Preferred tire for long life and great handling even in rain
11-17-11, 08:04 AM
#61
Ok, you are all not listening to the Original Poster. He asked for a tire that has a long life and is all-season with decent grip in the rain.
He did not ask for performance, he asked for longevity.
To the OP, your best bet is to go on tires-easy.com. They will usually have the cheapest prices. Look at the UTQG number. The higher the number, the higher the tread life. You didn't tell us what your budget is, but Continental ExtremeContact DWS is rated at 540, and Michelin Pilot Sport A/S Plus is rated at 500.
From a personal experience with the stock 18" wheels, my Kuhmo Ecsta Asx's have been on for 50,000 miles so far, and they still have 6/32 tread left. They've increased a lot in price since I have bought them, but they are still a great value.
He did not ask for performance, he asked for longevity.
To the OP, your best bet is to go on tires-easy.com. They will usually have the cheapest prices. Look at the UTQG number. The higher the number, the higher the tread life. You didn't tell us what your budget is, but Continental ExtremeContact DWS is rated at 540, and Michelin Pilot Sport A/S Plus is rated at 500.
From a personal experience with the stock 18" wheels, my Kuhmo Ecsta Asx's have been on for 50,000 miles so far, and they still have 6/32 tread left. They've increased a lot in price since I have bought them, but they are still a great value.
11-17-11, 08:51 AM
#62
he asked for long life and great handling.
Says so right in the thread title.
All-seasons suck at great handling... doubly so in the rain.
More important than that (though the OP didn't bring this one up) is stopping... which all seasons also suck at.
You'd want summer performance tires for those things in all temps and conditions above freezing.
Unfortunately summer performance tires tend to have shorter lifespans... as with most things concerning cars, you have to decide where you're willing to compromise.
For me, safety and performance trump longevity, hence for the TWO things the OP is asking about I tend to favor one over the other since you can't really get both, and recommended accordingly.
Further, said recomendation is reasonably inexpensive, so even though you might go through 2 sets in the time you can run one set of all seasons in, you're getting significantly better safety and performance the whole time, and costs aren't that out of line with each other.
To the OP, your best bet is to go on tires-easy.com. They will usually have the cheapest prices. Look at the UTQG number. The higher the number, the higher the tread life. You didn't tell us what your budget is, but Continental ExtremeContact DWS is rated at 540, and Michelin Pilot Sport A/S Plus is rated at 500.
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tirete....jsp?techid=48
Originally Posted by tire rack
When looking at UTQG ratings it is important to realize that the Department of Transportation does not conduct the tests..
...While the Treadwear Grade was originally intended to be assigned purely scientifically, it has also become a marketing tool used by manufacturers to help position and promote their tires....
...The problem with UTQG Treadwear Grades is that they are open to some interpretation on the part of the tire manufacturer because they are assigned after the tire has only experienced a little treadwear as it runs the 7,200 miles. This means that the tire manufacturers need to extrapolate their raw wear data when they are assigning Treadwear Grades, and that their grades can to some extent reflect how conservative or optimistic their marketing department is. Typically, comparing the Treadwear Grades of tire lines within a single brand is somewhat helpful, while attempting to compare the grades between different brands is not as helpful
...While the Treadwear Grade was originally intended to be assigned purely scientifically, it has also become a marketing tool used by manufacturers to help position and promote their tires....
...The problem with UTQG Treadwear Grades is that they are open to some interpretation on the part of the tire manufacturer because they are assigned after the tire has only experienced a little treadwear as it runs the 7,200 miles. This means that the tire manufacturers need to extrapolate their raw wear data when they are assigning Treadwear Grades, and that their grades can to some extent reflect how conservative or optimistic their marketing department is. Typically, comparing the Treadwear Grades of tire lines within a single brand is somewhat helpful, while attempting to compare the grades between different brands is not as helpful
Last edited by Kurtz; 11-17-11 at 08:58 AM.
11-17-11, 05:07 PM
#63
Going to quote my reply in a different but similar thread:
I was waiting for Kurtz to say that. 
