12-12-14, 04:32 PM
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Almost DIED tonight thanks Ichiba V2 Spacers
11-09-11, 02:32 PM
#76
I wouldn't say Ichiba is low budget, their offices are based out of Cali. And I'm not steering anyone away from spacers in general (except Ichiba V2 bc I almost f'ed my car up), just trying to share a story and warn others to be extra careful if they are using the same spacers. And there are NO guarantees in life.
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Slackful (02-25-20)
11-09-11, 06:12 PM
#82
Out of Warranty
I've not fooled much with rims - over the years seeing the experience of several others, I've been a little queasy about hanging my little pink body on non OEM components that may be of questionable quality. I've spent a good part of my life around metalforming and machining, but that experience I don't trust too much either. Therefore I have a couple of questions for our expert panel here:
- Does insertion of spacers throw the load distribution between inner and outer bearings off - much like it would with incorrect backspacing? If so, do you run the risk of overloading the outer bearings, risking failure of either the bearings or the spindle?
- Similarly, do you put more demands on the studs, considering they are subjected to considerably more load, particularly when working with a non-centric spacer which would not transfer the bulk of those forces directly to the wheel hub, but rely solely on the studs to bear the wheel load? I would think impact loads on those studs would be detrimental to your safety, particularly as discussed, when there may be a question about materials or machining of the spacer.
- What does the spacer do to handling, particularly steering with the extended scrub radius you get with spacers? How necessary is it to bring that figure back to OEM specs with adjustment?
11-09-11, 09:53 PM
#83
I've not fooled much with rims - over the years seeing the experience of several others, I've been a little queasy about hanging my little pink body on non OEM components that may be of questionable quality. I've spent a good part of my life around metalforming and machining, but that experience I don't trust too much either. Therefore I have a couple of questions for our expert panel here:
Bearing failure would take time to occur, even faster with incorrectly spec'd spacers. For example miss matched center bore rings. The load would be greater if the spacer itself does not fit the center hub bore snug and tight, ensuring that the load from the car is firmly supported by both the spacers hub bore and the hub bore itself is the correct way to ensure failure is prevented.
Similarly, do you put more demands on the studs, considering they are subjected to considerably more load, particularly when working with a non-centric spacer which would not transfer the bulk of those forces directly to the wheel hub, but rely solely on the studs to bear the wheel load? I would think impact loads on those studs would be detrimental to your safety, particularly as discussed, when there may be a question about materials or machining of the spacer.
The OEM studs from my understanding have a high tensile strength. Not as superior as ARP racing studs but they can take high load and stress. In a perfect scenario the spacer fits completely snug and tight on the vehicles hub ensuring that the studs are not taking all the stress and weight of the vehicle. It then becomes an even distribution of force on all five studs and the center hub of the vehicle.
The problem then lies on the quality of the spacer, are the spacer nuts strong enough to hold on to the vehicles original studs? Is the spacer strong enough to withstand the high load from a wider scrub radius? It's all in quality and build really. From the perspective I've come across in different automotive boards, the studs are the main section in the spacers that will be in high demand from every action taken by the vehicle. If the tensile strength is not up to par, or the manufacturing process isn't good enough to ensure high stress, then most likely the stud is bound to fail.
From all the research I've done when it comes to spacers there are always correct ways to approach the application. Depending on the needs of the persons vehicle, there are sure steps that can be taken to ensure that the spacer you are using is going to be the right choice.
High end manufacturers such as H&R, Project Kics Motorsport-tech etc, all use properly treated studs with high tensile strength on their pressed stud applications. The route I would take is using a custom made spacer with precise hub and wheel fitment, with the addition of ARP extended racing studs, which have proven to take a beating as far as racing is concerned,
What does the spacer do to handling, particularly steering with the extended scrub radius you get with spacers? How necessary is it to bring that figure back to OEM specs with adjustment?
Ultimately spacers give the vehicle a nicer stance and a wider track. They improve handling by widening the track of the vehicle giving a better feel when cornering or taking hard turns. The same can be felt when using wheels with aggressive offsets on your vehicle. It all comes down to you really. But in closing spacers like anything else in life work beautifully when the right ones are used and also used correctly.
