WHITE93GT

1. What does Emenem have to do with this?
2. Don't be so hard on yourself.
3. I doubt anyone would take advice from an incoherent, self righteous, know it all.

lifeisgood

Actually, under BMW's comprehensive maintenance plan, in addition to oil changes, wipers, "brake pads and rotors are covered at no cost during the first 4 years or 50 thousand miles". The newer BMW's have sensors that indicate how many miles remain on the pads. (They won't replace them earlier then needed, but definitely before they are worn thin to the point of metal to metal contact.) After that, you are correct you have to pay what the dealer charges for maintenance. You do have the option to purchase an extended maintenance contract that goes to 100k miles.

lifeisgood

I bought the Lexus because of its reputation for reliability and I liked the styling. I remember when Hyundai first started selling cars in the US--Hyundai Accents (I think), had around 80 hp and went for $5-6k--I guess you got your money's worth.

Hyundai has come a long way, especially over the past five years. If you look at their reliability scores, they are now in the same class as the Japanese. They did a nice job with the Genesis, the new Sonata, and even the Equus, which starts at $58.9k. Quite impressive from from their humble start. This time, I wanted an SUV and just happened to like the styling of the Infiniti FX more than any of Hyundai's current SUV offerings.

lifeisgood

You seem like an angry young man. Sorry I frustrated you. Some people (you) seem to want to "blame the victim" for what they should or should not have done or known. You are right--you can probably save money by having repairs done by a local mechanic that you trust, and that's sound advice. But it doesn't excuse bad behavior by the other party--which is the real issue here.

The meta-message in my posts is twofold: first, to inform others who may not have driven as many miles or who are relatively new owners that otherwise may be surprised by the cost of routine maintenance on their Lexus if it is done by a dealer. Part of the benefit of the Club Lexus forums is to share information so other members can be better informed--beforehand--some people like you seem to think that it is their obligation to criticize or flame others for simply sharing their experience. And often the criticism is based on opinion that is not well supported by facts. The second point of my posts is to send a message to Lexus that if they want to improve customer loyalty, then they need to do more to make sure that their dealers are fair, honest, and consistent in how they treat their customers. If I don't feel that I can trust an individual or company, then eventually I will go elsewhere. Again, it's not about me and what I should do, it's about whether the company is doing the right thing. By your standards, most of the tens of thousands of Lexus owners who have their cars regularly serviced at dealers are morons. Is that your position?

Dvo

iTrader: (5)

oh boy

chikoo

OP, i understand your position. Probably the only change needed is for Lexus to follow Bmw and offer free maintenance. IMO Bmw did offer free maintenance to beat the more reliable and less expensive maintenance of the Japanese rivals.

Kurtz

iTrader: (1)

Again, the BMW service isn't "free"

It's prepaid by charging more for the car.

Price out a well optioned IS350. Now price out a well optioned 335i. The BMW is a lot more expensive. Far more expensive than you would spend out of pocket on normal maintenance on the IS350 in 5 years/60k miles.


Personally I'd rather pay less for the car and have the option of only doing the service the car actually needs, when and where I wish.

As I said, the car requires very little actual maintenance if you take 10 minutes to read the manual.

Even "by the book" all you're looking at is:

Oil changes every 5k (and realistically it should be 10k, and even longer with synthetic)

Brake fluid changes every 30k

Air/cabin filter changes every 30k (done by yourself in 5 minutes)

Spark plug change at 60k.

Coolant change at 100k.

That's IT for scheduled maintenance.


Brakes/wipers would be as needed, but unless you're really hard on brakes you should easily get 30-60k out of a set of pads and twice that on a set of rotors... (and the rears should rarely need replacing at all unless you're abusing the VSC/VDIM system). Even then the parts are pretty cheap if you know better than to pay dealer MSRP.

Kurtz

iTrader: (1)

Follow up to put some numbers on it-

2010 BMW 335i sedan
Sport pkg, premium pkg, heated seats, ipod adapter, automatic transmission, comfort access, paddle shifters, parking sensors That seems to get it as close as possible to what the IS comes with.

Invoice: $45,945
MSRP: $49,900


2010 Lexus IS350
Sport package and parking sensors only (everything else is standard)

Invoice: $37,934
MSRP: 42,110

So around $8000 more for the BMW. And the BMW is still missing some features the Lexus has (rain-sensing wipers, vented seats, etc)

That's your cost of the "free" maintenance.

I'm sure as hell gonna have spent a ton less than $8000 in maintenance on my IS350 when I'm done with it.

jbjones85

iTrader: (20)

I will agree with ^^^ I do all my own service and its fairly inexpensive. I buy the OEM parts from Sewell at great prices and spend a few hours on the weekend doing it. my 60K service cost me about $150 in parts and a Saturday afternoon.