But I think he generalizes too much. Sure, most all-seasons suck including the Bridgestone Turanza EL400-02 and the many others which are often fitted as original equipment to passenger cars. But this is more because they are standard touring class tires; not high performance tires. Fortunately, most of them are not even available in sizes for the IS. What is available are some very good ultra high performance all-seasons such as:
- Bridgestone Potenza RE970AS Pole Position
- Continental ExtremeContact DWS
- Michelin Pilot Sport A/S Plus
- Pirelli PZero Nero All Season
Now I haven't found a direct head to head comparison of any of these all-seasons versus summer tires, so I'll try and compare objective tests from Tire Rack using the same car and facilities. Here is the data for the Continental ExtremeContact DWS versus the Hankook Ventus V12 evo K110, a reasonably priced max performance summer tire, versus the Michelin Pilot Super Sport, pretty much the best (but expensive) summer tire you can get.
Conti DWS vs Hankook V12 vs Michelin PSS
Slalom (sec) dry: 5.25, 5.26, 5.04
Slalom (sec) wet: 5.24, 5.61, 5.10
Lap dry: 31.89, 31.57, 30.54
Lap wet: 32.44, 34.12, 31.37
50mph stop (ft) dry: 88.2, 84.8, 80.3
50mph stop (ft) wet: 89.9, 97.7, 96.3
cornering g dry: 0.97, 0.90, 1.07
cornering g wet: 0.91, 0.77, 0.97
So we can see the Hankooks are pretty decent in the dry, better stopping distance than the Contis, but not as much insane performance as the Michelins.
In the wet however, the Conti all-seasons are really starting to shine. Most of its wet numbers are close to its dry numbers, performing better than the Hankook summer tires which have really deteriorated in the wet, and even stopping shorter than the Michelins.
So I don't think it's right to generalize with "all all-seasons suck in all seasons" and that summer tires are always better. There are some really bad summer tires too like the Bridgestone Turanza ER33 which is a grand touring tire fitted as OE to the IS. Then there are some really good all-seasons like the Conti DWS which seemingly cuts through water like it's not there. You need to look at each specific tire and see how it performs over all the different criteria and decide which one suits your needs best.
I think you should consider the Conti DWS. It's reasonably priced, has pretty good performance in the dry and incredible performance in the wet, a 50,000 mile treadlife warranty and UTQG 540. It will also be able to handle snow and ice should you get any.
But I think he generalizes too much. Sure, most all-seasons suck including the Bridgestone Turanza EL400-02 and the many others which are often fitted as original equipment to passenger cars. But this is more because they are standard touring class tires; not high performance tires. Fortunately, most of them are not even available in sizes for the IS. What is available are some very good ultra high performance all-seasons such as:- Bridgestone Potenza RE970AS Pole Position
- Continental ExtremeContact DWS
- Michelin Pilot Sport A/S Plus
- Pirelli PZero Nero All Season
Now I haven't found a direct head to head comparison of any of these all-seasons versus summer tires, so I'll try and compare objective tests from Tire Rack using the same car and facilities. Here is the data for the Continental ExtremeContact DWS versus the Hankook Ventus V12 evo K110, a reasonably priced max performance summer tire, versus the Michelin Pilot Super Sport, pretty much the best (but expensive) summer tire you can get.
Conti DWS vs Hankook V12 vs Michelin PSS
Slalom (sec) dry: 5.25, 5.26, 5.04
Slalom (sec) wet: 5.24, 5.61, 5.10
Lap dry: 31.89, 31.57, 30.54
Lap wet: 32.44, 34.12, 31.37
50mph stop (ft) dry: 88.2, 84.8, 80.3
50mph stop (ft) wet: 89.9, 97.7, 96.3
cornering g dry: 0.97, 0.90, 1.07
cornering g wet: 0.91, 0.77, 0.97
So we can see the Hankooks are pretty decent in the dry, better stopping distance than the Contis, but not as much insane performance as the Michelins.
In the wet however, the Conti all-seasons are really starting to shine. Most of its wet numbers are close to its dry numbers, performing better than the Hankook summer tires which have really deteriorated in the wet, and even stopping shorter than the Michelins.
So I don't think it's right to generalize with "all all-seasons suck in all seasons" and that summer tires are always better. There are some really bad summer tires too like the Bridgestone Turanza ER33 which is a grand touring tire fitted as OE to the IS. Then there are some really good all-seasons like the Conti DWS which seemingly cuts through water like it's not there. You need to look at each specific tire and see how it performs over all the different criteria and decide which one suits your needs best.
