IS250 Carbon Build up CSP
02-04-13, 06:26 AM
#421
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Just some clarity your car may not be a misfire car even of its an 250 some were made outside of the primary incident plants and lexus confirmed manual 250.are The Lowest likely to fail. And fellow tech from neW york. We do day long engine builds in atlanta. 27 hours case and build pay max. Min case 24.6 hour rebuild
Last edited by slideland; 02-04-13 at 06:30 AM.
02-04-13, 06:30 AM
#422
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We hot tank all our engine. brake cleaner, scrub, grind and whipe down. When the tank is down we just keep hand cleaning. We have a two car a day rotation. So far scrapped 4 blocks since i been at since 6 months into this rotation.
02-04-13, 09:53 AM
#424
Hello everyone! I just edited this post, because I didn't realize how long my in initial post was. I have never posted on this forum, but been on it many times. After reading numerous pages of posts, I came across Road Rage's post about doing this job in a day and a half. solo. I have been a Lexus Tech for 9 years and working as a tech for 12. I can't come within a couple days of that time....are they AWD? are you including test driving and initial snapshot diag/case creation in that time? I work in a part of NY state that is heavily salted. I do understand that you have a huge advantage on me if you don't see severe rust and corrosion or work with a torch, but PLEASE HELP a fellow starving flat rate tech doing warranty work! How are u doing them so fast? How are you able to do this in a day and a half by yourself? I am losing my a.. big time on these. Many of these engines are severe with carbon and pitting. What are you cleaning with? I have been using a wire bench grinder and castle dragon fire. Are you lapping the valves after cleaning them? Do you have any helpful suggestions? Any good shortcuts? Any advice would be appreciated. I would be more than happy to help you with any problems you may have with anything else Lexus related. I'm a senior diagnostic specialist, so I do a lot of what you do too.Thanks!
1) Why are you seeing pitting? Carbon buildup, from my weak knowledge, shouldn't cause pitting.
2) It sounds like you are REPAIRING rather then REPLACING. I do believe many of the techs are all replacing them with new parts thus the quick turn around.
Maybe I need more details.
02-04-13, 09:54 AM
#425
And to the guys wondering if it will happen again. Unless Lexus replaces your motor with a NON-DI motor.... YES you will have carbon buildup again.
I've come to the conclusion that, for me, there is no use in getting this work done. I'll just treat my car to seafoam every 12 months and be done with it.
I've come to the conclusion that, for me, there is no use in getting this work done. I'll just treat my car to seafoam every 12 months and be done with it.
02-04-13, 09:55 AM
#426
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Two things.
1) Why are you seeing pitting? Carbon buildup, from my weak knowledge, shouldn't cause pitting.
2) It sounds like you are REPAIRING rather then REPLACING. I do believe many of the techs are all replacing them with new parts thus the quick turn around.
Maybe I need more details.
1) Why are you seeing pitting? Carbon buildup, from my weak knowledge, shouldn't cause pitting.
2) It sounds like you are REPAIRING rather then REPLACING. I do believe many of the techs are all replacing them with new parts thus the quick turn around.
Maybe I need more details.
so we have to replace more often. and we replace parts and tlc as quickly and carefully as possible so our turn over is day at longest.
and direct injection carbon build up is inevitble
Last edited by slideland; 02-04-13 at 10:01 AM. Reason: grammar
02-04-13, 10:58 AM
#427
we do get a few pitted blocks from ring failure. ring failure is the primary source of our campaign. build up is the side effect. anyone telling you otherwise is miss-informed.
so we have to replace more often. and we replace parts and tlc as quickly and carefully as possible so our turn over is day at longest.
and direct injection carbon build up is inevitble
so we have to replace more often. and we replace parts and tlc as quickly and carefully as possible so our turn over is day at longest.
and direct injection carbon build up is inevitble
So to correct the pitting do you all sand the block after replacing the failed rings? Or do you fill in the pits with a compound then wait for it to harden.
Thanks for the educated post. I do like to learn this stuff.
And you are right, I was misinformed.
02-06-13, 05:03 PM
#429
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Thanks again for your help slideland!To answer CCJ22's post: The valves and head are pitted on a lot of the engines. (I was not referring to scored blocks) Some are worse than others. Once the valve and head is clean you can physically see the pitting. According the the TSIB, this is normal. When I'm rebuilding an engine, I only want to do it once. I think the valves should be lapped with a grinding compound to make a good seat. The compound will work into the head and valve helping to fill some of the pitting. I do know that the repair doesn't specifically call for it, but that may be where I'm losing another hour....wasted time? As far as REPAIRING not REPLACING in your post, the techs are not replacing your valves. They are cleaning them back to bare metal and the changing the valve seals, springs, lifters and retainers. I have found a couple valves the would not correctly seat after lapping them in... basically half a cut on the valve. Lapped in new valves and checked the trace on the head....they lapped good, so I didn't replace the guides. But... Never would have found them if I wasn't lapping them in. Has anyone/everyone had good luck skipping lapping in the valves? I may be wasting my time! The pics on this thread are no where near as bad as some of the carbon build up pics I have....but you really don't want to see them. Better left unseen like 1MZ Gelled engines. I need good clean pics of your Clean rebuilt engines posted!
