DIY oil change, synthetic vs. conventional
03-01-10, 07:55 PM
#16
The way I look at it is this: Dealer charges me $75-$100 for an oil change (which I never take them up on). 6qts of mobil 1 costs $25, plus 5 for the filter. So using synthetic, I save money vs the dealer, spend the same amount as a cheap quick lube place and put better stuff into my car.
Plus that way if I forget and go a bit past 5,000, my OCD doesn't kick into gear
Plus that way if I forget and go a bit past 5,000, my OCD doesn't kick into gear
Any more often than every 10k, unless you're making a ton of very short trips where the engine never warms up, would be literally pouring money down the drain.
Check out the UOA thread, folks get good chemical analysis after 10k changes on conventional oil from these motors, 10k on synthetic would be the bare minimum change I'd consider on M1 for normal driving, and at least double that on something like Amsoil.
03-01-10, 08:07 PM
#17
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I sure hope you're going a lot past 5k using synthetic oil.
Any more often than every 10k, unless you're making a ton of very short trips where the engine never warms up, would be literally pouring money down the drain.
Check out the UOA thread, folks get good chemical analysis after 10k changes on conventional oil from these motors, 10k on synthetic would be the bare minimum change I'd consider on M1 for normal driving, and at least double that on something like Amsoil.
Any more often than every 10k, unless you're making a ton of very short trips where the engine never warms up, would be literally pouring money down the drain.
Check out the UOA thread, folks get good chemical analysis after 10k changes on conventional oil from these motors, 10k on synthetic would be the bare minimum change I'd consider on M1 for normal driving, and at least double that on something like Amsoil.
03-01-10, 10:52 PM
#18
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Be Careful..
Gotta be careful with generic comments like "go at least 10k on syn". If you are not getting UOA's done reg then you have no idea if you could go longer. If you have a bad air filter and lots of crap is getting in the motor then you may need to do 3k. If the motor is new it will have high silica and need some short OCI's to get it out. There are lots of reasons NOT to do long OCI UNLESS you get reg UOA's done and have an average look at your motor/environmental/driving style variables.
But yes you should use syn, all thing being =. I run Penz Plat (well liked and tested at BITOG). i buy it at WalMart and take it to my local ToYo dealer to do it. $20 for Labor and filter.
But yes you should use syn, all thing being =. I run Penz Plat (well liked and tested at BITOG). i buy it at WalMart and take it to my local ToYo dealer to do it. $20 for Labor and filter.
03-01-10, 11:41 PM
#19
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I hear this things all the time...
I my self found a shop run by ex lexus employes and it was a releif to find people who know the IS in and out. I now go to them when ever i need something. They are a AMSOIL dealer so i have them do my oil change for about 70 bucks every 5k miles, but i dont hurry to it and usualy closer to 6k miles.
I my self found a shop run by ex lexus employes and it was a releif to find people who know the IS in and out. I now go to them when ever i need something. They are a AMSOIL dealer so i have them do my oil change for about 70 bucks every 5k miles, but i dont hurry to it and usualy closer to 6k miles.
03-02-10, 05:37 AM
#20
Good thing I didn't make one then. I explicitly said for normal, non-severe duty, driving. Which is true.
Yes, if you neglect all your other normal maintenance you should probably not neglect oil changes. That'd be a pretty weird situation though.
That's completely wrong in this case.
Folks have gone over 10k with the factory fill non-synthetic oil, that is the oil it came with when the car was delivered new. And UOAs showed it was still fine (at least one from Blackstone labs suggested he try 12k OCIs next time instead of 10k)
This is an extremely clean engine, you do not need to do short OCIs unless you're putting it under very severe duty driving (ie tons of short trips and idling), even when it's new.
While it's true you'll need UOAs to know _exactly_ how long you can go on your car, with your specific driving style, there have been enough UOAs on 2ISes posted over the years at this point that the broad statement that, apart from severe duty driving, you can comfortably go 10k+ on synthetic is absolutely correct.
And honestly, even a couple folks who claimed severe duty driving went that long and their UOAs still looked pretty good... this is a VERY clean running engine... I just err a bit on the side of caution there.
