flektone

iTrader: (1)

I appreciate your honesty. But is changing spark plugs at 60k really a waste of money? I mean the manual says to do it. Spark plugs at every 60k really isnt much money. Id rather have them changed earlier knowing im doing the right thing taking care of my car.

quick123

iTrader: (2)

Here is the deal...all service shops like to make money. If you have no issue replacing the plugs every 60k, then no worries, its your car and money. If I can help someone save some $$$, then I will offer my advice. I know that a ton of people just don't know enough about cars, and when a shop tells them to perform certain services (weither it's early or not), it can add up quick if you have no idea.

Compare the plugs to brakes...if a shop recommends replacing the brakes at 4mm, you can do them if you like, but it could be a bit early, right? There is nothing wrong with waiting until they are at 2mm, it could save some $$$ at that time.

Kurtz

iTrader: (1)

People aren't replacing plugs at 60k because "the shop said so"

It's because the people who built the car said so.

This isn't an old 2JZ motor or anything, this is a fairly complex direct injection motor that runs both high compression and a very lean burn.

So it's not that surprising you might need to change plugs a bit sooner than you might think.

On the other hand, the WS fluid in the 2IS doesn't get changed at 100k. It gets changed never as the transmission is sealed and it's lifetime fluid.

quick123

iTrader: (2)

Well Kurtz, I don't know if you read the previous statements, but I currently work in Toyota service, so I actually do know what I am talking about. I deal with these vehicles on a daily basis, and we are trained by Toyota on how to service them. The transmission is not welded shut, sealed means it has no dip stick to put fluid in (keeps people from messing with it, just like the engine bay covers). You need a SST (special service tool) to pump fluid in and out of a WS transmission, but I guess you already knew that....

Kurtz

iTrader: (1)

Really? What tool? Where and how specifically do you use it on the transmissions in the ISx50?

I ask because another member previously posted the pages directly from TIS showing it's physically impossible to change a significant amount of the fluid in the ISx50 automatic transmission.... so if you can inform us how a full fluid change is performed a lot of members would really like to know the details. I'm aware of an SST needed to top off the fluid if some was lost due to a leak or repair (09843-18040), but not one for changing the fluid.... and all that SST does is short a few pins on the DLC3 connector.

I understand you work at a toyota dealership. You'll hopefully understand if I take the word of the folks who built the engine (which say change spark plugs at 60k) over a guy who changes the oil in corollas.

Especially when you make a point to say you're trained on Toyotas, and Toyota doesn't use these engines in any of their US vehicles. They use de-tuned, non-direct-injection versions. Which just might impact spark plug life a touch.

lobuxracer

iTrader: (2)

???

The plugs in a Scion tC need to be changed at 100k according to Toyota. The wife's tC started running rough at idle at 105k. I changed the plugs. Idle got smooth again. LEXUS says to change the plugs at 60k. Not some shop, not some backyard wrench, not some ASE Master Tech, but the guys who designed and built the car. Why would they recommend 100k for the Scion (and Camry with the 2AZ) and only 60k for the 2GR-FSE, 4GR-FE, and 2UR-GSE (which all have direct injection)?

You can easily change the WS fluid in a Scion tC (and Camry for that matter) because they run cooling lines to the radiator. You can't do this on any 2IS (250, 350, F) because there are no lines with ATF leaving the transmission. There's a heat exchanger installed in the side of the gearbox, and Lexus runs coolant to the heat exchanger, not ATF.

Maybe you ought to login to TIS and learn a bit about what is very different in Lexus vehicles. Yes, Toyota makes Scion, Toyota, and Lexus, but the engineering is different. I currently own one of all three and have owned and exclusively serviced my 15 different TMS vehicles since 1988.

Jetfire

iTrader: (3)

hmmm..we have a built-in transmission cooler for our cars? where would i be able to see it if i crawled under my car?

quick123

iTrader: (2)

Wow...I knew this was going to happen. I am not going to resond to the smart comments on here, I am not in this business for that....and BTW, I am a Service Manager, not a 2 bit express tech...

I would like to help, I just checked on TIS how to change the WS fluid...but I am feeling a lot of hostility on this forum....

Kurtz

iTrader: (1)

So you claim to know an answer everyone else insists does not exist, and rather than respond to the specific technical objections raised (like the fact none of the motors you're an "expert" on use direct injection, so perhaps your "experience" with them isn't relevant to the Lexus motors that do use it), you're just going to "not respond"

How helpful.


