balanced

iTrader: (3)

YOU SAID IT...KURTZ SAID IT....LEXUS SAID IT....If you hit the ECT PWR button - it controls AI Shift, then per Lexus, automatic gear changes become quicker and crisper.... surely you cannot deny the statement from Lexus (although I'm not sure they have as many posts here on Club Lexus as I do)

I hope we can all play nice now....

mitsuguy

iTrader: (2)

Are we completely sure the actual commanded shift point is higher?

Bear with me for a minute, as there may be a reason why the PWR mode is "faster" in a straight line and you are seeing higher RPM...

It is generally accepted that one thing the button does is to firm up shifts. Because of this, the shifts happen faster. Back to normal mode, the shift takes longer.... What if the commanded shift point is the same no matter which mode you are in, but, the softer shift takes longer, which allows engine RPM to climb higher than it does in PWR mode...

Also, the more power the car makes, the longer the shift takes as well... before my car was turbo'd, it shifted great (IS300), right before the factory rev limiter, every single time. Now that it is making significantly more power, it would bounce off the rev limiter and wouldn't shift until you let off...

Now, take your longer shift times, higher RPM, and I can see how those would get you slightly better 1/4 mile times... probably in the hundredths of a second, so I'm not sure if it is even an issue one way or the other...

balanced

iTrader: (3)

uh, that actually kinda makes sense....AND makes everyone right!

Lil4cyl

I can assure you that if you were at the dragstrip, you would get a faster time with ECT on normal instead of Power

Kurtz

iTrader: (1)

What it would be, after a week of driving in PWR mode, is exactly the same as it was before.

Because you'd be pressing the gas pedal less.

That's what I explained in some detail in my post in fact.... same reason electronic throttle controllers are worthless if you use em more than a couple days at a time, your brain tunes them back out.

If the _only_ reason shifts in ECT-POWER are firmer is greater throttle input then that would go away after a while. Because if you wanted to be driving with greater throttle input you'd have just hit the gas harder to begin with.

Hence why I was asking for anything from Lexus that suggests ECT-POWER increases line pressure inherently (not merely as a result of >throttle input, which you could provide in any ECT mode)


And yes, Gernbys results are hardly a sample size of one, since they're in line with every other person that's ever tested NORMAL vs POWER at a dragstrip... though all of them outweigh your own current sample size of 0 data of course

BTW, where is your AI SHIFT quote from? When I googled the first line I got this link:
http://www.lexus.com.bh/technology_e...asp?model=6_SC

Which does not list the IS as a model covered there. So assuming the version of AI SHIFT on the IS works the same is potentially...not a correct assumption... (not to mention it's from Baharain... which I wouldn't count as an authorative source compared to TIS or even lexus.com or lexus.jp) and here's the IS link from them...it doesn't mention the feature-
http://www.lexus.com.bh/technology_e...asp?Model=1_IS
)

The description of AI-SHIFT I provided on the other hand was right out of TIS... and doesn't mention quicker shifts at all.


I mean, surely if ECT-PWR mode inherently increases transmission line pressure (at the same throttle opening), that'd be documented someplace, right?

So document it.

That's all I've been asking for since my first reply to you.



All that said, Mitsuguys explanation might well be right... it's a shame HKS350 is taking his system apart, I think he'd have been equipped to datalog the info needed to prove it (ie see both when it's commanding a shift and when the shift is happening in each mode- and since it'd be at WOT there'd be no question of throttle position making a difference)

clubfoot

Actually Kurtz, balanced's quote is also in the '06 IS350 Automatic shift fail chart from the repair manual and also on the European Lexus web site for the IS250.

Unfortunately, I cannot upload .html files to the forum but I attached the .txt converted file from the Repair Manual for you to see. Look at about line 96 for an explanation of AI- SHIFT control.

I think you guys are totally missing the point of the PWR mode because it is mislabeled It should have been called SPORT!

It's NOT for 0-60 or quarter mile times!, It's for spirited driving like canyon roads, autocross or tracking. Just take the time to see how the transmission behalves and you would know that,....geese.

And yes you can pay $10.00 on the TIS web site and download the entire manual yourself to check to see if the transmission pressure is altered If only they made the manual in .pdf

You can also purchase an xhorse or mongoose cable and TIS software like I did, and you'd be able to see what "all" the car's sensors are reading in real time for yourself. BTW the TIS only runs in Xp!

soulsoarer

iTrader: (2)

Here is what I notice with PWR mode and none PWR mode. With PWR mode enable and my foot off the gas while doing 40 +/- mph I can feel the car down shift. With PWR mode not enable I can not feel the car down shift from 40 +/- mph while my foot is off the gas. Now it doesn't have to be 40 +/- mph, but fast enough for the tranmission to go through most or all the gears to feel the effect. Also with PWR mode enable more times than in none PWR mode the car holds the higher rpm longer. If you need to do a quick speed adjustment you would be in the power band range, or close, for quick accelaration. With that being said I hardly have PWR enable and when I do it's usually because I have passengers, even then not that often.

Kurtz

iTrader: (1)

Uh... yeah... your text file doesn't contain what Balanced posted at all dude...

