RWD vs AWD
06-30-11, 09:09 PM
#122
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Awd has it's advantages and disadvantages. It's not a black and white situation and no need to go on a crusade one way or the other. It's simply a preference. Personally if I go awd I buy a car designed from the start as awd like Audi or an evo.
07-01-11, 03:58 AM
#123
Audi's were front wheel drive converted to awd. Lexus is the other way around. I'd much rather have it the lexus way..
07-01-11, 04:57 AM
#124
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No, Audi cars were designed from the ground up as AWD vehicles. Although FWD variants may also be produced, Quattro is anything but an afterthought. The latest generation of the Audi Quattro system has a longitudinally mounted engine that normally is biased to send 60% of the torque to the rear wheels for a more RWD feel. The previous generation split torque 50/50. Audi has a long history competing and winning in off-road rally racing.
07-01-11, 05:44 AM
#125
Nobody has produced any though.
My opinion on the value of extended vehicle warranties for example is the polar opposite of what it used to be, based largely on the information I've seen in this forum over time... (a combination of 3 things really- the insanely high price of Lexus parts, the significantly lower price of the warranty through the online guys like Jerry Johnson, and the several relatively common expensive issues that come up that while relatively minor (ie the dash needles fading, the ML sub blowing, not 'engine explodes' stuff) do come up pretty often and are expensive to have fixed... add the transferability of said warranty to aid resale and I was easily swayed to the benefits of buying one when on previous vehicles I never was... and indeed, I own one on my car today.
I've provided repeated track and test results from multiple reliable sources, in addition to the numerous anedotal stories of myself (and many others) who live or have lived in Canada, MA, NY, Chicago, and elsewhere in the snowbelt and all get around just great on RWD with snow tires in winter.
The AWD guys have provided... nothing... other than the occasional "AWD is awesome!" or "I drive past stranded cars in my AWD!" stories. Often their stories even contain claims that are provably, factually, untrue (like all-seasons out performing snow tires in most circumstances).
The few people that have provided a specific example of a RWD with proper tires having any trouble when an AWD car did not were providing examples of them struggling to start from a dead stop up a steep hill. Which is the one case where I agreed from the start that AWD works better.
By ALL means if there's real, provable, objective evidence, I can certainly be convinced by it. I've just yet to see any... all the info of that sort I've seen agrees with my opinion.
Which is kinda why I have that opinion.
I'm a fan of facts and evidence.
Last edited by Kurtz; 07-01-11 at 05:48 AM.
07-01-11, 07:26 AM
#128
For most people there is no good reason to use AWD. They just don't know that.
(see for example all the folks who had no idea AWD didn't help them stop, or no idea all-seasons suck)
AWD does have several important applications, and I've mentioned those as well in the thread.
If you need to frequently climb steep inclines in the snow... or you often take the vehicle off paved surfaces into mud/dirt type environment... or your car has north of 500 hp and you want to actually use all that power on street tires...
For people whose vehicle use is described by that they'll absolutely see benefit from AWD. But that describes very, very few 2IS owners on the whole.
But even in those cases the AWD vehicles would benefit greatly from using the proper tires on the car (see the fellow here from Canada who takes his AWD lexus into the mountains for skiing and knows enough to put snow tires on it for example).
But for a guy who drives on normal-inclined paved roads, has a 200-300 hp car, and see anywhere from ZERO snow (the original poster) to maybe snow for a few months a year (most of the northern US population)?
AWD is nothing but negatives for that person...and that describes the vast majority of drivers in the US... especially AWD where you never change from the crappy all-season tires most AWD owner use. . That person would be better in every way buying the RWD vehicle and using the proper tires. He'll spend thousands less, get better mileage, and have a lighter, quicker, more agile, and safer car that offers significantly better handling and braking in all weather situations he's likely to encounter.
Last edited by Kurtz; 07-01-11 at 07:30 AM.
07-01-11, 10:31 AM
#131
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Yes but were also human and thus feelings guide many of our choices. Cars are generally a personal choice and if someone likes the (false) sense of confidence from awd, or perhaps they dislike the feeling of spinning their tires in th rain, then can you really blame them for buying something that makes them feel better? You bought a lexus when there is no need to spend the money on one, but just like those who purchase awd it makes you feel better driving a lexus than driving a cheap korean car.
Last edited by kannon; 07-01-11 at 11:17 AM.
07-01-11, 12:20 PM
#132
Yes but were also human and thus feelings guide many of our choices. Cars are generally a personal choice and if someone likes the (false) sense of confidence from awd, or perhaps they dislike the feeling of spinning their tires in th rain, then can you really blame them for buying something that makes them feel better? You bought a lexus when there is no need to spend the money on one, but just like those who purchase awd it makes you feel better driving a lexus than driving a cheap korean car.
I bought my IS350 because at the time it was the best car available for features, performance, and value. There was no cheap korean car anywhere close.
There still isn't honestly... the Genesis is the nearest thing, and the sedan is a significantly larger vehicle than the 2IS.
If Hyundai had sold a car that was comparable in features, reliability, and performance for 10 grand less I'd have saved the 10 grand, but they didn't (and still don't).
The only vehicle close at the time was the G35, and it fell just a touch short in all those categories in comparison. Even today I don't think there's a sport sedan that stands up to the RWD IS350 for the money, and the G3x is still the closest thing. (Anything german is crap for reliability and insanely overpriced, korea makes no sedan in the class, and nobody domestic really does either cept maybe the Caddy CTS which is also overpriced and underperforms)
That's really a topic for another thread though.
I still try to take a more optimistic view of the folks who bought AWD and would prefer to think they did so because they believed the hype, not because they knew it was BS and chose to ignore it. Hence my attempt to offer objective evidence of where, when, and why, AWD does offer some use and value, and the much more common cases where it doesn't... so that folks going forward can more accurately evaluate their choice of drivetrain.
Folks are free to ignore it... folks are certainly free to disagree with it too, but when they do so I'd hope they do so with more to back it up than "Hu uh! AWD is awesome because... uh... it is!"
07-01-11, 01:03 PM
#135
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What im saying is that logically and physics wise there is no reason to own a lexus. Taking a cheap car with no air conditioning achieves the same result, going from point a to point b. It will be cheaper and provide better fuel economy. But you feel better and enjoy the lexus more, thus you ignored physics and logic and paid a lot more for the lexus. So in essence you are no better than the people who got awd because that is what they prefer.
This is not to say what you have stated is incorrect, it isn't and you have done an admirable job of proving it, Im just saying we all have our preferences and there is no need to attack eachother over them.
This is not to say what you have stated is incorrect, it isn't and you have done an admirable job of proving it, Im just saying we all have our preferences and there is no need to attack eachother over them.