaning, but that has been succeeded by the overhaul of several engine parts. Due in part to completely eliminate the issue.
Remember every vehicle can have carbon deposits, GM vehicles are notorious for this, GM didn't make the top engine cleaning solution for nothing. As far as fixing the issue most if not all manufacturers just do a small fix, a simple yet time consuming top engine cleaning. Lexus went far and beyond the call of duty to re-engineer new pistons, piston rings and valve retainers. This is by far a sign of confidence on Lexus's part. Why patch the issue when you can eliminate it all together.
If you decide on buying a Lexus just make sure you get one with existing warranty and purchase an extended warranty that will give you piece of mind.
My primary concern is what happens at 150k miles when I'm out of warranty, a valve sticks open, and burns a valve. Then I'm stuck with a $5k repair bill on a car that won't be worth a whole lot more than the cost to repair at that point. I'm not sure whether I'd rather have a carbon issue or an engine rebuild. In my experience, there are very few shops that can rebuild an engine to factory quality. The vast majority end up with significantly shorter life spans after someone has been inside them.
I'm also questioning why piston rings would solve this issue. If they are in fact too loose, that would seem to indicate that Lexus believes the issue is due to blow by and therefore it's a PCV problem, not a EGR. Different pistons and rings should have no effect on EGR. If it is a PCV issue, I'd probably rather just put a coalescing filter inline and leave the internals as they are. Much simpler solution.
Either way, it seems like I'm probably going to be looking at owning one.
I do wonder if I buy one under warranty if I can do something to ensure that I do get the warranty work done.
11-23-11, 11:44 AM
#597
My primary concern is what happens at 150k miles when I'm out of warranty, a valve sticks open, and burns a valve. Then I'm stuck with a $5k repair bill on a car that won't be worth a whole lot more than the cost to repair at that point. I'm not sure whether I'd rather have a carbon issue or an engine rebuild. In my experience, there are very few shops that can rebuild an engine to factory quality. The vast majority end up with significantly shorter life spans after someone has been inside them.
I'm also questioning why piston rings would solve this issue. If they are in fact too loose, that would seem to indicate that Lexus believes the issue is due to blow by and therefore it's a PCV problem, not a EGR. Different pistons and rings should have no effect on EGR. If it is a PCV issue, I'd probably rather just put a coalescing filter inline and leave the internals as they are. Much simpler solution.
Either way, it seems like I'm probably going to be looking at owning one.
I do wonder if I buy one under warranty if I can do something to ensure that I do get the warranty work done.
I'm also questioning why piston rings would solve this issue. If they are in fact too loose, that would seem to indicate that Lexus believes the issue is due to blow by and therefore it's a PCV problem, not a EGR. Different pistons and rings should have no effect on EGR. If it is a PCV issue, I'd probably rather just put a coalescing filter inline and leave the internals as they are. Much simpler solution.
Either way, it seems like I'm probably going to be looking at owning one.
I do wonder if I buy one under warranty if I can do something to ensure that I do get the warranty work done.
The best and easiest way to have warranty work considered past your extended warranty is by having a service history where the concern of rough idling and near stall shaking was brought up to the dealer. That being the case in the event that something outside of your warranty would happen Lexus would consider the repair.
Basic maintenance is by far the best method of reducing this issue. Inductions every 15k and keeping a clean intake system. As well as maintaining the vehicle overall.
11-23-11, 03:39 PM
#598
Listen to what I have to say. Almost crazy but true.
I got the Top end cleaning done and noticed slower throttle tip in. Just my imagination, i say to myself and shrug it off. Next few tanks my mileage drops to 25.5 compared to 27.5+ that i had earlier. I say maybe that is winter fuel issue. But then i remember that last year when I purchased my car, i had 27+ mpg. Wait a minute.
So rather than take it to the dealer and get some advice that makes look crazy, I invest $20 in a can of BG-44k. What a difference it made. I have my throttle tip in like before as well I got 28.5 mpg.
Go figure.
I got the Top end cleaning done and noticed slower throttle tip in. Just my imagination, i say to myself and shrug it off. Next few tanks my mileage drops to 25.5 compared to 27.5+ that i had earlier. I say maybe that is winter fuel issue. But then i remember that last year when I purchased my car, i had 27+ mpg. Wait a minute.
So rather than take it to the dealer and get some advice that makes look crazy, I invest $20 in a can of BG-44k. What a difference it made. I have my throttle tip in like before as well I got 28.5 mpg.
Go figure.