Here's what YOUR document says:

Which is, word for word, the same as the AI SHIFT link I've posted about 4 times now. (well, my link had more detailed, specific, info about what the functions do beyond that, but the intro test is the same as your document).

And it doesn't mention quicker shifts. At all.

Hence why I asked where HIS text is from because google found it no where but that Baharain website about cars other than the IS. If it appears relevant to the ISx50 I'm just asking where.



Yes, that's what I've said from the start. It's useful in on/off throttle driving.

Menthol

Alright guys, I tested this today and off a stop drag race style the ECT power on is actually slower, but its hard to tell a difference. Now, what I cant really figure out is if your on a freeway let's say 55mph and you want to floor it to get it to 90, will ECT on power be better or normal?

My0gr81

you guys are arguing about quicker shift times, when all the ECT power setting does is modify times between shift (actually shift at certain rpm values). That means, the transmission shift sooner or later depending on how fast you punch down on the accelerator (throttle control).

Shift times are set within the mechanical function of the transimission, adjusting that would be detrimental to the health of the transmission. Which is what Kurt has been saying all along.

Kurtz

iTrader: (1)

ECT-Power would probably downshift further here, since in 4th through 6th gear that's the first of the 3 features it has (downshifting more to improve acceleration with a sudden accelerator press- obviously useless from a stop in a drag race, but useful if otherwise cruising along in 6th and you floor it)

Hence why I keep saying POWER mode is useful in on/off throttle situations, since apart from shift pattern (ie what RPM it shifts, which is inferior to normal mode) it's only doing things for you in higher gears to begin with...2 of it's 3 other benefits only operate in 4th-6th gear after all... (and the 3rd operates in 2-5th, which is NOT shifting when you suddenly release the accelerator on the assumption you'll be resuming again soon)

balanced

iTrader: (3)

I think what he was suggesting was pertanient is above what you are quoting:

During a solenoid valve SLT malfunction, the current to the solenoid
valve is stopped. This stops line pressure optimal control, the shift
shock increases. However, shifting is effected through normal clutch
pressure control.

In discussion of AI Shifting if there is a solenoid malfunction line pressure (per my quote) is changed. So, it must have been (at least partially) controled by that before, since a malfuction would cause it to change.

Regardless -- unless I find something in a Lexus publication stating exactly: "When Kurtz pushes the ECT PWR button on a US Lexus IS it directly effects the time it takes between transmssion shifts." You will never consider that it may be effected at all....

balanced

iTrader: (3)

Can you show me in my manual where my brain tunes it back (by pressing the gas less)?

dci4life

iTrader: (3)

I have honestly never pushed that button. I have owned my 2IS for 6 months. Just afraid of having transmission issues.

Kurtz

iTrader: (1)

Except that's not what it says.

It says if there's a solenoid malfunction at all... (insert the part you actually quoted)

It makes no mention, whatsoever, of only applying to AI-SHIFT or a specific ECT mode for that failure function.

All of the failure descriptions in fact are descriptions of what happens if a given item fails in any mode

Hence that quote means exactly the opposite of what you claim, since it's controlling pressure in all modes.



How about just one (from a Lexus/Toyota source actually talking about this model of car- anything from TIS would be extra great vs. a marketing brochure or something though) that states "When ECT-PWR is engaged on an ISx50 it changes the time it takes between shifts" Or even "in ECT-PWR mode the transmission line pressure is increased for quicker/firmer shifts versus other modes"

Which is what your original claim was after all.

Nearest I've seen you come so far was a quote from marketing copy from a middle-eastern website about a totally different model of car.
(by the same token marketing copy calls those paddles on the car "shifters" but they clearly aren't- and TIS is pretty clear about what they actually do and how)




If you have a copy of the manual for your brain handy I'd be happy to

Otherwise you'll just have to accept the weeks of testing I did on this when I was testing electronic throttle controllers.

You naturally are comfortable with a given amount of throttle response/acceleration from the car. If you're "comfortable" using X throttle on route A, and Y throttle on route B, and so on, that's what you've decided you prefer. If you preferred more/higher response you'd be pressing the pedal harder after all.

So what happens when the sensitivity of the gas pedal is turned up via the throttle controller is the car suddenly "feels" really quick because suddenly when you "give" it 10% gas the ECU is thinking you gave it 20%.

But you aren't really comfortable with 20% in the long run (otherwise you'd have already been driving that way)... so after a while your brain tunes it back out. It begins only pressing the pedal 5%, so that with the added value from the controller your ECU is back to only seeing 10%, and the car goes back to how it was before you turned the controller on.

That's why the controller is a fun toy to use a couple days at a time, but if you leave it on all the time you'll largely lose any benefit from it within a week or so because you'll subconsciously re-calibrate your own use of the gas pedal back to where you preferred it to begin with.

(I explain this in more detail, including the specific results I found with it, in my throttle controller review if you want to go find it and read it... but you'll see a similar "natural re-calibration" of gas pedal application if you go from you car to a significantly more or less powerful rental car for more than a few days, and then back again after.)