i250 Lexus CPO Fraud
04-21-11, 10:09 AM
#106
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Not so fast.
It would be 50/50 if it was non-CPO vehicle.
The fact that the vehicle was sold as CPO which requires due diligence and not mere reliance on a carfax, and now they themselves are refusing to work on it because it was in an accident says something. This is more like 75/25, not 50/50.
This is true as long as they do not end up proving that the car was in an accident after the Sale. So watch out what you speak.
It would be 50/50 if it was non-CPO vehicle.
The fact that the vehicle was sold as CPO which requires due diligence and not mere reliance on a carfax, and now they themselves are refusing to work on it because it was in an accident says something. This is more like 75/25, not 50/50.
This is true as long as they do not end up proving that the car was in an accident after the Sale. So watch out what you speak.
I’m really hoping that can make it to Tuesday without anything happening to the car. I know for a fact that this car has not been in an accident since i purchased it. Hopefully when the technician looks at the car he can tell that whatever work was done was more than 6 months ago.
04-21-11, 10:14 AM
#107
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This is false. You're correct that CPO'ing a car requires due diligence. In fact, the exact due diligence it requires is found here: http://www.lexus.com/cpo/pdf/CPO_161_Checklist.pdf
You'll see right at the top a check box for "Complete CARFAX history report", then next to that you'll see "Meets standards" and "Does not meet standards". This is the only reference in the whole inspection to anything regarding car or accident history.
That's because a Lexus that has been in an accident can still be CPO. The only restrictions are that 1) if the car is a salvage title car, it cannot be CPO and 2) if during the inspection they uncover evidence of flooding or frame damage, it cannot be CPO. Otherwise, any Lexus that meets the CPO requirements (last 6 model years, under 70k miles) can be CPO'd, even if it's been in an accident.
The dealership performing the inspection in this case provided a CARFAX history report, which was clean. Therefore the dealership can legitimately check "Meets standards", because 1) there is no salvage title and 2) there is no evidence of flooding or frame damage.
Even if the original dealership that inspected the car had discovered evidence of an accident, as long as there was no existing or frame damage and everything was repaired and replaced to Lexus spec, the car can still be CPO. The only issue would have arisen if the dealership found out about this accident but did not disclose it to the buyer.
Therefore, the mere fact that it was CPO has no bearing on this, no matter how much anyone would like it to.
You'll see right at the top a check box for "Complete CARFAX history report", then next to that you'll see "Meets standards" and "Does not meet standards". This is the only reference in the whole inspection to anything regarding car or accident history.
That's because a Lexus that has been in an accident can still be CPO. The only restrictions are that 1) if the car is a salvage title car, it cannot be CPO and 2) if during the inspection they uncover evidence of flooding or frame damage, it cannot be CPO. Otherwise, any Lexus that meets the CPO requirements (last 6 model years, under 70k miles) can be CPO'd, even if it's been in an accident.
The dealership performing the inspection in this case provided a CARFAX history report, which was clean. Therefore the dealership can legitimately check "Meets standards", because 1) there is no salvage title and 2) there is no evidence of flooding or frame damage.
Even if the original dealership that inspected the car had discovered evidence of an accident, as long as there was no existing or frame damage and everything was repaired and replaced to Lexus spec, the car can still be CPO. The only issue would have arisen if the dealership found out about this accident but did not disclose it to the buyer.
Therefore, the mere fact that it was CPO has no bearing on this, no matter how much anyone would like it to.
On one hand, this does not say the car needs to be accident free, but thats not how they market it and sell it as.. "not new, not used, blah blah blah.. " and the salemen all imply that it has to be accident free inorder to be a CPO
04-21-11, 10:24 AM
#108
Have you got the car inspected by a body shop or someone for frame damage? I mean it wouldn't bug me too much if it wasn't a major accident and the parts replaced where Lexus OEM by a legit bodyshop, but i'd at least expect the price of the car to reflect its been in an accident still. I've seen a lot of CPO cars with mismatched bumpers (not just Lexus), so i assume the argument that they don't have to be "100% accident free" to be CPO is true.
04-21-11, 10:26 AM
#109
i guess thats where the 50/50 part comes in.
On one hand, this does not say the car needs to be accident free, but thats not how they market it and sell it as.. "not new, not used, blah blah blah.. " and the salemen all imply that it has to be accident free inorder to be a CPO
On one hand, this does not say the car needs to be accident free, but thats not how they market it and sell it as.. "not new, not used, blah blah blah.. " and the salemen all imply that it has to be accident free inorder to be a CPO
Therefore I don't think you have a bulletproof legal case, however you have a very strong case for a general customer service appeal to Lexus to make this right, which it sounds like is currently in process.
