Lexus IS250 4GR-FSE Engine Carbon Build-up (merged threads)
04-04-12, 08:17 AM
#827
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BG's GDI Service
I finally gave up on Lexus doing anything to resolve my '07s carbon build up problem. You can read my earlier posts detailing my story with this problem -- but its pretty much the same as everyone else's. More frustratingly, is that Houston area Lexus dealers are choosing to ignore and deny that such a problem exists. Corporate is no help. The best I could get was a service adviser at Sterling McCall Lexus to at least admit that he was aware of the carbon build-up. But regardless that my car is still under warranty, I would have to pay the full bill to have them perform the TEC.
So, needing this problem fixed, if I was going to pay to have the carbon cleaned out I decided to explore other options beyond paying Lexus to do it. I came across some info from BG about a GDI cleaning service they had developed and the Lexus IS was one of the vehicles used in their R&D, or something to that effect. Sounded pretty good to me. The problem I ran into, was finding a shop that even had a clue what I was talking about. The several shops I contacted just thought I was talking about BG's induction service -- turns our there's a huge difference.
I ended up getting in touch with a regional BG rep. For the first time, other than in this forum, I was able to speak to somebody that was very knowledgeable about the problem, and more importantly, was talking about solutions. They were able to put me in touch with Skeeter's Auto in Cypress (the guy who has the Car Doctor show on the radio).
To do the GDI service, they remove the intake manifold and spark plugs. Chemicals go in to the cylinder and also into the stem side of the valve. The carbon is then blasted and/or brushed and then vacuumed out. I'm sure there are many more details but this was the basic idea as I understood it. There's also some engine cranking and oil changing involved similar to the Lexus LSB.
My feeling was that this sounded like a more thorough removal of the carbon than the Lexus LSB with the combined advantage that the carbon chunks were not being blown out through the cylinder and the exhaust.
When I got my car back I could instantly tell there was an improvement. It was idling smooth as glass -- I'm talking like a hybrid car's idle feeling from inside the car (ie engine isn't running at all!). I guess maybe we forgot how well this thing ran when it was new. The mechanic had taken some pictures of inside the valve ports and wow they were crazy gunked up. I'm talking like the posters you see at Chevron or wherever of valves "before" using Techron and you're like 'nobody's valves are that freakin dirty'.
It's been nearly three weeks now and there have been ZERO idling problems. The weather has warmed up quite a bit too and I've been cranking the A/C with no problems. I'm also getting a lot more power in the 4k+ RPM range. We love this car again! I was originally planning to get rid of it this year, even before the idling issues, but have now since decided to keep it for another year or two -- perhaps more.
Moving forward I'm using synthetic oil (Mobil 1) and BG's Motor Oil Additive. The BG rep was very confident that if you regularly use the MOA it will keep the valves clean and the carbon build up at bay -- but will do nothing if they are already crudded up. We'll see how it goes over the next 20k or so.
So for those of you in the Houston area that are still putting up with a crappy IS250 idle and want to solve the problem they can do it at Skeeter's Auto in Cypress. And for the rest of you that are out of warranty in other parts of the country find a shop that will do the BG GDI service. Make sure they know exactly what you are talking about. Lookup your regional BG rep and give them a call like I did if you can't seem to find a shop.
I'm still pissed at Lexus, but ultimately needed the car to be reliable again, which I feel that it is once again. Hopefully it will continue to be.
So, needing this problem fixed, if I was going to pay to have the carbon cleaned out I decided to explore other options beyond paying Lexus to do it. I came across some info from BG about a GDI cleaning service they had developed and the Lexus IS was one of the vehicles used in their R&D, or something to that effect. Sounded pretty good to me. The problem I ran into, was finding a shop that even had a clue what I was talking about. The several shops I contacted just thought I was talking about BG's induction service -- turns our there's a huge difference.
