Random misfire
#1
Driver School Candidate
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I got a VSC code a few times & I took it to the dealer.
They said it was a random misfire on # 3. Since the warranty is out now .Hey want $600 cda to do a top end cleaning. Change the plugs, change the oil, add something to each cylinders, then change the oil again.
The car has 76000 km (2006)
The car runs fine , so I was thinking about just doing the plugs.
What do you guy think?
They said it was a random misfire on # 3. Since the warranty is out now .Hey want $600 cda to do a top end cleaning. Change the plugs, change the oil, add something to each cylinders, then change the oil again.
The car has 76000 km (2006)
The car runs fine , so I was thinking about just doing the plugs.
What do you guy think?
#3
Lexus Test Driver
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If it's only misfiring on cylinder #3, your problem area would be the ignition coil, fuel injector itself and the signal to the injector, last would be compression. Also check the spark plug if it's in good condition. Try swapping coils if anything changes. If both are good then your problem would be fuel injector, then compression.
#5
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If it's only misfiring on cylinder #3, your problem area would be the ignition coil, fuel injector itself and the signal to the injector, last would be compression. Also check the spark plug if it's in good condition. Try swapping coils if anything changes. If both are good then your problem would be fuel injector, then compression.
You're going to need to pull the intake manifold to swap coils around to diag the #3 coil anyway, so while you're at that take a flashlight and look down onto the back of the intake valves. I bet they look like *** covered in black barnacles. If so, and the misfire doesn't follow the coil, you've got a carbon buildup issue.
Another (far less precise) way of diagnosing a carbon deposit issues on the 250 is as follows: drive around at high RPM (5k+) for a few minutes, on and off heavy load and WOT. Come to a stop, idle a bit, and then give the throttle some small blips. Car shaky when it returns to idle? You've got carbon breaking off and holding the intake valve open, causing a partial misfire.
Lexus has a TSB for the 2006 250 replacing the valve springs with stronger units (they blast through the carbon better). I've had success with the top engine clean that the dealer recommended as well. A more recent TSB has the dealer re-ringing the pistons to deal with persistent, severe misfires caused by the carbon breaking off and damaging the compression rings. This is diagnosed with a boroscope and a compression test. It is also extremely extremely rare and usually coincides with horrible maintenance.
Also, welcome to owning a direct injection car. All manufacturers are having this carbon issue.
tl;dr - do the top engine clean
#7
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I'm baffled as to why they would want to do a top end clean then.
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#10
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You've got carbon breaking off and holding the intake valve open, causing a partial misfire.
Lexus has a TSB for the 2006 250 replacing the valve springs with stronger units (they blast through the carbon better). I've had success with the top engine clean that the dealer recommended as well. A more recent TSB has the dealer re-ringing the pistons to deal with persistent, severe misfires caused by the carbon breaking off and damaging the compression rings. This is diagnosed with a boroscope and a compression test. It is also extremely extremely rare and usually coincides with horrible maintenance.
Lexus has a TSB for the 2006 250 replacing the valve springs with stronger units (they blast through the carbon better). I've had success with the top engine clean that the dealer recommended as well. A more recent TSB has the dealer re-ringing the pistons to deal with persistent, severe misfires caused by the carbon breaking off and damaging the compression rings. This is diagnosed with a boroscope and a compression test. It is also extremely extremely rare and usually coincides with horrible maintenance.
Does that mean that there still is no remedy for the buildup in the first place? The fact that the engine is being destroyed internally by the carbon is alarming to me.
![Frown](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/smilies/frown.gif)
How big are these carbon chunks that get lodged between the head and the intake valve?
#12
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RandomTech -- (I assume by the username, you work for Lexus?) So what you are saying, is that the piston ring TSB is not a preventative treatment for carbon buildup which prevents it from reoccuring in the engine. The TSB is to replace compression rings damaged by chunks of carbon.
Does that mean that there still is no remedy for the buildup in the first place? The fact that the engine is being destroyed internally by the carbon is alarming to me.![Frown](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/smilies/frown.gif)
How big are these carbon chunks that get lodged between the head and the intake valve?
Does that mean that there still is no remedy for the buildup in the first place? The fact that the engine is being destroyed internally by the carbon is alarming to me.
![Frown](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/smilies/frown.gif)
How big are these carbon chunks that get lodged between the head and the intake valve?
The bits of carbon are big enough to hold open valves, yet fit between the piston and cylinder walls.
You can help prevent carbon deposits by regularly changing your oil, using synthetic, and running a fuel induction cleaner every 30k miles.
#14
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Sometimes it takes two top engine cleans (and a lot of soaking of the intake valves) and a few hundred miles of driving to push all the carbon barnacles out the back end. Even then, if the misfires persist, it's more likely the valve seats are damaged over the rings. Diagnosing with a leakdown/compression test is required before a good tech will condemn the rings or what-have-you.
Unless it's a warrantee job. Then they'll just put a new everything in for you per the TSB to make sure it is fixed.
#15
Driver School Candidate
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warranty wont cover it because it has more that 70k, but there is a tsb for the top engine cleaning for that car. if it falls within a certain vin range the dealer will put new pistons in it (another tsb) call the dealer and see if it qualifies.