I think you should consider the Conti DWS. It's reasonably priced, has pretty good performance in the dry and incredible performance in the wet, a 50,000 mile treadlife warranty and UTQG 540. It will also be able to handle snow and ice should you get any.
11-18-11, 08:55 AM
#65
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What tire does everyone prefer for long life, and great in rain occasionally? Someone told me nitto's but don't they have soft rubber leading to a shorter life? What size tire for 19x9 fronts and 19x10.5 rears? My is250 is lowered with zero wheel well gap on stock 18's. I don't want the tire stretched so much that the rim is protecting the tire. Wondering if I need to raise the car a little? ....
11-18-11, 09:00 AM
#66
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Actually, no.
he asked for long life and great handling.
Says so right in the thread title.
All-seasons suck at great handling... doubly so in the rain.
More important than that (though the OP didn't bring this one up) is stopping... which all seasons also suck at.
You'd want summer performance tires for those things in all temps and conditions above freezing.
Unfortunately summer performance tires tend to have shorter lifespans... as with most things concerning cars, you have to decide where you're willing to compromise.
For me, safety and performance trump longevity, hence for the TWO things the OP is asking about I tend to favor one over the other since you can't really get both, and recommended accordingly.
Further, said recomendation is reasonably inexpensive, so even though you might go through 2 sets in the time you can run one set of all seasons in, you're getting significantly better safety and performance the whole time, and costs aren't that out of line with each other.
UTQG is not always that useful a number...see here:
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tirete....jsp?techid=48
(bold added)
he asked for long life and great handling.
Says so right in the thread title.
All-seasons suck at great handling... doubly so in the rain.
More important than that (though the OP didn't bring this one up) is stopping... which all seasons also suck at.
You'd want summer performance tires for those things in all temps and conditions above freezing.
Unfortunately summer performance tires tend to have shorter lifespans... as with most things concerning cars, you have to decide where you're willing to compromise.
For me, safety and performance trump longevity, hence for the TWO things the OP is asking about I tend to favor one over the other since you can't really get both, and recommended accordingly.
Further, said recomendation is reasonably inexpensive, so even though you might go through 2 sets in the time you can run one set of all seasons in, you're getting significantly better safety and performance the whole time, and costs aren't that out of line with each other.
UTQG is not always that useful a number...see here:
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tirete....jsp?techid=48
(bold added)
I have Continental DWS's and have been riding on them for alitle over 2 years. I can tell you that they do no handle as well as a dedicated summer tire but no one would expect that. However if i wanted a track ***** i would have kept my Evo. These tires do more than plennty for spirited daily driving. As far as the rain, they are absolutely amazing in the rain and stop on a dime. I have gotten out of so many sticky situations in the rain with these tires with zero issues. Now for snow they handle good bu not great. They are not Blizzack or Icebears but they are just fine. I live in Chicago where we see some pretty heavy snowfall in the winter months, 6-12 inches, sometime more since we got several feet last year. I drive with these tires all year round and wouldn't trade them for anything. When they are worn out guess what i'm going to do....buy another set.
11-18-11, 09:10 AM
#67
I have Michelin A/S Plus' and I got 27k mi out of my fronts and 40k out of my rears. They have a 45k mi warranty so Americas Tire Co refunded me back $100 each for the fronts and $25 for the rears. I'm happy, I guess..
11-18-11, 09:15 AM
#68
Then perhaps you ought to point out which facts you disagree with, and provide some evidence countering them?
My information is based on objective comparisons of the 3 tire types in all 3 conditions...and the UTQG info is quoted directly from Tire Rack.
and yet that's one of the facts I presented... odd you agree now...
However if i wanted a track ***** i would have kept my Evo. These tires do more than plennty for spirited daily driving. As far as the rain, they are absolutely amazing in the rain and stop on a dime. I have gotten out of so many sticky situations in the rain with these tires with zero issues. Now for snow they handle good bu not great. They are not Blizzack or Icebears but they are just fine. I live in Chicago where we see some pretty heavy snowfall in the winter months, 6-12 inches, sometime more since we got several feet last year. I drive with these tires all year round and wouldn't trade them for anything. When they are worn out guess what i'm going to do....buy another set.
I'm not sure BS means what you think it means.