11-14-11, 07:49 AM
#84
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Im not reading all of this but im sure its been said....those are non hub centric junk. Anything on the car should be small enough to retain a hub bore or a built on hub bore to mske the whole set up hub centric. Your lucky it didnt cost you more. Glad to hear it wasnt worse.
11-14-11, 08:42 AM
#85
Im not reading all of this but im sure its been said....those are non hub centric junk. Anything on the car should be small enough to retain a hub bore or a built on hub bore to mske the whole set up hub centric. Your lucky it didnt cost you more. Glad to hear it wasnt worse.
Jeff
11-14-11, 12:16 PM
#86
Let me ask you this, how snug and tight do the spacer rings fit on the cars hub bore? And lastly how snug and tight do the hub rings fit on the spacer ring and the wheel bore. Any play even if by a few thousands of an inch can cause the spacer studs to bare all the weight and fail.
01-03-12, 04:33 PM
#89
Tech Info Resource
iTrader: (2)
Does insertion of spacers throw the load distribution between inner and outer bearings off - much like it would with incorrect backspacing? If so, do you run the risk of overloading the outer bearings, risking failure of either the bearings or the spindle?
Bearing failure would take time to occur, even faster with incorrectly spec'd spacers. For example miss matched center bore rings. The load would be greater if the spacer itself does not fit the center hub bore snug and tight, ensuring that the load from the car is firmly supported by both the spacers hub bore and the hub bore itself is the correct way to ensure failure is prevented.
Similarly, do you put more demands on the studs, considering they are subjected to considerably more load, particularly when working with a non-centric spacer which would not transfer the bulk of those forces directly to the wheel hub, but rely solely on the studs to bear the wheel load? I would think impact loads on those studs would be detrimental to your safety, particularly as discussed, when there may be a question about materials or machining of the spacer.
The OEM studs from my understanding have a high tensile strength. Not as superior as ARP racing studs but they can take high load and stress. In a perfect scenario the spacer fits completely snug and tight on the vehicles hub ensuring that the studs are not taking all the stress and weight of the vehicle. It then becomes an even distribution of force on all five studs and the center hub of the vehicle.
The problem then lies on the quality of the spacer, are the spacer nuts strong enough to hold on to the vehicles original studs? Is the spacer strong enough to withstand the high load from a wider scrub radius? It's all in quality and build really. From the perspective I've come across in different automotive boards, the studs are the main section in the spacers that will be in high demand from every action taken by the vehicle. If the tensile strength is not up to par, or the manufacturing process isn't good enough to ensure high stress, then most likely the stud is bound to fail.
From all the research I've done when it comes to spacers there are always correct ways to approach the application. Depending on the needs of the persons vehicle, there are sure steps that can be taken to ensure that the spacer you are using is going to be the right choice.
High end manufacturers such as H&R, Project Kics Motorsport-tech etc, all use properly treated studs with high tensile strength on their pressed stud applications. The route I would take is using a custom made spacer with precise hub and wheel fitment, with the addition of ARP extended racing studs, which have proven to take a beating as far as racing is concerned,
What does the spacer do to handling, particularly steering with the extended scrub radius you get with spacers? How necessary is it to bring that figure back to OEM specs with adjustment?
Ultimately spacers give the vehicle a nicer stance and a wider track. They improve handling by widening the track of the vehicle giving a better feel when cornering or taking hard turns. The same can be felt when using wheels with aggressive offsets on your vehicle. It all comes down to you really. But in closing spacers like anything else in life work beautifully when the right ones are used and also used correctly.
Bearing failure would take time to occur, even faster with incorrectly spec'd spacers. For example miss matched center bore rings. The load would be greater if the spacer itself does not fit the center hub bore snug and tight, ensuring that the load from the car is firmly supported by both the spacers hub bore and the hub bore itself is the correct way to ensure failure is prevented.
Similarly, do you put more demands on the studs, considering they are subjected to considerably more load, particularly when working with a non-centric spacer which would not transfer the bulk of those forces directly to the wheel hub, but rely solely on the studs to bear the wheel load? I would think impact loads on those studs would be detrimental to your safety, particularly as discussed, when there may be a question about materials or machining of the spacer.
