Vindication for IS250 6SPD drivers
03-04-10, 01:23 AM
#16
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oh, rly? name ONE.
For your entertainment Ill name a bunch...Most Honda manuals and thier automatic counterparts....(Faster acceleration similarMPG's)...On a side note, Manufacturer and epa mpg ratings are performed by people accelerating and shifting cars. 1-2mpg disparity could mean human delay/error.
okay, maybe i'll give you the is250 manual transmission, but even then the auto tranny in the is250 is still pretty damn efficient.
Yes...I never contested the progress/efficiencies of common autos...I only stated that theyre some 'good' manuals out there that provide 'on par' performance to their auto counterparts.
on the other hand, i can name several automatic transmissions that outshine/outperform manual counterparts.
That nice ....so can I.........Sad really....Am beginning to think that car manufacturers are purposefully rendering manuals obsolete by halting progress/technology.
in case you haven't noticed, modern automatic transmissions have become so efficient that they are making manuals a novelty.
This has always been the case here in N.America, although the trend is also picking up in Europe. Simply put, cars and transportation are digressing from their sporting identities and coalescing with a modern-efficient one.
btw, this makes for good reading. maybe you should take your discussion to that thread.
I never intended it to be a manual vs. auto thread...it was hijacked...but im glad u brought it up
.......
It amazes me how whenever a thread dealing with the jutaxposition of a m vs auto beckons the same few posters to bash manuals as if theyre pride depended on it.........
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/car...elow-10-a.html
the days of rowing gears are numbered. get used to it.
For your entertainment Ill name a bunch...Most Honda manuals and thier automatic counterparts....(Faster acceleration similarMPG's)...On a side note, Manufacturer and epa mpg ratings are performed by people accelerating and shifting cars. 1-2mpg disparity could mean human delay/error.
okay, maybe i'll give you the is250 manual transmission, but even then the auto tranny in the is250 is still pretty damn efficient.
Yes...I never contested the progress/efficiencies of common autos...I only stated that theyre some 'good' manuals out there that provide 'on par' performance to their auto counterparts.
on the other hand, i can name several automatic transmissions that outshine/outperform manual counterparts.
That nice ....so can I.........Sad really....Am beginning to think that car manufacturers are purposefully rendering manuals obsolete by halting progress/technology.
in case you haven't noticed, modern automatic transmissions have become so efficient that they are making manuals a novelty.
This has always been the case here in N.America, although the trend is also picking up in Europe. Simply put, cars and transportation are digressing from their sporting identities and coalescing with a modern-efficient one.
btw, this makes for good reading. maybe you should take your discussion to that thread.
I never intended it to be a manual vs. auto thread...it was hijacked...but im glad u brought it up
.......It amazes me how whenever a thread dealing with the jutaxposition of a m vs auto beckons the same few posters to bash manuals as if theyre pride depended on it.........
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/car...elow-10-a.html
the days of rowing gears are numbered. get used to it.
03-04-10, 03:54 AM
#18
In the thread I linked to earlier Lobuxracer mentioned he examined the design/service manuals of the tacoma and IS250 manuals and they appeared identical.
http://www.autoblog.com/2009/07/13/b...ures-reported/
The Camaro SS uses the Tremec 6060 six-speed gearbox – the same transmission fitted to the Dodge Viper, Mustang GT500, Corvette Z06 and other performance cars
This lists the Tremec 6060 use in both the Camaro and the CTS-V
If by "your" you mean "the real" then yeah. The % of cars sold with manuals has steadily declined and will keep going that way as automatics continue to beat them in every single measurable way.
Not sure which one you live in.
03-04-10, 11:27 AM
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Please enlighten us as to the specific differences.
Well,first off theiyre different cars and feel quite different (to experienced manual drivers) if you say other wise uve havent driven either.
In the thread I linked to earlier Lobuxracer mentioned he examined the design/service manuals of the tacoma and IS250 manuals and they appeared identical.
Once again......theyre the same transmission....But in different applications. A lot of different cars share the same transmission but feel different.(ie RX* vs. s2000) My point was (read this carefully) just because the Tacoma uses it does not make it a truck transmission....
BTW who is that....a Toyota tech?
