$400 piece of plastic from tom's
04-14-10, 11:00 AM
#31
I understand that some "replica" companies are not based here, but even if you sell products here and steal a design you can still be sued and your products can be essentially banned from sale in the United States. This has happened with tons of products (it's just not first page news).
As for the cost, I totally took the design, engineering, prototypes, manufacturing into consideration before making my opinion. I have nothing against Tom's, but I don't see how they justify this particular part for $400. I could probably point you at several United States companies (that manufacture in the U.S.) that could produce this product for at least 1/4 of the cost (while coming up with their own design).
***
As for the Nexus IS351...well that's a totally different ballgame. First of all, company's always come up with similar exterior designs and you don't see those companies getting sued (see the Honda Element or Scion xD body styles and look at all the manufacturers that put out a similar product).
As for some of the interior components, well there hasn't been a huge revolution in a long time (generally speaking of course), which is why you see engine design having more or less evolved over time (i.e. we aren't using plutonium system yet).
Frankly, you could make a strong argument that Lexus has taken a lot of it's engineering ideas from other car manufacturers, which is why every major corporation usually has some form of intelligence division that evaluates other products and tries to evolve (or "design") their product to try and 1-up the competition.
** I honestly have nothing against original designs and people supporting the company. I just think that simply because a company employ's designers and engineers *and is popular* does not make their design unique and another manufacturer's a replica.
A lot of these "original" designs can be traced back years. I'll choose the "original" that is high quality, doesn't try to markup products 400%, and has a competitive business strategy. That's just how I roll though...everyone is surely entitled to their own opinion. :-)
As for the cost, I totally took the design, engineering, prototypes, manufacturing into consideration before making my opinion. I have nothing against Tom's, but I don't see how they justify this particular part for $400. I could probably point you at several United States companies (that manufacture in the U.S.) that could produce this product for at least 1/4 of the cost (while coming up with their own design).
***
As for the Nexus IS351...well that's a totally different ballgame. First of all, company's always come up with similar exterior designs and you don't see those companies getting sued (see the Honda Element or Scion xD body styles and look at all the manufacturers that put out a similar product).
As for some of the interior components, well there hasn't been a huge revolution in a long time (generally speaking of course), which is why you see engine design having more or less evolved over time (i.e. we aren't using plutonium system yet).
Frankly, you could make a strong argument that Lexus has taken a lot of it's engineering ideas from other car manufacturers, which is why every major corporation usually has some form of intelligence division that evaluates other products and tries to evolve (or "design") their product to try and 1-up the competition.
** I honestly have nothing against original designs and people supporting the company. I just think that simply because a company employ's designers and engineers *and is popular* does not make their design unique and another manufacturer's a replica.
A lot of these "original" designs can be traced back years. I'll choose the "original" that is high quality, doesn't try to markup products 400%, and has a competitive business strategy. That's just how I roll though...everyone is surely entitled to their own opinion. :-)
04-14-10, 12:05 PM
#32
I understand that some "replica" companies are not based here, but even if you sell products here and steal a design you can still be sued and your products can be essentially banned from sale in the United States. This has happened with tons of products (it's just not first page news).
As for the cost, I totally took the design, engineering, prototypes, manufacturing into consideration before making my opinion. I have nothing against Tom's, but I don't see how they justify this particular part for $400. I could probably point you at several United States companies (that manufacture in the U.S.) that could produce this product for at least 1/4 of the cost (while coming up with their own design).
***
As for the Nexus IS351...well that's a totally different ballgame. First of all, company's always come up with similar exterior designs and you don't see those companies getting sued (see the Honda Element or Scion xD body styles and look at all the manufacturers that put out a similar product).
As for some of the interior components, well there hasn't been a huge revolution in a long time (generally speaking of course), which is why you see engine design having more or less evolved over time (i.e. we aren't using plutonium system yet).
Frankly, you could make a strong argument that Lexus has taken a lot of it's engineering ideas from other car manufacturers, which is why every major corporation usually has some form of intelligence division that evaluates other products and tries to evolve (or "design") their product to try and 1-up the competition.
** I honestly have nothing against original designs and people supporting the company. I just think that simply because a company employ's designers and engineers *and is popular* does not make their design unique and another manufacturer's a replica.