The OEM studs from my understanding have a high tensile strength. Not as superior as ARP racing studs but they can take high load and stress. In a perfect scenario the spacer fits completely snug and tight on the vehicles hub ensuring that the studs are not taking all the stress and weight of the vehicle. It then becomes an even distribution of force on all five studs and the center hub of the vehicle.
The problem then lies on the quality of the spacer, are the spacer nuts strong enough to hold on to the vehicles original studs? Is the spacer strong enough to withstand the high load from a wider scrub radius? It's all in quality and build really. From the perspective I've come across in different automotive boards, the studs are the main section in the spacers that will be in high demand from every action taken by the vehicle. If the tensile strength is not up to par, or the manufacturing process isn't good enough to ensure high stress, then most likely the stud is bound to fail.
From all the research I've done when it comes to spacers there are always correct ways to approach the application. Depending on the needs of the persons vehicle, there are sure steps that can be taken to ensure that the spacer you are using is going to be the right choice.
High end manufacturers such as H&R, Project Kics Motorsport-tech etc, all use properly treated studs with high tensile strength on their pressed stud applications. The route I would take is using a custom made spacer with precise hub and wheel fitment, with the addition of ARP extended racing studs, which have proven to take a beating as far as racing is concerned,
What does the spacer do to handling, particularly steering with the extended scrub radius you get with spacers? How necessary is it to bring that figure back to OEM specs with adjustment?
Ultimately spacers give the vehicle a nicer stance and a wider track. They improve handling by widening the track of the vehicle giving a better feel when cornering or taking hard turns. The same can be felt when using wheels with aggressive offsets on your vehicle. It all comes down to you really. But in closing spacers like anything else in life work beautifully when the right ones are used and also used correctly.
Premature bearing failure is a serious issue with spacers or incorrect offsets. Stance != long bearing life, ever.
Wider track with improper scrub radius does not often make a better handling machine. Moving the center of the contact patch relative to the wheel bearings also changes most of the rest of the geometry the suspension engineer sweated over to make the car stable and predictable. Just changing ride height usually makes the car slower around a track unless you've done your homework and calculated roll centers, instant centers, roll couple and roll axis. I have yet to hear anyone on this board talk about actually measurably improving handling especially when we're talking springs, coils, and spacers. Claiming there's an improvement without actually measuring is like saying I just spent $1k on an exhaust and man does my car feel faster. Then you take it to the dyno, and you refuse to believe the truth - it's only louder.
The only reason I would put a spacer on a car is to correct a bad wheel offset and restore the wheel's centerline to the design position where the suspension and bearings are expecting it to be. Arbitrarily moving the wheel because you want to change the look of the car has a price and brings risk. There is no amount of checking wheel torque that will prevent stud failures if the basic design is bad.
01-03-12, 08:00 PM
#90
^^^^Lance - You said it so much better than I could. A BIG 
to you. What you're saying is a big reason I stay away from third party wheels with crazy offsets, and why I kept my stock BBS wheels when I went to wider tires on my F. On my last car, a G35 Coupe, I went with wider wheels, but stayed with Nismo branded ones, forged and made by Rays to OEM specs. For my F, I would love to get the wider 2012 wheels, but feel they would be out of my price range. My 245/285 tire combo fits the stock wheels well and is really close to the stock OD. I know we disagree on my tire size and choice, but we do agree on so many other things. And, I really appreciate the wealth of knowledge you share with us.
Lou
to you. What you're saying is a big reason I stay away from third party wheels with crazy offsets, and why I kept my stock BBS wheels when I went to wider tires on my F. On my last car, a G35 Coupe, I went with wider wheels, but stayed with Nismo branded ones, forged and made by Rays to OEM specs. For my F, I would love to get the wider 2012 wheels, but feel they would be out of my price range. My 245/285 tire combo fits the stock wheels well and is really close to the stock OD. I know we disagree on my tire size and choice, but we do agree on so many other things. And, I really appreciate the wealth of knowledge you share with us.Lou