calvin2376

iTrader: (2)

I agree with most of this post. However I do actually believe there's a place on CL, and forums in general, for back-and-forth debating, as well as helping each other out. The key though is that it should be DEBATE, as opposed to arguing. Debate takes place when two people of different opinions present evidence to back their opinion and to counter points made by others. When debate is civil and based on evidence and material claims, it can be fruitful by promoting new ways of thinking and spurring discussion. Too often though I see threads start out as debate and then quickly devolve into arguing and personal attacks.

The key is mutual respect among CL members. Rarely will a thread on here provoke debate over a question that has a 110% clear and inarguably correct answer. RWD vs AWD is a perfect example. This question presents a perfect opportunity for debate: different people have different opinions based on different evidence and different experiences. There isn't a "right" answer; there are pros and cons to each side. It's ripe for debate in this sense, as it opens the door for members to debate the relative merits of these claims and the weights of importance of each pro and con. To have this remain a fruitful debate and not turn into a petty argument, however, the participants in the debate must retain respect for each other and recognize that there multiple sides to each question. Blindly defending one's side against well-reasoned and -evidenced counterpoints doesn't progress or further debate.

knownastro

Everyone is talking about AWD vs. RWD on icy and snowy roads but plowed roads. But living here in Saskatoon SK, Canada, AWD is really a beauty after a heavy snowfall during the night, you don't need to dig your car out of the snow early in the morning. You can just power through with AWD grip and be on your way.

And honestly, it's just physics. When RWD cars lose tractions, it's in their rear wheel causing their tail to spin out. THAT's dangerous, I've experienced it, you just can't control the momentum of the *** of your car sliding. No matter what winter tires you have, there's still situations where they'll lose grip eventually in the winter.

But that's almost besides my point, I'm more concerned about having to wake up in the morning on my way to work/school and spending 20 minutes digging out my RWD car. Now that's a pain in the *** and for that reason I'd pay the 5 grand upfront not to deal with that during the winters. I've driven my IS 300 WITH winter tires here in Saskatchewan, my tail spins out a little almost every single time I take a corner with any momentum (before traction control kicks in that is, thank god).

Given my trunk was empty, I still think the peace of mind I get from an AWD IS 250 is well worth the price.

Toymota

You don't need AWD at all. There's no snow or ice and not even any hills in South Florida. In the rain, good summer performance tires are better than all-seasons that you most likely get on AWD cars. You can read the comparison on Tirerack.

In fact, they don't even sell AWD ISs in this region. Most of them will be used from up north, subjected to the abuse of harsh winters, so why would you want one of those?

Instead of asking what negatives there are to AWD, ask what positives there are in South Florida...

Jmags

iTrader: (1)

Kurtz, you posted a video of a guy driving down plowed roads, with maybe an inch of snow on the ground.

I don't care what kind of tires you have on your RWD you are NOT going anywhere with it in snow like this.


yes, that's a road there.

i took the bronco out for some fun and then decided to see if the AWD lexus could handle it, guess what........it did better than the bronco! I couldn't believe it, but it did.

panda327

iTrader: (3)

^
your driving the wrong car if the snow is that bad where you live

Sango

iTrader: (10)

I would have to agree with that to Panda. If the car is too low, it could possibly get beached in.

On the other hand. Too much snow - just work virtual at home. Done Car problem solved.

Jmags

iTrader: (1)

Snow was that bad from Northcarolina to maine this past winter.

Like i said, I took the bronco out for some fun.......and then took the IS out to see how it did.

I was pretty surprised that even though I was "plowing snow" the lexus did pretty good..

Next time I'll get some videos... here's some more pics of the snow we got this year..

KillaIS250

iTrader: (1)

^ Damn i wanna see that kinda snow for just ONE day in my neighborhood. Will never happen in CA lol

Kurtz

iTrader: (1)

and I also posted a video of two different RWD cars in 12 inches of snow.

Maybe you missed that one?



Again, virtually nobody had AWD cars for most of the 20th century... and for most of THAT they didn't have FWD cars commonly either... and yet amazingly everyone still got around in snow.

I grew up in NY... our family never owned an AWD car in that time... mostly RWD, with one FWD toyota later on... never a problem in winter.

I lived in Canada for about a year... again in a RWD car (with a V8 even), again no problem.

In this thread and others folks who live in Canada, NY, Chicago, Mass., and various places in the midwest, with RWD 350s and RWD IS-Fs, have all mentioned they get around just fine with RWD.

Unless your theory is that they were all wizards with flying carpets, how do you explain it?

cloo7

let's all hold hands and get some hugs and close this thread... i think we all can agree to that.

Justin2JZ

Well AWD is better when starting from a dig.

Kurtz

iTrader: (1)

Do you mean for racing?

That's only true if the car has enough power to be traction limited.

Which the ISx50 doesn't.

(see also the fact the RWD cars have faster 0-60 and 1/4 mile times).


Really under 400-500 hp having AWD won't help in a drag race.... (at 400 you can avoid the need with better tires/suspension setup... at 500, unless you're on non-street-tires, you're finally at the point the AWD launch benefit will be worth a crap compared to the higher weight and drivetrain losses it brings with it)

Disclaimer: The 400-500 is a general rule of thumb, and it'll depend a bit on situation to situation (ie how well the track is preped, what the actual power curve to reach the peak output numbers look like, etc). The main point though is that there's no 'performance' benefit (quite the opposite in fact) in having AWD on a 200-300 hp car if you're talking performance on a paved surface.

Now, mud/dirt/otherwise non-paved racing? Sure. That's where the WRX and its brethren made their name.

Justin2JZ

Indeed very true. I agree AWD has no performance benefit with cars under 300hp but once youre probably touching 500hp you will most likely need DR's or Slicks to get a good launch where with AWD you can hook every time.

Jmags

iTrader: (1)

get ready for the studies that prove that wrong, I can feel them about to show up.

Justin2JZ