diagtime

ARE YOU SAYING YOU TURNED THE WHEEL AND THE CAR DID NOT TURN????? If so, you sure as hell won't win any legal case. There is a large misconception about how electric power steering works. Even if the electric part fails, the steering wheel is still connected to the rack by a torsion bar. EPS DOES NOT MEAN THE WHEELS ARE DISCONNECTED FROM STEERING WHEEL. (with the exception of VGRS which is not available on IS), your steering rack is ALWAYS connected to your wheel. EPS failure can cause heavy steering and some other funny traits, but if you turn the steering wheel, the front wheels WILL ALWAYS TURN.

unless i read the complaint wrong......unless he DID NOT complain that he turned the steering wheel and the front wheels didn't turn.....then i agree that a moderator should intervene.

diagtime

Power steering codes are stored in EPS ecu. That's different from the "black box" mentioned earlier. Which isn't black by the way. or something separate. It's in another ECU that's not easy to get to and the event recorder definitely would have picked up the accident.

You can't access the event recorder, even your dealership can't access the info. Lexus won't look at it. An independent company reads and interprets the information. They will be able to look at basic stuff such as speed, throttle, and braking. they will also be able to see steering angle (where the steering wheel is), both Power steering torque sensor readings, power given to the electric rack, etc..... The event recorder will show exactly what the driver was doing and exactly how the vehicle responded. Included will be the lateral g-force reading and yaw rate sensor reading. The g-force sensors are what trigger an event recording to begin with.

My guess is the event recorder already has been accessed and analyzed on your vehicle. You would be amazed at how much data is actually recorded. Leaves no question as to what happened to cause an event. Unfortunately that's not allowed. Has to be an independent company.

lobuxracer

iTrader: (2)

Absolutely not true. EDR data is available to the manufacturers, that's why they put them in the car - to gather objective crash data and improve car designs. Besides, there was a guy sent to prison for vehicular manslaughter in Florida based on EDR data. Can't access it? Try this for Suzuki http://www.oemparts4cars.com/proddet...9565-02100-33E.

RandomTech

This is right, but only corporate-dispatched experts can get at the info. They don't tell the techs, dealers, field tech specialists, or warranty people where it is nor give them the tools to analyze it. They quarantine the cars in addition to accessing the info to prevent the customer monkeying with the car.

In regards to the OPs description of the issue...I don't think the symptoms s/he is describing are possible as a result of the steering failing. None of the cited issues are comparable, either, and the steering rack recall on early IS only resulted in a failure of power steering - the car still turned.

lobuxracer

iTrader: (2)

I think I covered that earlier in the thread.

diagtime

No kidding. But when a vehicle manufacturer is accused of causing an accident, an independent party is sent to gather and interpret the information. The same independent company is used for this same scenario by many (if not all) manufacturers. Nearly 100% of time (with all manufacturers) the independent company finds the event to be the fault of the driver. Usually the manufacturer then sends a very kindly worded FU letter to the driver. That's assuming the accident was minor or there was no accident at all. Situations involving a death or injury will certainly involve more than a letter (like the suzuki case quoted). IF and i mean IF....the fault is found to be with the manufacturer, the manufacturer will then review EDR data to assess and fix vehicle faults. extremely rare case.

and last thing i wish to say about this case. The OP had an accident that could "possibly" have been described as "weird **** happens". nearly impossible, but with suspension modifications made...... at least has to be considered physically possible.

But impossible **** does not happen. what was described be the OP before the accident....turning the wheel enough to make a 90 DEGREE TURN....AND THE CAR WENT STRAIGHT..... AND THEN THE CONDITION CORRECTED ITSELF.....THAT'S IMPOSSIBLE. anyone that had the slightest clue of how the EPS system on the IS worked would know that. OOPS.

lobuxracer

iTrader: (2)

Still not true. i can buy the complete kit to download EDR data today, right now.

http://www.cdr-system.com/resources/current.html

It's just a matter of money. You guys are getting wrapped around the axle over an accident and the legal issues resulting from the accident. EDR data is not sacred, and is in fact, owned by the car owner, not the manufacturer after a long drawn out legal battle a few years ago.

I don't doubt the OP had some kind of issue. I know it has nothing to do with EPS because the car is still capable of reacting to driver input without any electrical power applied. Anyone can test this in their own garage by simply shutting off the car and turning the wheel before opening the driver's door (and setting the steering lock).

At this point - WHAT went wrong is entirely speculation because the only input we have is from the driver, and it sounds like classic understeer from sand or oil on the road, not a steering system failure. We have no way of knowing many of the essential details to know if there was any kind of mechanical failure or if it was entirely driver error and road conditions.

It also sounds like the OP has decided to take the insurance settlement and never buy another Lexus.

diagtime

Fair enough. You are correct. But I can promise you that car manufacturers would rather some people not buy their cars. Just like insurance companies refuse to insure some people and some dealerships will refuse to service some people's cars. It's a tiny tiny percentage of people, but Lexus will not miss those 1 in 10,000 bad customers.