Folks have gone over 10k with the factory fill non-synthetic oil, that is the oil it came with when the car was delivered new. And UOAs showed it was still fine (at least one from Blackstone labs suggested he try 12k OCIs next time instead of 10k)
This is an extremely clean engine, you do not need to do short OCIs unless you're putting it under very severe duty driving (ie tons of short trips and idling), even when it's new.
While it's true you'll need UOAs to know _exactly_ how long you can go on your car, with your specific driving style, there have been enough UOAs on 2ISes posted over the years at this point that the broad statement that, apart from severe duty driving, you can comfortably go 10k+ on synthetic is absolutely correct.
And honestly, even a couple folks who claimed severe duty driving went that long and their UOAs still looked pretty good... this is a VERY clean running engine... I just err a bit on the side of caution there.
03-02-10, 07:30 AM
#21
Regardless of how you drive (Severe-whatever) synthetic will provide 10K safe miles. This has been proven!
These engines are very gentle on oil. 10K miles on ANY oil should be fine. NO ONE is harder on their engine then I (Pedal to the metal every chance I get) and I go one year (approx 12 to 15K miles) on Amsoil and my UOAs are showing the oil to be providing safe protection at each change.
As far as comparing dino to synthetic, there is no comparison! Synthetic is far superior to dino in EVERY aspect, period. If you're hard on the engine and/or you plan on extending your oil change intervals, spend the extra money on synthetic.
Koz
These engines are very gentle on oil. 10K miles on ANY oil should be fine. NO ONE is harder on their engine then I (Pedal to the metal every chance I get) and I go one year (approx 12 to 15K miles) on Amsoil and my UOAs are showing the oil to be providing safe protection at each change.
As far as comparing dino to synthetic, there is no comparison! Synthetic is far superior to dino in EVERY aspect, period. If you're hard on the engine and/or you plan on extending your oil change intervals, spend the extra money on synthetic.
Koz
03-02-10, 07:35 AM
#22
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If you dont believe me i would encourage everyone to call Blackstone Labs and discuss this with them. They are the ones that told me that often they see high levels of silica in motors left from assembly. The also say that often when people put after-market AF on a ca r(who otherwise maintain the car well) they let in silica because they dont maintain them, air filters, correctly over time.
I'll try and post my first UOA that says there are high levels of silica due to assembly if i can find it.
What this boils down to is that if you are willing to risk increased wear on your motor just because a few people posted UOA's on a forum then feel free. I am not willing to do that.
I'll try and post my first UOA that says there are high levels of silica due to assembly if i can find it.
What this boils down to is that if you are willing to risk increased wear on your motor just because a few people posted UOA's on a forum then feel free. I am not willing to do that.
03-02-10, 08:14 AM
#24
If you dont believe me i would encourage everyone to call Blackstone Labs and discuss this with them. They are the ones that told me that often they see high levels of silica in motors left from assembly. The also say that often when people put after-market AF on a ca r(who otherwise maintain the car well) they let in silica because they dont maintain them, air filters, correctly over time.
I'll try and post my first UOA that says there are high levels of silica due to assembly if i can find it.
What this boils down to is that if you are willing to risk increased wear on your motor just because a few people posted UOA's on a forum then feel free. I am not willing to do that.
I'll try and post my first UOA that says there are high levels of silica due to assembly if i can find it.
What this boils down to is that if you are willing to risk increased wear on your motor just because a few people posted UOA's on a forum then feel free. I am not willing to do that.
Blackstone is who told the guy who tested his 10k-mile from the factory oil that he'd have been fine running even longer (they suggested he try 11k next time- and again this wasn't even on synthetic, it was the from-the-factory dino oil)
I'd suggest you try reading some of the UOA threads on here before posting again, you'll find it's more than "a few people" who were all told by Blackstone that long OCIs are just fine on this car.
EDIT- Oddly, I found posts by you in the UOA thread... where others were similarly correcting your notion that short OCIs are needed at all... that was over a year ago... short memory?