FWIW you're at least the third "toyota tech" over the years who has insisted the fluid on the 2IS could be changed and then when asked how it's actually done on the 2IS (not a toyota) has stopped responding.

I wonder why.

06isDriver

I'm gonna have to side with quick123 on the HOSTILITY bit. I've gotten warnings for not having the "club lexus friendly attitude", and I must admit that these tennis matches of "I know more than you do" dont foster a friendly club lexus environment.

There is a way to express you opinions without putting another person down. And by putting a person down, (so theres no confusion) I mean talking to them and treating them as if they are not worthy to discuss the issue at hand.

quick123

iTrader: (2)

Ok Captain Kurtz...if you really want some help, you sure do have a nice way of asking for it...and just know that I am going to let everyone know how to change the WS fluid because I am here to help, not because of your smart *** comments...but it should show you that maybe there are people out there that might know a bit more than you...

Last Modified: 2-16-2010 6.4 N From: 200508
Model Year: 2006 Model: IS350 Doc ID: RM0000013BU00CX
Title: A760E AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION: AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION FLUID: ADJUSTMENT (2006 IS350)

ADJUSTMENT
1. BEFORE FILLING TRANSMISSION

This transmission requires Toyota Genuine ATF WS.
It is necessary to refill the transmission with the correct amount of fluid.
The vehicle must remain level while adjusting the transmission fluid level.
2. FILL TRANSMISSION PAN WITH FLUID



(a) Remove the 2 bolts and transmission case cover.



(b) Remove the refill plug and overflow plug.



(c) Fill the transmission through the refill hole until fluid begins to trickle out of the overflow tube.


(d) Reinstall the overflow plug.

3. FILL TRANSMISSION

(a) Fill the transmission with the correct amount of fluid as listed in the table below.

(b) Reinstall the refill plug to avoid fluid splash.



These are instructions from TIS, I did not include the pictures because I am sure I will get in trouble for cutting and pasting information directly from TIS. I hope this helps everyone, including you Captain Kurtz....

Kurtz

iTrader: (1)

Uh...yeah...so I was right you have no idea how to change the fluid.

Those are directions to FILL the transmission if the fluid is low.

They were posted here over 3 years ago, with full diagrams (though your copy is newer of course, it's largely the same directions posted in 2007)

Those are not instructions to change the fluid, since there's no way to get the old stuff out.

Those directions are to refill it with smaller amounts of fluid if there was a leak or you change a part.


FYI, the more complete version from TIS is here:

https://www.clublexus.com/forums/2446051-post44.html

The part about this procedure being for replacing lost fluid is at the top of that.



So again, if you're such an expert, how do you get all of the old fluid out of the transmission? (hint: you can't. That's why it's a unit with lifetime fluid... just like Lexus says in the owners manual)

quick123

iTrader: (2)

You really are funny, did it ever occur to you to remove the overflow plug? Or you can remove the oil pan sub-assembly....or you can go to a dealership and they can do it since you don't have the knowledge....if you have never been a mechanic, I understand your issue, but bolts and plugs are make to go on and come off, so have a try sometime....

Again, you have a very nice way of asking for more help...

Kurtz

iTrader: (1)

Even removing the pan entirely only gets a small fraction of the fluid out. A mere 1.3-1.5 liters in fact.

That is made clear on the "amount to replace" chart included on the full TIS document you ought to have just read but clearly do not understand.



So, as I said, you can't change the fluid, and you have absolutely nothing to provide to back up your earlier claim you could. (where's that SST you mentioned earlier BTW? It'd just the one in the TIS notice I linked to from 2007 that jumpers the electrical connectors, isn't it?)


You only made it because you know your techs, who do the actual work, change fluid on some toyota models that are built quite differently... and you assumed "Hey, if they can do it on a corolla, I'm sure a Lexus is the same thing"

It's not. (Lobuxracer already explained how, you don't appear to be understanding what he wrote though)



Likewise, we both explained to you why changing the plugs at 60k on the Lexus makes sense rather than your advice, based on different, non-direct-injection, toyota engines which does not apply to the Lexus vehicles.

quick123

iTrader: (2)

I am done with this....believe what you want...you can only read your forums, while others actually work in the industry...if someone wants to flush their WS transmission, our machines have adapters for non-cooler WS transmissions...and my bad for suggesting you can hold off on spark plugs for a bit to lower a 60k service visit....