Micaiah

He says it here.

marine1342

@calvin the print-out sheet that carmax gave me which is from autocheck states that the vehicle was in one accident and that there is frame/unibody damage records
Accident reported on 10/24/2011 in Miami florida (with case number) then two months later on
12/28/2011 Location FL, Source Auto Auction, Details - Auction announced as frame damage
1/19/2011 FL, Motor Vehicle Dept, Title #
1/24/2011 FL, Auto Auction, Auction announced as fleet/lease
1/26/2011 FL, Auto Auction, Auction announced as unibody damage
4/22/2011 Naperville, IL Registration Event
Then in another part on the report it says that a wholesale auto auction has rpeorted that the vehicle has frame damage, which can weaken the structure of the vehicle.
So short of trying to pull up info on this auction and info of the lexus as the auction (which would be a nightmare in itself), it seems to me this vehicle was reported as frame damaged (granted to what extent I dont know but still)

Now what carmax said that every large body corporation or dealership checks the autocheck when buying from auction lots, whether thats true or not, it would just greatly surprise me if the dealership bought a car without even looking at the title or little bit of history on it.

Calvin, thanks for your recommendations, I will be following them very closely. Do you (or anyone else) recommend I call up the dealership and tell them I want to trade in my car for the same amount purchased, and if they don't comply go to Toyota Corp?
Again, I don't want to deal with this group anymore, and maybe I should just go directly to Toyota Corp. and let them know of whats going on and I want the car returned for a full refund.

Funny how that after I complained about the spare tire and the frame damage/accident, a spare tire magically appeared.....

calvin2376

iTrader: (2)

Ah I see. OK so the auto auction company reported there was frame damage, which pretty much necessarily means the company reported it to all potential buyers at the auction, including the dealership.

Here's my advice. Call the GM of the dealership (and again, the more polite and respectful you are throughout this process the better it will go) and explain:

1) You have the AutoCheck report that clearly shows the accident and reported frame damage
2) On this report it shows clearly that the auto auction from which the car was purchased reported there was frame damage, meaning it was disclosed to potential buyers, so the dealership almost certainly was apprised of this before purchasing the car
3) The dealership did not disclose this, nor did they provide the AutoCheck report which disclosed the damage, during the purchase process - they only provided the Carfax report which they knew was clean
4) At this point, you don't want to pursue legal action or escalate to corporate, all you'd like to do is return the car for the amount you purchased it for and either get your money back or put it toward a different car on the lot. You should choose which of these two options you prefer - don't offer this as a choice to the dealership. I will say this: I know right now you may feel you never want to work with this dealership again. However, the GM will be more willing to work a deal with you if you say you want to return the car and purchase a different car from his lot, because then he still gets some business. This is all predicated upon the assumption of course that he has or can get a car spec'd how you want.

Explain that you'd just like him to make this right, and if you can return the car for what you paid for (this is important - he'll probably say "Sure you can return the car, less depreciation and taxes, etc", but this is not what you want nor what you're entitled to) then you'll consider the matter closed.

If he balks, then explain you have no choice but to refer it to your lawyer and contact Toyota corporate, as well as file a complaint with the BBB and provide negative feedback on your Lexus sales survey (regardless of whether you've filled it out or not) and dealership rating sites. Don't make this sound like a threat - make it sound like it's an unfortunate matter of fact, since you'll have no other choice.

I still recommend getting it fully inspected by another Lexus dealer ASAP, since going into the above conversation with the GM you'd be in a better position if you could definitively prove it has frame damage. I also recommend recording everything from here out, and I recommend going to Lexus.com and checking what the Lexus Service History says, here's the link: https://secure.drivers.lexus.com/lex...serviceHistory. This is a Service History specific to Lexus dealers, and could potentially shed light on a few things. If the accident shows up on here (or any evidence thereof) prior to your purchase date, then you can be 100% assured that the dealership knew about it prior to sale.

Keep us updated, and good luck.

calvin2376

iTrader: (2)

Addition to the above: call the dealership from which you purchased the VSA warranty and ask them if it applies if the car has frame damage. If it doesn't, this makes your case stronger, because Lexus then sold you an invalid warranty. If it does apply, then at least you know. I can't determine whether it does apply or does not from Lexus' website.

indyberett

iTrader: (2)

Autocheck is always what dealers use when they buy the cars at auction, because it is included in the auction process. CarFax is often missing information. I have found their database is not as good as Autocheck. Ebay adds this as part of all cars sold on their site. Many times in the ads you will see the seller stating a clean carfax, but the autocheck record has an accident shown.

ALWAYS USE AUTOCHECK WHEN BUYING A CAR!

I have yet to see a situation where Autocheck does not show something that CarFax has listed, but I see it all the time where CarFax does not have something listed that AutoCheck does!