To the OP --- I completely understand your position. If that would have of happened to me I would never buy another Lexus, or at least use another dealer.

my95tsi

iTrader: (2)

No not at all. If the service is under warranty it's not stupid at all. However some who have the money don't care about the amount that is charged by the dealer, but most do. Compare the service costs to BMW, Mercedes and Audi and Lexus is on par with all three of them. Sure BMW has a service plan but we all know BMW's are some of the most unreliable cars on the road. No one in their right mind would own one without that plan. Don't get me wrong I love BMW's and would one day like to get a M3 but it won't be my only car, it couldn't be for sanity's sake. Lexus's are built better than all three of them and Lexus's reliability is unmatched by any of it's competitors. Lexus's are for people who want long time use out of their vehicle, BMW's are for people that buy new cars and trade it in for a new one every 3 years. If that's your plan then yes BMW suits you best. I'm not here to offend you but common sense would tell anyone not to go to that dealer, I can bet to say most Lexus owners do not service their vehicle solely at the dealer. No matter what car manufacturer you choose everyone knows dealers rape you with their costs. For instance my Lexus dealership charges $115 for an oil change. Why would anyone charge $115 for an oil change? That because it's the dealer. I go to a local Toyota dealership, they use the same oil and the exact same filter and they charge me $25. Lexus is marked up because of the market segment it is catering to. Obviously no Toyota owner would pay $115 for an oil change but guess what? Lexus's are Toyota's through and through. Many Lexus owners are nieve or uninformed and don't know there are better options out there. All i'm trying to say is that your original post is preaching to the choir. We all know the dealers rape people, it's not a suprise and it not limited to just Lexus. I just figured you would already know better knowing that you own 5 vehicles currently. Do you get them all serviced at the dealer? If you do I can tell you an easy you can save $3000-5000 a year or does that not interest you? Also alittle knowledge by reading your owners manual would tell you they repalced things that is not in the service interval.

chikoo

Oh well...we can argue over that all day long and we both will be right.
Even the Bumper to bumper Warranty is not free. If you see the cost breakup on the Lexus side, you will see probably $3500 assigned to Cost of Warranty.
Just because we, the customer, do not see it, we think it is free

I don't think you will be able to negotiate that from the price you pay for the car.


Agreed. But the OP's argument is that who has the time to read the manual. The dealership should do that for you, the customer.

rebs

In my opinion, some people are taking this thread a little too personal.

The OP is certainly entitled to his opinion. I do agree with him on the A/C drain vent (which is a whole different thread). Based on his post, I do have some concerns about his dealer. It's disappointing that dealerships aren't a little more consistent, but I think that (unfortunately) happens across all brands, since dealerships are trying to make a profit and tend to "up-sell".

I do agree with Kurtz in his assessment of free BMW maintenance. His cost estimates showing "free" maintenance running about 8k appears to be very close. I ran a few estimates to try and configure similar vehicles and it always ran in the 6-8k range (which is actually the same issue I came across when considering a new car).

To each their own. I wish the OP the best of luck with his new vehicle. I'll consider a BMW again when I'm in the market to buy a new car. Having said that, if my current track record continues....I have a feeling I'll be purchasing an IS-f. :-)

Best of luck to everyone...no matter what vehicle you purchase. :-D

E6BAV8R

The reality still exists that there is a difference of about $3,500; not to mention the Lexus still has more options than the BMW (in his example).

Who has the time? I don't know, is it worth it to spend 5 minutes reading a section of the manual that will save you thousands of dollars over the lifetime you own your car - it all depends on personal opinion I suppose. Apparently it would have been worth it to the OP, considering he is griping about cost of maintaining his car.

I agree, the dealership should do that for you, but we all know why they are in business - to make money; and you can bet they are going to try and get every dollar they can out of you. Some dealers are honest and good to do business with, but they are few and far between unfortunately.

chikoo

We all know that people who buy a BMW will defend that extra price for the sheer "ultimate driving machine" experience, and not the free maintenance.

It is a different thing that I found the IS250 to be a better experience than a BMW 328i.

MBTC

Just to toss my BMW vs. Lexus experience in the mix, I was very seriously considering a 328i instead of an IS250 (either had plenty of horsepower for me, I'm more interested in fuel economy really).

The numbers at that time came down to about $5k more for a "stripped" 328i, while the IS250 didn't even come "stripped", even the base model was much better equipped than the BMW. Configuring the 328i, at least using the web based configurator, and getting it to a point where the options matched what was on the base model IS put the price almost 10k more! There's where your free maintenance cost goes on those cars, and to be honest owning the BMW after 100k miles would worry me with the reputation they have.

Long story short, I thought the base IS250 had more gadgetry than I really needed, but now that I have gotten used to all the creature comforts, especially the stereo (better than BMW base audio system), XM radio, and bluetooth audio for the ipod, I am now wondering if I will ever be able to own a car without these features, so I'm far happier than if I had gotten the 328i stripped down.

Not to mention I paid several thousand less than MSRP, and the BMW dealer in my area has a reputation for not wanting to deal. I doubt I would have gotten such a nice price from them.