04-21-11, 10:49 AM
#110
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Have you got the car inspected by a body shop or someone for frame damage? I mean it wouldn't bug me too much if it wasn't a major accident and the parts replaced where Lexus OEM by a legit bodyshop, but i'd at least expect the price of the car to reflect its been in an accident still. I've seen a lot of CPO cars with mismatched bumpers (not just Lexus), so i assume the argument that they don't have to be "100% accident free" to be CPO is true.
04-21-11, 11:15 AM
#111
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Unfortunately - the only wrong being done by Lexus is by dealer B refusing to honor your warranty.
A CPO Vehicle is a CPO vehicle and they will have to stand by their warranty. If they are dumb enough to CPO it...well then they are going to have to honor their mistake...Lexus corporate will make sure of that.
As far as dealer A?
Sorry to say but when you purchase a car, it is your duty to inspect it. Caveat emptor and buyer beware. You failed to carry out your due dilligence and it is not the dealer's fault that you purchased a wrecked car from them.
I will say that you have handled this very well thus far and am sorry you bought a wrecked vehicle.
However - We all learn this lesson sooner or later and luckily for you, you purchased a wrecked car with a CPO warranty.
Most others aren't as fortunate.
Good luck.
A CPO Vehicle is a CPO vehicle and they will have to stand by their warranty. If they are dumb enough to CPO it...well then they are going to have to honor their mistake...Lexus corporate will make sure of that.
As far as dealer A?
Sorry to say but when you purchase a car, it is your duty to inspect it. Caveat emptor and buyer beware. You failed to carry out your due dilligence and it is not the dealer's fault that you purchased a wrecked car from them.
I will say that you have handled this very well thus far and am sorry you bought a wrecked vehicle.
However - We all learn this lesson sooner or later and luckily for you, you purchased a wrecked car with a CPO warranty.
Most others aren't as fortunate.
Good luck.
04-21-11, 12:36 PM
#112
I'll probably take the car to my mechanic depending on what the technician's findings are on next tuesday. I asked on another thread in the forum where the poor guy had to replace his fender/hood bumper in the "the accident" thread about how large the impact of his accident was. Based on the responses, backing into the car will cause that much of a damage, then just replacing the headlights and bumper may be a minor accident, but i wont know for sure until they take off the covers and see what was really replaced.
Also, i would say take it to a straight out body shop, not a mechanic. Not to say your mechanic doesn't know what repaired parts are gonna look like, but if you find it is damaged underneath or if there is frame damage, a body shop inspection is what you will need as proof.
04-25-11, 05:47 PM
#114
go ask your local consumer protection agency and ask for help about your issue.they will contact both dealers and might have an internal arrangements about fixing the problem. lexus will not sacrifice their name/reputation on this isolated problem its just a matter who are they going to deal to specially if involves the public interest.
04-26-11, 07:53 AM
#117
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@ keppie - i would have preferred to be there as well, but unfortunately i couldnt take a day off.
@birador - ill go through the consumer protection and ncsd if nothing happend through lexus corp
Last edited by is250cpo; 04-26-11 at 07:56 AM.
04-26-11, 06:13 PM
#118
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picked up the car.
the service adviser told me that the Lexus technician, after inspecting the car, said it should not have been certified.
We'll see what they write up for the lexus corp review and what the outcome is.
They also fixed the gap between the bumper and headlight from the original repair for free too.
the service adviser told me that the Lexus technician, after inspecting the car, said it should not have been certified.
We'll see what they write up for the lexus corp review and what the outcome is.
They also fixed the gap between the bumper and headlight from the original repair for free too.
Last edited by is250cpo; 04-26-11 at 07:03 PM.
04-26-11, 06:24 PM
#119
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sucks dude, you're in a tough spot right now. at least there's an official word now that YOU aren't at fault here, which leaves the dealership and/or Lexus Corp to make you happy.
or catch a lawsuit.
or catch a lawsuit.
04-27-11, 05:52 AM
#120
picked up the car.
the service adviser told me that the Lexus technician, after inspecting the car, said it should not have been certified.
We'll see what they write up for the lexus corp review and what the outcome is.
They also fixed the gap between the bumper and headlight from the original repair for free too.
the service adviser told me that the Lexus technician, after inspecting the car, said it should not have been certified.
We'll see what they write up for the lexus corp review and what the outcome is.
They also fixed the gap between the bumper and headlight from the original repair for free too.