Not sure where you got your info on the camaro using the RA62-
Thats Not what I said....(read carefully again)
http://www.autoblog.com/2009/07/13/b...ures-reported/
Again (read carefully) thats not what is written.......BTW its the v6 models that utilize this transmission.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tremec_...0_transmission
This lists the Tremec 6060 use in both the Camaro and the CTS-V
If by "your" you mean "the real" then yeah. The % of cars sold with manuals has steadily declined and will keep going that way as automatics continue to beat them in every single measurable way.
To reiterate....Heres a concept some of you may not understand.......People that drive manual transmission cars wouldnt have it any other way....We dont care that an automatic facsimile may get 2mpg better oraccelerate a tenth faster its got nothing to do with it.......
Think about it this way....why is it that people still use sail boats instead of slapping on a large 3000hp motor and speeding away?
Not sure which one you live in.
Well,first off theiyre different cars and feel quite different (to experienced manual drivers) if you say other wise uve havent driven either.
In the thread I linked to earlier Lobuxracer mentioned he examined the design/service manuals of the tacoma and IS250 manuals and they appeared identical.
Once again......theyre the same transmission....But in different applications. A lot of different cars share the same transmission but feel different.(ie RX* vs. s2000) My point was (read this carefully) just because the Tacoma uses it does not make it a truck transmission....
BTW who is that....a Toyota tech?
Not sure where you got your info on the camaro using the RA62-
Thats Not what I said....(read carefully again)
http://www.autoblog.com/2009/07/13/b...ures-reported/
Again (read carefully) thats not what is written.......BTW its the v6 models that utilize this transmission.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tremec_...0_transmission
This lists the Tremec 6060 use in both the Camaro and the CTS-V
If by "your" you mean "the real" then yeah. The % of cars sold with manuals has steadily declined and will keep going that way as automatics continue to beat them in every single measurable way.
To reiterate....Heres a concept some of you may not understand.......People that drive manual transmission cars wouldnt have it any other way....We dont care that an automatic facsimile may get 2mpg better oraccelerate a tenth faster its got nothing to do with it.......
Think about it this way....why is it that people still use sail boats instead of slapping on a large 3000hp motor and speeding away?
Not sure which one you live in.
BTW.;...Please stop hijacking this thread.......as one poster stated so eloquently theres another contemporary discussion on the merits of driving an automatic..........
03-04-10, 11:30 AM
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Riight.........
http://www.aisin.com/finance/ir/repo...pdf/glance.pdf
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/is-...x-noise-2.html
http://www.aisin-ai.co.jp/english/products/fr.html
http://my.is/forums/f88/new-manual-t...09/index7.html
or hit up Aisin for further info....if u can read Japanese.
Toyota DOES NOT MAKE inhouse manual transmissions (as most other automakers)....they outsource mainly to Aisin, Borg-werner and until recently Getrag.
http://www.aisin.com/finance/ir/repo...pdf/glance.pdf
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/is-...x-noise-2.html
http://www.aisin-ai.co.jp/english/products/fr.html
http://my.is/forums/f88/new-manual-t...09/index7.html
or hit up Aisin for further info....if u can read Japanese.
Toyota DOES NOT MAKE inhouse manual transmissions (as most other automakers)....they outsource mainly to Aisin, Borg-werner and until recently Getrag.
Last edited by dmocchi; 03-04-10 at 11:50 AM.
03-04-10, 11:34 AM
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There even was/ is a huge movement against the manual trannies in Hondas (civic is, honda v6 ect) which are undoubtably the best in the biz.
This is why manuals are losing favor whith manufactures.....human error.
03-04-10, 04:46 PM
#25
Riight.........
http://www.aisin.com/finance/ir/repo...pdf/glance.pdf
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/is-...x-noise-2.html
http://www.aisin-ai.co.jp/english/products/fr.html
http://my.is/forums/f88/new-manual-t...09/index7.html
or hit up Aisin for further info....if u can read Japanese.
Toyota DOES NOT MAKE inhouse manual transmissions (as most other automakers)....they outsource mainly to Aisin, Borg-werner and until recently Getrag.
http://www.aisin.com/finance/ir/repo...pdf/glance.pdf
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/is-...x-noise-2.html
http://www.aisin-ai.co.jp/english/products/fr.html
http://my.is/forums/f88/new-manual-t...09/index7.html
or hit up Aisin for further info....if u can read Japanese.
