Dealership lied!
02-12-12, 10:34 PM
#1
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Dealership lied!
So. I just had my car replaced after a accident (I hit a pig on a rural road)...anyways, after the car was repaired by a Toyota certified and dealership recommended collision center, they told me that my car had been repaired before. WHAT?! They said that the car has head a fender, bumper, headlight, and windshield replaced. And the painted areas, the paint is being peeled (poor paint job) and the windshield molding is tearing and the windshield isn't even a Lexus brand (idk how i missed that)?
I remember when buying the car CPO they said the car was never damaged and even showed me the history. Now i know that i was lied too? I bought the car with 30K and now it has about 60K on it, with about 2 years of use after i bought it.
What should I do? I don't wanna barge in to the dealership not knowing what to do and without any MAJOR proof besides my car and what the adviser at the body shop told me?
It's a 2007 IS250 Tungsten Pearl. Purchased from Sterling McCall Lexus in Houston, TX
I remember when buying the car CPO they said the car was never damaged and even showed me the history. Now i know that i was lied too? I bought the car with 30K and now it has about 60K on it, with about 2 years of use after i bought it.
What should I do? I don't wanna barge in to the dealership not knowing what to do and without any MAJOR proof besides my car and what the adviser at the body shop told me?
It's a 2007 IS250 Tungsten Pearl. Purchased from Sterling McCall Lexus in Houston, TX
02-12-12, 10:44 PM
#3
Lexus Test Driver
Tough situation for sure and sucks to learn that. But I'd say if you've driven it for 30k miles and never noticed anything wrong until now, it's probably not that bad. You don't have much of a choice other than returning to the dealership and showing them what the Toyota workers found. Maybe you can get a free extended warranty out of your displeasure.
02-12-12, 10:45 PM
#4
I would write to the GM/President of the dealership and possibly prepare to get in contact with general attoney's office, Lexus corporate and possibly a laywer.
More like the issue with the 08, where it had undocumented damage and was being sold at a Lexus dealership as CPO. The dealership did not know it had been in an accident either. I did exactly that and they took the car back.
If it were Canada, the government overseas the dealerships, and if the dealership messes up like this, the dealership eats it therefore, practically never happens because this is enforced. In US, the government doesn't really check.
Thread about my incident.
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/is-...certified.html
More like the issue with the 08, where it had undocumented damage and was being sold at a Lexus dealership as CPO. The dealership did not know it had been in an accident either. I did exactly that and they took the car back.
If it were Canada, the government overseas the dealerships, and if the dealership messes up like this, the dealership eats it therefore, practically never happens because this is enforced. In US, the government doesn't really check.
Thread about my incident.
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/is-...certified.html
02-12-12, 10:49 PM
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To answer the first question, I have the paperwork when i bought the car, but i had no knowledge of the car even being repaired before, and the paperwork doesn't have any mentioned work.
Second question, what should i do first? Go talk to a manager at the dealer? I don't want to give the car back i just want the car to have all genuine parts and have a proper repair work done. I'm not really looking to sue or anything like that, but if it comes down to it i might look into it.
I'm already dealing with Lexus and the Dealership with a cabin creaking noise that they can't seem to repair, which if i think about it might be caused by the prior damages, but i don't know for sure.
Btw, thanks for both of you guys' help! ...and anyone elses in the future, much appreciated!
Second question, what should i do first? Go talk to a manager at the dealer? I don't want to give the car back i just want the car to have all genuine parts and have a proper repair work done. I'm not really looking to sue or anything like that, but if it comes down to it i might look into it.
I'm already dealing with Lexus and the Dealership with a cabin creaking noise that they can't seem to repair, which if i think about it might be caused by the prior damages, but i don't know for sure.
Btw, thanks for both of you guys' help! ...and anyone elses in the future, much appreciated!
02-12-12, 10:53 PM
#6
Bascially you have is undocumented damage; therefore the vehicle should not have been CPO because it had been in a prior accident. As per CPO, the vehicle cannot be in any accidents.
I would talk to the sales manager first and if that does not work, go to the general manager and higher up from there. They may try to push the "AS-IS" if you signed anything like that; that is not valid if it was never documented or disclosed.
Sounds like the case, where the original owner crashed the car, got some repair job under the table and not reported, then sold it at the dealership....
Also could be, the dealership bought a bunch of cars off a lot to be CPO but failed to inspect carefully. As mentioned in my previous post; this does not happen in Canada.
I would talk to the sales manager first and if that does not work, go to the general manager and higher up from there. They may try to push the "AS-IS" if you signed anything like that; that is not valid if it was never documented or disclosed.
Sounds like the case, where the original owner crashed the car, got some repair job under the table and not reported, then sold it at the dealership....
Also could be, the dealership bought a bunch of cars off a lot to be CPO but failed to inspect carefully. As mentioned in my previous post; this does not happen in Canada.