Last edited by Kurtz; 03-02-10 at 08:29 AM.
03-02-10, 09:17 AM
#26
High silica is normal in all new engines. This condition does not necessarily mean high engine wear. When I send a sample to Blackstone, I always get the (Optional) particle count done. I can tell you that the normal high silica count from break-in does not cause any more wear then normal wear with low silica in our engines and in most Toyota/Lexus engines. I have never heard of any one ever having an oil related engine failure, other then sludge engines or people who just never changed their oil (In an un-modified Toyota engine).
As far as aftermarket air filters; the biggest problem with them is usually debris getting in because of poor fit. I've had a K&N and Blitz filter in and they both had the same UOA counts as an OEM filter. Conclusion - The only real advantage in an aftermarket air filter is some last a lifetime. They really don't even give any hp gains.
I have run the OEM oil filter for 15K miles and it has proved to still provide safe protection (As per UOA).
Koz
As far as aftermarket air filters; the biggest problem with them is usually debris getting in because of poor fit. I've had a K&N and Blitz filter in and they both had the same UOA counts as an OEM filter. Conclusion - The only real advantage in an aftermarket air filter is some last a lifetime. They really don't even give any hp gains.
I have run the OEM oil filter for 15K miles and it has proved to still provide safe protection (As per UOA).
Koz
03-02-10, 12:43 PM
#27
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With the first oil change free from Lexus, isn't the high silica thing moot anyway? Just have the dealer change the oil for free at 5,000, then switch to 10,000 or longer when it's on your own dime.
03-02-10, 01:07 PM
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Kurt, have you ever had YOUR oil done at Blackstone or are you just an internet expert?
Edit- I dont know what you are talking about with my older posts. I was saying that with UOA you could go longer OCI with regular oil. I stand by that. All im saying is that if you want to go long OCI (with any oil) you need to do regular UOA.
Edit- I dont know what you are talking about with my older posts. I was saying that with UOA you could go longer OCI with regular oil. I stand by that. All im saying is that if you want to go long OCI (with any oil) you need to do regular UOA.
Last edited by smoking1; 03-02-10 at 01:20 PM.
03-02-10, 01:13 PM
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I heard somewhere that you should always break an engine in using the regular (dino) oil, and then switch (if you choose to) to fully synthetic at 10,000 Miles.
But this doesn't seem to make sense to me, because I'm sure there are some high end vehicles that come from the factory already using fully synthetic?
Corvette comes to mind, and I just did this search while replying to this thread and found this:
And then I found this on "Synthetic Oil" on Wikipedia:
And one more from Wikipedia on a Consumer reports study:
But this doesn't seem to make sense to me, because I'm sure there are some high end vehicles that come from the factory already using fully synthetic?
Corvette comes to mind, and I just did this search while replying to this thread and found this:
Corvettes have been using Mobil 1® 5W30 synthetic oil as the factory fill since 1992. According to Dave McLellan, the Corvette’s second chief engineer, “The most important reason was that the LT1 engine needed an oil cooler for certain high thermal stress situations. We were concerned that the external oil cooler plumbing, which ran near the exhaust manifold, was vulnerable to manifold heat. Tests with Mobil 1® showed that the engine ran cool enough that an external oil cooler was not even needed.” McLellan also added, “Corvette also used synthetics in Showroom Stock endurance racing for their power steering, manual transmission and axle.”
The lower friction may make them unsuitable for break-in (i.e. the initial run-in period of the vehicle) where friction is desirable to cause wear. Improved engine part machining has made break-in less critical than it once was, though. Many modern cars now come with synthetic oil as a factory fill.
In July 1996, Consumer Reports published the results of a two year motor oil test involving a fleet of 75 New York taxi cabs and found no noticeable advantage of synthetic oil over regular oil.[13] In their article, they noted that "Big-city cabs don't see many cold start-ups or long periods of high speed driving in extreme heat. But our test results relate to the most common type of severe service — stop-and-go city driving." According to their study, synthetic oil is "worth considering for extreme driving conditions: high ambient temperatures and high engine load, or very cold temperatures."