Toyota DOES NOT MAKE inhouse manual transmissions (as most other automakers)....they outsource mainly to Aisin, Borg-werner and until recently Getrag.
But I'm not sure how your previous suggestion it is used in the camaro (and CTS) 6 cylinder but not the 8 cylinder camaro in any way supports your point that it'll hold a lot of power.... in fact it kinda suggests the exact opposite...that it can't handle the more powerful motor.
The only human error here is people who keep thinking manuals are useful for much anymore.
They're slower, they get worse mileage, they're more distracting to the driver, and in the case of the 2IS get far more reports of problems than the automatic does.
Even Porsche is coming around and their fastest offerings don't have a clutch pedal anymore.
S'ok though, I'm sure people were annoyed at electric starters back in 1912 or so, complaining how "real drivers" hand cranked their cars.
Last edited by Kurtz; 03-04-10 at 05:26 PM.
03-04-10, 06:28 PM
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Your actual source from Aisins web page doesn't mentiont the camaro at all...
Whats the difference .....have you no ability to infer?....Ive already posted credible sources and if ure still not convinced search it yourself. Your only sources are based on hearsay and conjecture.
But I'm not sure how your previous suggestion it is used in the camaro (and CTS) 6 cylinder but not the 8 cylinder camaro in any way supports your point that it'll hold a lot of power.... in fact it kinda suggests the exact opposite...that it can't handle the more powerful motor.
No that was not my point...If you rewind youll see I was only answering YOUR post.BTW car manufacrtures dont choose transmissions based "on how much power theyll hold" ...its much more complex than that.
The only human error here is people who keep thinking manuals are useful for much anymore.
Noone is arguing with you.......Its your own agenda.......
They're slower, they get worse mileage, they're more distracting to the driver, and in the case of the 2IS get far more reports of problems than the automatic does.
Says you....For every example of a superior specs on an auto transmission there exists one for a manual car...........
Thats because of human error. ....
Heres the point that u seem to be missing while negligently hijacking my thread.......SOME PEOPLE JUST PREFER (EMPHASIS) DRIVING MANUALS...
Ill simplify this for you.....
think of it this way.........sex/ gender....some males prefer being w/males while other w/ females...one relationship more productive than the other, but does not make it wrong in contemporary purview...........hope this helps reconcile your logic
Even Porsche is coming around and their fastest offerings don't have a clutch pedal anymore.
Yup..... and their manual transmission is also made by Aisin...what does that tell you???? They dont care about progression.
S'ok though, I'm sure people were annoyed at electric starters back in 1912 or so, complaining how "real drivers" hand cranked their cars.
Whats the difference .....have you no ability to infer?....Ive already posted credible sources and if ure still not convinced search it yourself. Your only sources are based on hearsay and conjecture.
But I'm not sure how your previous suggestion it is used in the camaro (and CTS) 6 cylinder but not the 8 cylinder camaro in any way supports your point that it'll hold a lot of power.... in fact it kinda suggests the exact opposite...that it can't handle the more powerful motor.
No that was not my point...If you rewind youll see I was only answering YOUR post.BTW car manufacrtures dont choose transmissions based "on how much power theyll hold" ...its much more complex than that.
The only human error here is people who keep thinking manuals are useful for much anymore.
Noone is arguing with you.......Its your own agenda.......
They're slower, they get worse mileage, they're more distracting to the driver, and in the case of the 2IS get far more reports of problems than the automatic does.
Says you....For every example of a superior specs on an auto transmission there exists one for a manual car...........
Thats because of human error. ....
Heres the point that u seem to be missing while negligently hijacking my thread.......SOME PEOPLE JUST PREFER (EMPHASIS) DRIVING MANUALS...
Ill simplify this for you.....
think of it this way.........sex/ gender....some males prefer being w/males while other w/ females...one relationship more productive than the other, but does not make it wrong in contemporary purview...........hope this helps reconcile your logic
Even Porsche is coming around and their fastest offerings don't have a clutch pedal anymore.
Yup..... and their manual transmission is also made by Aisin...what does that tell you???? They dont care about progression.
S'ok though, I'm sure people were annoyed at electric starters back in 1912 or so, complaining how "real drivers" hand cranked their cars.
03-04-10, 06:40 PM
#27
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^^you're a pleasure faire fan?