02-12-12, 11:07 PM
#7
If someone repair it and doesn't report it really can't blame the dealer. If there no frame damage they can't tell. As far as the window go not everyone replace with oem. It's what every they can afford from insurance. Most people don't care as long as they don't pay extra. Window molding I beleave is an issue most CL member have had them crack and some dealer will relace under factory warranty. But you can ask them nicely to see what they can do. Walking in gun hoe will get you no where the next time you need something done.
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02-12-12, 11:08 PM
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My question is, it's been almost two years since the car has been sold to me and 30,000 miles later, will they do anything because the car is so old?
And yea, i plan on keeping my cool, but yet stay firm. I plan to keep the car for a while, and the paint peeling seems to expnsice repairs, and who knows what else has been painted that i can;t even tell.
And yea, i plan on keeping my cool, but yet stay firm. I plan to keep the car for a while, and the paint peeling seems to expnsice repairs, and who knows what else has been painted that i can;t even tell.
02-12-12, 11:12 PM
#10
Would need to differ because the dealership has a checklist for the inspection for CPO. So whoever signed off on it did not do their job properly.
As for my case when I was having issues; I brought to auto body shop for inspection since the selling dealership pushed me back saying it was ok for the car to be repainted on one side... Within less than a few seconds, the adjuster already notice a color miss-match on the car then found all the other stuff wrong with it when looking.
As for my case when I was having issues; I brought to auto body shop for inspection since the selling dealership pushed me back saying it was ok for the car to be repainted on one side... Within less than a few seconds, the adjuster already notice a color miss-match on the car then found all the other stuff wrong with it when looking.
02-12-12, 11:12 PM
#11
Its your responsibility as a car buyer to make sure the car hasn't been in an accident. Carfax doesn't show crap half the time.
You should know that if the accident wasn't reported to Carfax or Autocheck and replacement parts weren't obviously replacement parts, Lexus will still CPO the car. Only if there's an accident on the Carfax report will they not CPO it, but if its not reported and its not apparent, it will CPO'd. And for some repairs, even though its obvious, it won't stop a car from being CPO'd (i.e. replacement glass) because it doesn't necessarily mean the car has been in a wreck.
As a car buyer, you carry the ultimate responsibility to make sure what you are buying hasn't been in any sort of accident or anything beyond what Carfax says. Its likely the dealership didn't lie to you, and they just didn't know the parts had been replaced. Of course its apparent to you now that time has passed and the inferior parts are showing themselves, but i'm sure it was hard to tell before - otherwise i'm sure you would have noticed earlier too.
It's always a good idea to have any car you buy professionally inspected. You probably would have found out earlier that replacement parts were used.
You should know that if the accident wasn't reported to Carfax or Autocheck and replacement parts weren't obviously replacement parts, Lexus will still CPO the car. Only if there's an accident on the Carfax report will they not CPO it, but if its not reported and its not apparent, it will CPO'd. And for some repairs, even though its obvious, it won't stop a car from being CPO'd (i.e. replacement glass) because it doesn't necessarily mean the car has been in a wreck.
As a car buyer, you carry the ultimate responsibility to make sure what you are buying hasn't been in any sort of accident or anything beyond what Carfax says. Its likely the dealership didn't lie to you, and they just didn't know the parts had been replaced. Of course its apparent to you now that time has passed and the inferior parts are showing themselves, but i'm sure it was hard to tell before - otherwise i'm sure you would have noticed earlier too.
It's always a good idea to have any car you buy professionally inspected. You probably would have found out earlier that replacement parts were used.
02-12-12, 11:19 PM
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I think i'll do that first. I'll go to the body shop and have the guy right down the damaged parts that have been repaired, then i'll take it to the dealer. If that fails, i'll take it to corporate, they get things done (usually) if that fails, then DA's office, and on and on.
If this is a CPO car and it has been repaired, i wouldn't have minded if the repair was told to me and i know it has lifetime coverage. But now I don;t even know that the car was repaired so i don;t know who to blame.
If this is a CPO car and it has been repaired, i wouldn't have minded if the repair was told to me and i know it has lifetime coverage. But now I don;t even know that the car was repaired so i don;t know who to blame.
02-12-12, 11:20 PM
#13
Would need to differ because the dealership has a checklist for the inspection for CPO. So whoever signed off on it did not do their job properly.
As for my case when I was having issues; I brought to auto body shop for inspection since the selling dealership pushed me back saying it was ok for the car to be repainted on one side... Within less than a few seconds, the adjuster already notice a color miss-match on the car then found all the other stuff wrong with it when looking.
As for my case when I was having issues; I brought to auto body shop for inspection since the selling dealership pushed me back saying it was ok for the car to be repainted on one side... Within less than a few seconds, the adjuster already notice a color miss-match on the car then found all the other stuff wrong with it when looking.
Take a look at the Lexus CPO checklist yourself:
http://www.lexus.com/cpo/pdf/CPO_161_Checklist.pdf
There's not much beyond visual checks on there for the body. Mainly checking panel fitment, paint chips and any damage that may be existing. Crappy replacement parts don't always look off at first, its with age that you begin to tell a sub par job was done.