Make sure that they had you sign the as is no warranty paper as required by federal law. Many dealers forget this as part of the selling package. I've seen many people use this as their leverage of getting the car bought back by the dealer. Usually lemon laws only apply to new cars and not preowned.

threevoIS

^ What the above poster is referring to is the "Buyers Guide" I will post a picture of it once the scan hits my email. There is still no law about frame damage, but I would suggest that if the company you bought it from is corporate, and not a private dealership to contact them. When I worked at a corp. place the higher ups would not car people at all. They are huge pussies when it comes to customer complaints and would give in rather easily to things.

Micaiah

YOU GO CALVIN!!! Woot!! Excellent advice!!

I'll be watching this thread. I hope this works out. No. It WILL work out!

marine1342

Well talked to troy he said that the is250 is unibody so any accident will affect the structural integrity of the car, and that work like a damaged radiator core support will put the car under the frame damage portion.
Lexus will insure vehicles unless its titled (i.e. salvage)
From working on my Datsun Z (also a unibody), core support, while not ultra important still plays a roll with the car, and if the car was in an accident to damage the core support to get it replaced (hopefully it was replaced) then it more than likely affected other smaller portions of the car, particularly in the engine bay.
So now my game plan is to have Lexus do a full frame inspection for damage, take their report and talk to the dealership tomorrow and then follow calvin's recommendations.
Until that happens tomorrow, I have now parked the car until this gets resolved....
Time to break out the winter beater....

marine1342

@indyberret if you could get the page scanned and posted I'd greatly appreciate it, right now I'm gonna try and go through all the crap I signed between meetings and see what they might have missed. I still have the window sticker saying that the car had warranty.

Thanks for all the support on this you guys, I really do appreciate it and you are all just making this forum that much better!

threevoIS

i need to host a PDF an I will upload it

calvin2376

iTrader: (2)

Sounds good, I'm keeping my fingers crossed for you. I'm subscribed and looking forward to updates!

is250cpo

iTrader: (1)

Yes, if the dealer belongs to a corp, try contacting the C-level executives if the GM of the dealer is not very helpful.

calvin2376

iTrader: (2)

What he means, if this wasn't totally clear, is that some dealers are independently- or family-owned, and the owner only owns one dealership. However some dealerships are part of larger corporations that own multiple dealerships, sometimes all Lexus sometimes a mix of brands. So Lexus of Rockville in Maryland, for example, is owned by Sonic Automotive, which is a company that owns multiple different dealerships.

Start out by working just with the GM, since he's the one that's in a best and most incentivized position to help you. But if he balks, another avenue you have (in addition to Toyota/Lexus corporate, BBB, Lexus survey, lawyer, dealership rating sites, etc) is contacting the parent corporation (if one exists) of the dealership in question.

gompka

iTrader: (6)

Frame damage isn't always bad, you can have a small accident that bends your radiator support. The radiator support is part of the unibody and if that gets bent its considered "unibody damage", but it doesn't impact safety or reliability of the car at all, may affect the selling price though. You should still try to get the dealership to make things right though.

marine1342

Well thats what I'm guessing is what was labeled as 'frame damage' on this car, if not more. Because it was a front end accident, to the point where the hood was replaced and the top radiator core support (from what I can see the top, maybe even the side flanges/wings of the bar).
Whats bothering me about this that this information was not told to me, and neither was the fact that the vehicle was involved in an accident. Highly doubt the dealership didn't know about it, because on the Lexus registry site, prior to it being offered for sale at the Toyota dealership, McGrath Lexus of Chicago bought the car which means that they did a inspection on everything, which means that more than likely they knew about the accident and 'frame damage' label.
I haven't noticed any vibrations at high speeds or pulling to any side, only thing going on now is that the A/C is intermittent and im getting a surge of rpm when sitting at red light. Not sure on the A/C but the engine might be due to carbonbuild up but thats another issue.
Like I've said before, not wanting to beat a dead horse but, Just don't like the shadyness of the dealership with how long its taken to get my parts (plus apparently they weren't supposed to sell me a car without a spare), how critical information was kept from me in regards to accidents and frame damage, and how now after I complained, a spare tire magically came up. My guts telling me there's more than meets the eye on all this, and I'm not liking it at all....

@calvin and @is250cpo
Thanks for the tips, just as I figured, don't go jumping directly to corporate, but slowly escalate if the problems don't get solved at each level. In this case the gm, then the parent group then corporate.

After talking it over with my father, I don't want to deal with the dealership anymore. Meaning I don't want to trade in the vehicle for something else on their lot. I've had really crappy service to say the least and would prefer to do business elsewhere. Unless of course I got a hell of a good deal on something, but doubt that would happen.

I'll be calling and talking to the dealership tomorrow, and hopefully getting something figured out. I'll keep you guys posted with any information I get or find, answer questions and see what the dealership says.