A lot of these "original" designs can be traced back years. I'll choose the "original" that is high quality, doesn't try to markup products 400%, and has a competitive business strategy. That's just how I roll though...everyone is surely entitled to their own opinion. :-)
As for the cost, I totally took the design, engineering, prototypes, manufacturing into consideration before making my opinion. I have nothing against Tom's, but I don't see how they justify this particular part for $400. I could probably point you at several United States companies (that manufacture in the U.S.) that could produce this product for at least 1/4 of the cost (while coming up with their own design).
***
As for the Nexus IS351...well that's a totally different ballgame. First of all, company's always come up with similar exterior designs and you don't see those companies getting sued (see the Honda Element or Scion xD body styles and look at all the manufacturers that put out a similar product).
As for some of the interior components, well there hasn't been a huge revolution in a long time (generally speaking of course), which is why you see engine design having more or less evolved over time (i.e. we aren't using plutonium system yet).
Frankly, you could make a strong argument that Lexus has taken a lot of it's engineering ideas from other car manufacturers, which is why every major corporation usually has some form of intelligence division that evaluates other products and tries to evolve (or "design") their product to try and 1-up the competition.
** I honestly have nothing against original designs and people supporting the company. I just think that simply because a company employ's designers and engineers *and is popular* does not make their design unique and another manufacturer's a replica.
A lot of these "original" designs can be traced back years. I'll choose the "original" that is high quality, doesn't try to markup products 400%, and has a competitive business strategy. That's just how I roll though...everyone is surely entitled to their own opinion. :-)
Of course, anyone can sue for anything. In the end though, too often it's the case that taking legal action against a foreign company is a lot more complicated and costly than it's worth. You don't think these large companies are aware of the legal system? It's just not worth it in the end - sometimes even finding these replica companies requires assistance from the CIA...
Getting something "banned for sale" is almost impossible in this industry - hence the proliferation of replica companies. I'm all for the company that can produce their own design at a lower cost. I think that's great. What I have problem with are the I-Style INGs replica kits. Why don't these companies produce their own design? Because it takes MONEY, that's why. There's also after-sale support that comes with an authentic product from an authorized retailer. You know what happens if your authentic INGs kit doesn't fit? They replace it. Try telling a replica company that your INGs-style bumper you bought on eBay doesn't fit properly...
I understand that everyone has different budgets - that's reality. Some of us aren't as fortunate as others, and can't afford to spring for the real thing. However supporting a company that has copied another's design, commericially selling it as their own is shameful, whether it's legal or not. Again, I'm not necsessarily commenting on this piece specifically, but replica products in general. No one is going to convince me that it's okay to steal design just because they can't afford to buy the original.
By the way, for those suffering from sticker shock, $400 is not a lot for a diffuser. Take a look at Google and you won't see any "branded" diffusers for any less. The only ones under that price are Extreme Dimensions, Bayson R, and eBay etc... and some are even more than $400! There's also a rear diffuser that's popular with IS-F owners that sells for $350 - so $400 is not as astromically priced as you may think.
Javier
04-14-10, 12:31 PM
#33
Well stated. I appreciate your point of view, and agree with many of your points.
I understand that everyone has different budgets - that's reality. Some of us aren't as fortunate as others, and can't afford to spring for the real thing.
By the way, for those suffering from sticker shock, $400 is not a lot for a diffuser.
Javier
I understand that everyone has different budgets - that's reality. Some of us aren't as fortunate as others, and can't afford to spring for the real thing.
By the way, for those suffering from sticker shock, $400 is not a lot for a diffuser.
Javier
It's not a financial matter for me, but I understand it may be for some people; I honestly have no problem dropping $400 on a diffuser if the design, engineering, and product quality justify that as a price point. However, if a "non-branded" diffuser with a couple of engineers designs a similiar product (also based on a basic design principle from 20+ years ago) are able to produce a similiar or better quality for $150 (with good customer service) then that's where my money would go.
I have nothing against Tom's at all; I just don't think a brand name (regardless of whether it's Tom's or another popular manufacturer) necessarily justifies the purchase price. To be frank, the amount of engineering time going into diffuser (i.e. an aerodynamic piece of plastic to help improve airflow, which is adapted to Lexus IS350) is very minimal. I know several designers/engineers who could pop out a design and produce a prototype for our IS350's in a day or two (all hail the technology age and various Lexus car templates).
So in summary, I don't think the cost to deliver this product (from design to production) justifies a $400 price tag. However, I think everyone needs to make their own decision and let their money do the talking.