I think i'll do that first. I'll go to the body shop and have the guy right down the damaged parts that have been repaired, then i'll take it to the dealer. If that fails, i'll take it to corporate, they get things done (usually) if that fails, then DA's office, and on and on.
If this is a CPO car and it has been repaired, i wouldn't have minded if the repair was told to me and i know it has lifetime coverage. But now I don;t even know that the car was repaired so i don;t know who to blame.
If this is a CPO car and it has been repaired, i wouldn't have minded if the repair was told to me and i know it has lifetime coverage. But now I don;t even know that the car was repaired so i don;t know who to blame.
It's also, unfortunately, your fault for not having the car properly inspected. I know you don't want to hear that - it sucks, but its true.
Unless the dealership repaired the damage and didn't disclose this to you, I don't see how you'll really get anywhere with this, unless the dealership or corporate does something for you out of goodwill to keep you happy.
Last edited by KillaIS250; 02-12-12 at 11:28 PM.
02-13-12, 12:06 AM
#14
It probably wasn't apparent during inspection that the parts were replacement parts.
Take a look at the Lexus CPO checklist yourself:
http://www.lexus.com/cpo/pdf/CPO_161_Checklist.pdf
There's not much beyond visual checks on there for the body. Mainly checking panel fitment, paint chips and any damage that may be existing. Crappy replacement parts don't always look off at first, its with age that you begin to tell a sub par job was done.
Take a look at the Lexus CPO checklist yourself:
http://www.lexus.com/cpo/pdf/CPO_161_Checklist.pdf
There's not much beyond visual checks on there for the body. Mainly checking panel fitment, paint chips and any damage that may be existing. Crappy replacement parts don't always look off at first, its with age that you begin to tell a sub par job was done.
As for my case, the paint miss-match, overspray on the inner door frame were flags, and the underbody damage.
It was the servicing dealership that help find my suspicion because they saw the overspray and then got a paint gauge to find out one whole side of the car had been repainted. Later on after going back and forth with the selling dealership that I had the autobody look at it.
Didn't take long to find bondo on the rear quarter panel to find out it had been side swipped. Also underbody damage due to improper toeing.
Bascially the selling dealership would of been able to find this out even the underbody damage if they just looked at it with mirror to view underneath or someone put it on the lift because something were crushed, damaaged or screws and grommets missing. A proper inspection I should say would of caught this.
Last edited by Sango; 02-13-12 at 12:50 AM.
02-13-12, 12:34 AM
#15
^ Maybe in your case the dealership hid the damage for you or just didn't do the inspection correctly. But that's something between you and the dealership you bought the dealership from.....i'm sure not all dealerships conduct business at the level they are required too.
What i'm basically saying is that when you buying a CPO, you are not guaranteed that you are getting a car that hasn't been in an accident. CPO inspection calls for rejection if there is any frame damage discovered or any damage that would render the car unfit for selling/certification. This is mostly done via Carfax and then visual inspection.
In the OP's case, the fender, bumper, headlight and windshield were replaced. Fender and bumper probably looked okay when purchased, and depending on the color of the car, probably wasn't as apparent in terms of color difference. And even if it was, it doesn't disqualify it from being sold as CPO, it would just need to be disclosed at sale or reconditioned if necessary. The headlight and windshield replacement wouldn't disqualify the car from being a CPO either, so as long as the headlights worked correctly and the windshield wasn't damaged, it would have passed the Lexus CPO inspection too.
Bottom line: CPO inspection doesn't mean your buying a car that has never been in an accident. Paint and other things aren't even covered under the CPO warranty. It's great for making sure you don't run into costly issues with most of the interior and mechanical parts, but it doesn't help you for body damage. For that, a professional inspection of the body should be done.
What i'm basically saying is that when you buying a CPO, you are not guaranteed that you are getting a car that hasn't been in an accident. CPO inspection calls for rejection if there is any frame damage discovered or any damage that would render the car unfit for selling/certification. This is mostly done via Carfax and then visual inspection.
In the OP's case, the fender, bumper, headlight and windshield were replaced. Fender and bumper probably looked okay when purchased, and depending on the color of the car, probably wasn't as apparent in terms of color difference. And even if it was, it doesn't disqualify it from being sold as CPO, it would just need to be disclosed at sale or reconditioned if necessary. The headlight and windshield replacement wouldn't disqualify the car from being a CPO either, so as long as the headlights worked correctly and the windshield wasn't damaged, it would have passed the Lexus CPO inspection too.
Bottom line: CPO inspection doesn't mean your buying a car that has never been in an accident. Paint and other things aren't even covered under the CPO warranty. It's great for making sure you don't run into costly issues with most of the interior and mechanical parts, but it doesn't help you for body damage. For that, a professional inspection of the body should be done.