accelerating by itself ?
05-24-12, 01:01 PM
#46
Your next step is then disputing the denial which entails initiating arbitration. This step is neither easy nor costless, and in the vast majority of cases, it would be far more advisable to accept the dealer's decision than go through the process of finding and paying a lawyer to guide you through the arbitration process. Furthermore, it's been well-documented that customers are almost always at a disadvantage in arbitration vs. court for numerous reasons, which is the exact reason almost every company writes an arbitration clause into their contracts.
So I was trying to point out that in the real world, this whole business of claiming Magnuson-Moss and crying out "sue them!" isn't as easy as it may appear on the forums. If a dealer truly is screwing with you or being dishonest, I agree that in most cases they'll back down when you threaten to call Lexus / bring up the warranty act / threaten to call the FTC.
You're absolutely right though that the language of the act does compel dealers to show that the aftermarket modification caused the issue, and I edited my last post to take out that statement so as not to state anything incorrect. However, I doubt a dealership would go to the expense and effort to prove this in a forensic way without your taking next steps like formally disputing the claim with the FTC or initiating arbitration, which in the real-world would be costly and complicated enough to likely be less attractive than just eating the repair.
I'd love to hear personal or anecdotal experiences with something like this, if anyone has them. Specifically, I'm interested in what level of proof the dealership is expected to provide to justify their denial of a warranty claim. Because short of actually filming someone damage something in the process of installing an aftermarket part, there's always going to be uncertainty. Say you install an aftermarket intake and your MAF sensor fails immediately afterwards. How do they prove it was the intake? Couldn't the MAF sensor have just failed coincidentally at the same time?
Last edited by calvin2376; 05-24-12 at 01:12 PM.
05-24-12, 01:09 PM
#47
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Uh, he has an F-sport filter. No oil.
Couple things here-
1) The MM Act allows arbitration before court. But it requires that arbitration meet a number of requirements. One of which is:
Regarding the dealer denying the claim- they actually do have to prove the part caused it. Here's the text of the law on this:
Bold added.
They can't just tell you the part caused the problem (legally anyway) they are required to demonstrate that fact... if they refuse, and calling corporate gets you no where, my next call would be the federal trade commission, which enforces compliance of this law.
All that said, in the few times I've had this argument with a dealership, I've never had to go beyond informing them of the law, and that I was aware of it, and they generally shut up pretty quickly about denying anything at that point.
The "void your warranty" crap is usually a scare tactic to be used against those ignorant of the actual laws.
Couple things here-
1) The MM Act allows arbitration before court. But it requires that arbitration meet a number of requirements. One of which is:
Regarding the dealer denying the claim- they actually do have to prove the part caused it. Here's the text of the law on this:
Bold added.
They can't just tell you the part caused the problem (legally anyway) they are required to demonstrate that fact... if they refuse, and calling corporate gets you no where, my next call would be the federal trade commission, which enforces compliance of this law.
All that said, in the few times I've had this argument with a dealership, I've never had to go beyond informing them of the law, and that I was aware of it, and they generally shut up pretty quickly about denying anything at that point.
The "void your warranty" crap is usually a scare tactic to be used against those ignorant of the actual laws.
i learn something new everyday with this lexus f sport thing. so you mean this filter has no oil, isnt it a k&N filter. i need to read up so more on lexus,lol.
05-24-12, 01:31 PM
#48
The key here is "legally". I'm trying to point out a more realistic scenario of what would happen in a hypothetical situation like this, where a dealer refuses a warranty claim and stands his or her ground despite a customer's protest.
Your next step is then disputing the denial which entails initiating arbitration. This step is neither easy nor costless
Your next step is then disputing the denial which entails initiating arbitration. This step is neither easy nor costless
It's entirely costless to the consumer.
In fact that's one of the requirements of the law, that it be free to the customer.
So I was trying to point out that in the real world, this whole business of claiming Magnuson-Moss and crying out "sue them!" isn't as easy as it may appear on the forums. If a dealer truly is screwing with you or being dishonest, I agree that in most cases they'll back down when you threaten to call Lexus / bring up the warranty act / threaten to call the FTC.
I'd love to hear personal or anecdotal experiences with something like this, if anyone has them. Specifically, I'm interested in what level of proof the dealership is expected to provide to justify their denial of a warranty claim. Because short of actually filming someone damage something in the process of installing an aftermarket part, there's always going to be uncertainty. Say you install an aftermarket intake and your MAF sensor fails immediately afterwards. How do they prove it was the intake? Couldn't the MAF sensor have just failed coincidentally at the same time?
In the case of something like a Joe Z or F-sport, it can't cause such a failure... (assuming you didn't physically damage the thing installing it, in which case they just show a physically broken connector).
For an oiled filter if they want to claim over-oiling did it then photos of the caked-over-with-oil MAF would probably be what they'd go with.
05-24-12, 06:32 PM
#49
calm down guys.like i said i dont want deal with the dealer as they will give me headache because i mod my car.I will sold my joe z and looking for f sport intake.All i need how can i fix my drl now?i check all the fuse box under hood.it look all okay.i put back oem bulb and i still did not work.what should i check now?
05-25-12, 03:52 AM
#50
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calm down guys.like i said i dont want deal with the dealer as they will give me headache because i mod my car.I will sold my joe z and looking for f sport intake.All i need how can i fix my drl now?i check all the fuse box under hood.it look all okay.i put back oem bulb and i still did not work.what should i check now?
05-29-12, 04:15 AM
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because i dont think its a main power fuse such as a 20-30 amp fuse. seems like an accesory fuse which are 7.5 amps. also make sure you didnt melt the harness, check and see if theres power before the light. is everything else working properly?
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