BTW-
IIRC someone posted a link to the warranty a while ago... it requires regular tire rotation to be valid... which non-AWD IS drivers general aren't doing.
That's probably worth being aware of if you consider the warranty a selling point
11-18-11, 11:06 AM
#69
Lexus Test Driver
All I can say is that I've had my Continental Extreme Contact DW (summer performance, not DWS) tires for 8000 miles and I couldnt be happier with the performance and price I paid. They are so good in the wet, they probably inspire a bit too much confidence, and they're even better in the dry.
They absorb road imperfections beautifully and the road noise is non existent. ALthough, I cant hear much over my stereo and exhaust!! WIth over 8k miles on em, they look as fresh as they did on day 1. Believe me, I drive my car, with spirit, everyday....and I'm lowered with no camber correction except for what was possible in alignment. These tires should show some missing tread, but they dont. I've had Bridgestone Potenzas that were shot at 13k miles, so I've had both ends here.
Can you buy better tires? Yes
Will you spend 1.5 -2 times as much for nearly identical performance? Yes
I hope Continental never stops making this tire. I'm a customer for life.
They absorb road imperfections beautifully and the road noise is non existent. ALthough, I cant hear much over my stereo and exhaust!! WIth over 8k miles on em, they look as fresh as they did on day 1. Believe me, I drive my car, with spirit, everyday....and I'm lowered with no camber correction except for what was possible in alignment. These tires should show some missing tread, but they dont. I've had Bridgestone Potenzas that were shot at 13k miles, so I've had both ends here.
Can you buy better tires? Yes
Will you spend 1.5 -2 times as much for nearly identical performance? Yes
I hope Continental never stops making this tire. I'm a customer for life.
11-18-11, 11:14 AM
#70
I've not heard anything but good stuff about the DW (the summer performance version)
As to the DWS, as I've said, among all seasons they're the best of the bunch... but that still puts em in 2nd or 3rd place compared to best of the bunch for dedicated seasonal tires in the appropriate seasons.
My own personal experience with the DWS vs. summer tires mirrors this (at least as far as non-snow conditions go- obviously the summers are worthless in snow)
As to the DWS, as I've said, among all seasons they're the best of the bunch... but that still puts em in 2nd or 3rd place compared to best of the bunch for dedicated seasonal tires in the appropriate seasons.
My own personal experience with the DWS vs. summer tires mirrors this (at least as far as non-snow conditions go- obviously the summers are worthless in snow)
11-18-11, 12:02 PM
#71
Lexus Test Driver
yeah, summer tires ARE all season tires down here in Louisiana. I feel so sorry for you folks that live up in that cold weather. Just move down here! The food's better, women more beautiful, and its not miserable during the winter.
11-19-11, 12:38 AM
#72
I run these on my rear wheels, and I have been pretty disappointed with them. They spin WAY too easily with a little bit of gas, and they are GARBAGE in the rain. They are wearing down shockingly quickly, too.
The crappy stock Bridgestone summer tires lasted about as long and performed way better.
... Although it's possible I just got a bad pair or something. Maybe they were old when I got them (I never checked the date... probably should). I see mostly glowing praise for these tires.
The crappy stock Bridgestone summer tires lasted about as long and performed way better.
... Although it's possible I just got a bad pair or something. Maybe they were old when I got them (I never checked the date... probably should). I see mostly glowing praise for these tires.
11-19-11, 12:46 AM
#73
I run these on my rear wheels, and I have been pretty disappointed with them. They spin WAY too easily with a little bit of gas, and they are GARBAGE in the rain. They are wearing down shockingly quickly, too.
The crappy stock Bridgestone summer tires lasted about as long and performed way better.
... Although it's possible I just got a bad pair or something. Maybe they were old when I got them (I never checked the date... probably should). I see mostly glowing praise for these tires.
The crappy stock Bridgestone summer tires lasted about as long and performed way better.
... Although it's possible I just got a bad pair or something. Maybe they were old when I got them (I never checked the date... probably should). I see mostly glowing praise for these tires.
I did not have much problem with the rain, but for snow, I think it was lacking in grip but manageable.
I have the crappy Bridgestones summer stock on the 11 car. It also shows scalloping on the outer edge but doing very well since I had the car alignment done very quickly after I gotten the car.
11-19-11, 06:28 AM
#75
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'Course we do not see much snow down here though..