I ended up getting in touch with a regional BG rep. For the first time, other than in this forum, I was able to speak to somebody that was very knowledgeable about the problem, and more importantly, was talking about solutions. They were able to put me in touch with Skeeter's Auto in Cypress (the guy who has the Car Doctor show on the radio).
To do the GDI service, they remove the intake manifold and spark plugs. Chemicals go in to the cylinder and also into the stem side of the valve. The carbon is then blasted and/or brushed and then vacuumed out. I'm sure there are many more details but this was the basic idea as I understood it. There's also some engine cranking and oil changing involved similar to the Lexus LSB.
My feeling was that this sounded like a more thorough removal of the carbon than the Lexus LSB with the combined advantage that the carbon chunks were not being blown out through the cylinder and the exhaust.
When I got my car back I could instantly tell there was an improvement. It was idling smooth as glass -- I'm talking like a hybrid car's idle feeling from inside the car (ie engine isn't running at all!). I guess maybe we forgot how well this thing ran when it was new. The mechanic had taken some pictures of inside the valve ports and wow they were crazy gunked up. I'm talking like the posters you see at Chevron or wherever of valves "before" using Techron and you're like 'nobody's valves are that freakin dirty'.
It's been nearly three weeks now and there have been ZERO idling problems. The weather has warmed up quite a bit too and I've been cranking the A/C with no problems. I'm also getting a lot more power in the 4k+ RPM range. We love this car again! I was originally planning to get rid of it this year, even before the idling issues, but have now since decided to keep it for another year or two -- perhaps more.
Moving forward I'm using synthetic oil (Mobil 1) and BG's Motor Oil Additive. The BG rep was very confident that if you regularly use the MOA it will keep the valves clean and the carbon build up at bay -- but will do nothing if they are already crudded up. We'll see how it goes over the next 20k or so.
So for those of you in the Houston area that are still putting up with a crappy IS250 idle and want to solve the problem they can do it at Skeeter's Auto in Cypress. And for the rest of you that are out of warranty in other parts of the country find a shop that will do the BG GDI service. Make sure they know exactly what you are talking about. Lookup your regional BG rep and give them a call like I did if you can't seem to find a shop.
I'm still pissed at Lexus, but ultimately needed the car to be reliable again, which I feel that it is once again. Hopefully it will continue to be.
04-05-12, 05:56 PM
#828
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After I got an oil change done at 70,000 miles I started having this idling issue. It happened several times before but I thought the dealer had fixed it when they did one of the recall/fixes on it.
My car is at 70,900 miles now. Does this mean if I want it fixed I will have to pay for them to change out the pistons??
Sometimes I feel like when I'm stopped and then I hit the gas that the rpm drops a little.
I have a 2007 IS250 and also this June will mark 5 years since I bought the car.
My car is at 70,900 miles now. Does this mean if I want it fixed I will have to pay for them to change out the pistons??
Sometimes I feel like when I'm stopped and then I hit the gas that the rpm drops a little.
I have a 2007 IS250 and also this June will mark 5 years since I bought the car.
Last edited by 250user; 04-05-12 at 06:02 PM.
04-06-12, 05:11 AM
#829
I would call and take it to them. I think they would do it in good will if you've always had it serviced it there. I was told that most of the time the first event is to do the deep cleaning and see if that fixes it. Lexus has a computer they hook up to look for misfires and a camera they put in to see how much carbon has
built up.
built up.
04-06-12, 06:18 AM
#830
CypressIS the prcedure you described is the same as the lexus bulletin.
The bulletin requires the removal of upper and lower manifolds & spark plugs. Then to soak all the cylinders w solution & crank the engine to soak the combustion chamber, let it sit for an hour.
Then turn the engine to get intake valves to close, soak runners n valves n scrape carbon off, then 2 oil changes.
Also BG doesnt have a fix, no one does. Its going to be needed again..
The bulletin requires the removal of upper and lower manifolds & spark plugs. Then to soak all the cylinders w solution & crank the engine to soak the combustion chamber, let it sit for an hour.