Seriously - I've said my piece on this. More than once. The Aisin RA-62 is junk. I wouldn't run it in my dog's lawnmower. Aisin makes sketchy gearboxes and always has. The only "Toyota" gearbox worth anything was the V-160 and V-161 in the Supra, but they weren't Toyota, they were Getrag 233s. Everything else Toyota uses built by Aisin does not stand up to much more than a 10% torque increase and it dies.
Glad you're excited about the new Toyota available in Japan. I bet the gearbox is just another Aisin POS.
Seriously - I've said my piece on this. More than once. The Aisin RA-62 is junk. I wouldn't run it in my dog's lawnmower. Aisin makes sketchy gearboxes and always has. The only "Toyota" gearbox worth anything was the V-160 and V-161 in the Supra, but they weren't Toyota, they were Getrag 233s. Everything else Toyota uses built by Aisin does not stand up to much more than a 10% torque increase and it dies.
Glad you're excited about the new Toyota available in Japan. I bet the gearbox is just another Aisin POS.
Last edited by lobuxracer; 03-04-10 at 06:49 PM.
03-04-10, 06:44 PM
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All I was responding to were the fabricated conjecture BS by one poster claiming that the IS250 had an inherently 1)subpar, truck engineered transmission, 2) that it wasnt made by Aisin 3) that the manual version is inferior to the auto one, thats all.....I think Iv3 made my point clear by now.
Funny thing is that my household we all drive manual cars w/; mine being a 335 bmw (the IS is moms)........ and cant really claim that any of the german cars we own shift all that better than the IS. By this criteria then all manuals but the Hondas are basically subpar................food for thought
03-04-10, 06:48 PM
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Isnt that pretty obvious by now???? BTW Im not defending manuals for the sake of claiming that theyre better.........cause theyre not.......
All I was responding to were the fabricated conjecture BS by one poster claiming that the IS250 had an inherently 1)subpar, truck engineered transmission, 2) that it wasnt made by Aisin 3) that the manual version is inferior to the auto one, thats all.....I think Iv3 made my point clear by now.
Funny thing is that my household we all drive manual cars w/; mine being a 335 bmw (the IS is moms)........ and cant really claim that any of the german cars we own shift all that better than the IS. By this criteria then all manuals but the Hondas are basically subpar................food for thought
All I was responding to were the fabricated conjecture BS by one poster claiming that the IS250 had an inherently 1)subpar, truck engineered transmission, 2) that it wasnt made by Aisin 3) that the manual version is inferior to the auto one, thats all.....I think Iv3 made my point clear by now.
Funny thing is that my household we all drive manual cars w/; mine being a 335 bmw (the IS is moms)........ and cant really claim that any of the german cars we own shift all that better than the IS. By this criteria then all manuals but the Hondas are basically subpar................food for thought
03-04-10, 06:53 PM
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Yes...Im a fan of rowing my own stick.........
Yes...and I did enjoy that read BTW...although it was (a) perspective (not undermining u )
Yes........same point I was trying to make to a poster suffering from Aspergers disorder I believe.....Toyota outsources.....but I dont agree w/ u on Getrag...IMO it wasnt all that great especially when comparing it to other manual transmissions of the time (rx7 / nsx)....Getrags have a rubbery feel to them that im not partial of.......(I own 3 currently)
(not that im saying that it is worse than the is250 btw)
Well here is where Id dissent......Aisin also happens to make the BEST MANUAL TRANSMISSION EVER! (AZ6) Heres 
hoping they might improve on the ay6
Seriously - I've said my piece on this. More than once. The Aisin RA-62 is junk. I wouldn't run it in my dog's lawnmower. Aisin makes sketchy gearboxes and always has. The only "Toyota" gearbox worth anything was the V-160 and V-161 in the Supra, but they weren't Toyota, they were Getrag 233s. Everything else Toyota uses built by Aisin does not stand up to much more than a 10% torque increase and it dies.
Yes........same point I was trying to make to a poster suffering from Aspergers disorder I believe.....Toyota outsources.....but I dont agree w/ u on Getrag...IMO it wasnt all that great especially when comparing it to other manual transmissions of the time (rx7 / nsx)....Getrags have a rubbery feel to them that im not partial of.......(I own 3 currently)
(not that im saying that it is worse than the is250 btw)
hoping they might improve on the ay6
Last edited by lobuxracer; 03-04-10 at 07:08 PM.