Toymota

What if it was a broken or extremely loose tie rod end on one side only? Obviously it's a very very bad idea to drive under such conditions, so I guess no one will really know or have any experience what it is like. So let's just discuss it theoretically. I'm thinking there might be enough control on the side with the good tie rod to steer the car at slow speeds and the caster in the alignment will make the side with the bad tie rod follow in the right direction. But maybe at higher speeds when the weight is on the side with the bad tie rod, it will not respond correctly to steering input, and possibly move a few degrees off from the other wheel, or enough to affect the direction of the car.

The OP did say he turned the wheel for a 90 degree turn and the car went straight, and then another time, causing the accident. He also specified that the car was lowered on TEIN coilovers. Perhaps this could have caused additional strain on the tie rod ball joint due to the angle, causing it to fail? Also, the accident probably completely broke the tie rod end, which may leave no evidence that it was malfunctioning before the accident.

lobuxracer

iTrader: (2)

Failure on ball joints like tie rod ends is statistically zero. If there were a tie rod issue, there would be vibration in the steering even at walking speeds, or there would be so much slop in the steering wheel it would be obvious something was wrong.

I grew up driving farm implements. I know what loose steering feels like as does anyone who has driven a 40 year old tractor and tried to maintain a straight line. I'm quite certain the OP would have noticed this had there been a joint failure.

The only plausible mechanical explanation is a broken steering shaft - the same thing that killed Ayrton Senna. There is nothing else mechanical which would allow the steering wheel to be turned with no reaction from the car. Steering rack failure is much like ball joint failure - statistically zero. Power assist failure is certainly something that happens, but it does not allow the steering wheel to turn without turning the front wheels.

So, we're back to oil or sand on the road. If a dump truck had just spewed fine sand across the turn, it would be pretty much invisible, and cause the car to go straight instead of turning. Same thing with oil (or coolant). Both can be hard to see on a road depending on the time of day, type of surface, road condition, etc.. Having ridden over 200k miles on motorcycles on three continents I can say road surfaces are not always telling about their condition or available traction and on a motorcycle everything depends on being able to judge the road surface accurately.

So, I suspect the real cause was road conditions the driver didn't see or anticipate. JMHO based on 44 years of driving a wide range of motorized vehicles and the description of what happened.

Gville350

iTrader: (10)

Bottom line...we'll never know, so why bother throwing up more posts.

Toymota

Hey I'm just throwing it out there. I still think the burden of proof is on the OP to show that a defect caused the accident. I don't believe in automatically assuming it's the car's or Lexus's or anyone-except-yourself's fault because in most cases it IS user error.

But the ball joints on the tie rod ends fail all the time. Not necessarily breaking off completely. But they do get loose. Was just wondering what would happen... Probably more likely to fail then the steering shaft or rack anyway.

Oil or sand on the road... It happened in 2 different places and the scene of the accident looks like a fairly busy freeway off ramp, so many cars would have gone through before and after... I dunno... there are too many holes in the OP's story and it looks like he has moved on and is not coming back, so oh well...

cbishop11

Sounds like to me:

-OP installed stiffer suspension.
-OP was not used to driving with said suspension.
-OP turned for the corner,then turned more somewhere along the way (based on his story)
-The tires were not up to the task at that speed and stiffness of suspension, and they broke loose.
-The car then began to understeer and went straight for the curb.

If something broke you would think he would have described the car suddenly giving one way or another as some energy was released from the broken component in the suspension. What he described was classic overdriving the tires and breaking them loose....

diagtime

Only to engage in theoretical conversation...............something breaking, whether it be ball joints, steering shafts, or whatever............don't break and then fix themselves by cycling the key..or any other way. they would break and no more driving. and honestly, those things don't break in the real world without hitting something very hard.

And since we're having fun with theory, I have no idea what happened to in the case of the real OP. but i can tell you of a ridiculously similar case years ago. 2008 IS350. lowered (and i really do think it was tien coilovers). bbs wheels. guy was driving on an on ramp to an interstate (in this case it was not a full circle on ramp, more like an S) and claimed the steering broke. went off the road and over a curb. decent damage. Data showed vsc off, rear wheel speeds sensors reading much faster than front, and to sum it up......the g-forces did not match the direction of steering. some would call that a powerslide. some would call it a failed drift. different case than this thread of course. Just sayin.....just cause someone has a great story to tell on a forum......don't jump on the "get a lawyer" bandwagon.

blis350

I just had something similar happen today. I have a 2009 IS350 with less than 30K miles on it (barely driven). Going at 25MPH on a residential area and steering to the right randomly locked up. I could only turn the wheel from straight line to left, then back to straight line. I had to stop in the middle of the street to avoid oncoming traffic and finally make a U turn when everyone passed. This would have been a much tragic story if I was on the freeway or on an exit ramp. Luckily, it wasn't one of those cases and no accident occurred.

Called Lexus roadside assistance to get the car towed and is at the dealer for a day now. They have not given me any findings yet except for a call at the end of the day that they will need to inspect the car again tomorrow. The service rep mentioned that after putting in more force to turn the wheel to the right, it finally gave like something got jammed. He mentioned that it seems to be turning fine now but they will inspect it anyway (um, yeah). Not a good feeling to have as I will surely be paranoid driving the car if they do not find anything wrong now. At least the service rep confirmed in writing that it was definitely stuck turning to the right and had to put in force, try a few times to make it turn. Then everything just went magically back to normal.

I will post another update once I hear from my service rep.