Then turn the engine to get intake valves to close, soak runners n valves n scrape carbon off, then 2 oil changes.
Also BG doesnt have a fix, no one does. Its going to be needed again..
04-06-12, 07:33 AM
#831
CypressIS the prcedure you described is the same as the lexus bulletin.
The bulletin requires the removal of upper and lower manifolds & spark plugs. Then to soak all the cylinders w solution & crank the engine to soak the combustion chamber, let it sit for an hour.
Then turn the engine to get intake valves to close, soak runners n valves n scrape carbon off, then 2 oil changes.
Also BG doesnt have a fix, no one does. Its going to be needed again..
The bulletin requires the removal of upper and lower manifolds & spark plugs. Then to soak all the cylinders w solution & crank the engine to soak the combustion chamber, let it sit for an hour.
Then turn the engine to get intake valves to close, soak runners n valves n scrape carbon off, then 2 oil changes.
Also BG doesnt have a fix, no one does. Its going to be needed again..
Cleaning it off isn't a fix, it just makes the symptoms go away until the build up gets bad again.
Even the replacement rings/cylinders that lexus is doing now isn't a "fix" so much as something that'll hopefully slow the buildup significantly so you don't have to do the cleaning as often.
04-06-12, 04:43 PM
#832
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Yeah... the problem is that excessive carbon builds up on the intake valves.
Cleaning it off isn't a fix, it just makes the symptoms go away until the build up gets bad again.
Even the replacement rings/cylinders that lexus is doing now isn't a "fix" so much as something that'll hopefully slow the buildup significantly so you don't have to do the cleaning as often.
Cleaning it off isn't a fix, it just makes the symptoms go away until the build up gets bad again.
Even the replacement rings/cylinders that lexus is doing now isn't a "fix" so much as something that'll hopefully slow the buildup significantly so you don't have to do the cleaning as often.
Do you think they have fixed the issue in these motors in 2012?
04-06-12, 04:56 PM
#834
I doubt there was an engine design change for the 2012 IS250. If there was, it would have been used to fix the carbon issues on earlier IS250. The new rings and pistons only reduces the problem and delays it from happening. But the end is unavoidable...
So far, I haven't been able to reproduce the rough idle. If it does happen again, I'm going to bring in to Lexus since I'm still under the bumper to bumper warranty.
I'm praying for a recall by Lexus to overhaul the engine...
04-06-12, 09:18 PM
#836
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I would call and take it to them. I think they would do it in good will if you've always had it serviced it there. I was told that most of the time the first event is to do the deep cleaning and see if that fixes it. Lexus has a computer they hook up to look for misfires and a camera they put in to see how much carbon has
built up.
built up.
I almost feel like just selling my car and going with BMW or Infinity.
And of course since I got my car back it really hasn't stalled yet so how can I take it back if the problem hasn't occurred again?
Last edited by 250user; 04-06-12 at 09:21 PM.
04-09-12, 11:06 PM
#838
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i just started to notice this problem a few months ago (2009 is250 automatic with 51,000 miles) but i didnt think too much of it. then last month at a stop light it REALLY felt like the car was about to stall. i got so scared i put the car in neutral and started revving the engine because i was afraid it was going to die. its only happened about 4-5 times in the past few months but i think im going to have to take it in soon and get the gunk out.
04-10-12, 04:11 PM
#839
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I was like you I never thought too much about it at first. I can't believe the problem is still in a 2009 is250.
Does anyone know what the time limit or mileage limit is to try and file a lemon lawsuit???
Does anyone know what the time limit or mileage limit is to try and file a lemon lawsuit???
04-10-12, 04:48 PM
#840
BMW dealerships perform wallnut shell blasting on the valves on their DI engines. The procedure costs few hunder. They have a special adapter that goes on the intake port of the head that blasts the wallnut shells and sucks them in at the same time. It completely cleans the valves and resolves any carbon build up issues on the valves and intake ports.
Has anyone done it on the 4GR-FSE?
Has anyone done it on the 4GR-FSE?