Be sure to Keep up on your top end cleans!
Last edited by GravySuckR; 02-06-13 at 06:02 PM.
02-06-13, 06:18 PM
#431
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Thank you for the advice! When I do these jobs I'm doing full removal, cleaning, rebuild, install. We do have a hot tank, but it is old and doesn't work well. I will have to look into getting it fixed. Are you pulling the fuel rails from the heads or leaving them in when you hot tank the heads? It's a lot of extra gasket replacement to remove the rails. I have been using castle dragon fire and a wire or tooth brush to clean the carbon from the heads. It is nearly impossible to get everything out. (A hot tank might help this.) I'm using bench grinder with wire wheels to clean the valves. I also will try some brake clean as you mentioned, instead of carb clean. As far as the block goes, I know there isn't anytime I can cut....and cleaning FIPG is just long and tedious. I know I'm not a slow tech after 12 years of wrenching and 9 with Lexus flat rate. But....I would like to come a lot closer to "Road Rage's" post about doing the whole job in a day and a half by himself...I may feel better when I get my paycheck Thanks again for your help slideland!
To answer CCJ22's post: The valves and head are pitted on a lot of the engines. (I was not referring to scored blocks) Some are worse than others. Once the valve and head is clean you can physically see the pitting. According the the TSIB, this is normal. When I'm rebuilding an engine, I only want to do it once. I think the valves should be lapped with a grinding compound to make a good seat. The compound will work into the head and valve helping to fill some of the pitting. I do know that the repair doesn't specifically call for it, but that may be where I'm losing another hour....wasted time? As far as REPAIRING not REPLACING in your post, the techs are not replacing your valves. They are cleaning them back to bare metal and the changing the valve seals, springs, lifters and retainers. I have found a couple valves the would not correctly seat after lapping them in... basically half a cut on the valve. Lapped in new valves and checked the trace on the head....they lapped good, so I didn't replace the guides. But... Never would have found them if I wasn't lapping them in. Has anyone/everyone had good luck skipping lapping in the valves? I may be wasting my time! The pics on this thread are no where near as bad as some of the carbon build up pics I have....but you really don't want to see them. Better left unseen like 1MZ Gelled engines. I need good clean pics of your Clean rebuilt engines posted! Be sure to Keep up on your top end cleans!
Thanks again for your help slideland!To answer CCJ22's post: The valves and head are pitted on a lot of the engines. (I was not referring to scored blocks) Some are worse than others. Once the valve and head is clean you can physically see the pitting. According the the TSIB, this is normal. When I'm rebuilding an engine, I only want to do it once. I think the valves should be lapped with a grinding compound to make a good seat. The compound will work into the head and valve helping to fill some of the pitting. I do know that the repair doesn't specifically call for it, but that may be where I'm losing another hour....wasted time? As far as REPAIRING not REPLACING in your post, the techs are not replacing your valves. They are cleaning them back to bare metal and the changing the valve seals, springs, lifters and retainers. I have found a couple valves the would not correctly seat after lapping them in... basically half a cut on the valve. Lapped in new valves and checked the trace on the head....they lapped good, so I didn't replace the guides. But... Never would have found them if I wasn't lapping them in. Has anyone/everyone had good luck skipping lapping in the valves? I may be wasting my time! The pics on this thread are no where near as bad as some of the carbon build up pics I have....but you really don't want to see them. Better left unseen like 1MZ Gelled engines. I need good clean pics of your Clean rebuilt engines posted!
Be sure to Keep up on your top end cleans!its really just personal techniques... they rub off on others down here.
we leave the fuel rails on they are sensless to remove.brake clean and keep it moving; the fuel vaporizes with air or brake cleaner. the tank wont hurt it either.
we get all fipg out the way asap. less chance that the fipg gives me problems the better. i let the head sit with the valves all shut soaking in the head with TOYOTA TOP ENGINE SOLVANT. that way the valves arent rocks at the wire bench . no toothebrush, just a bench for grinding and wire scrubbing. no one here has lapped valves in a while.. some people lap... but the chance of pitting failure on valves is like 3% in my PERSONAL opinion. so no compound on head...
4 cans of brake clean (3 COVERED BY WARRANTY/ ONE ON SHOP TICKET) per block
and an air nozzle to blow out holes and blow your brake cleaner out is your friend...
the real question is how are you pulling the motor out? some people are doing out the bay . we do a drop down and lift the car... leave it on the subframe... do the motor, and put it back under the car, then drop the car on it tighten it back up. prime the motor and start. kills bull**** with tranmission. sorry for my language.
3/4 day process tops! no waits for extra parts. pre order the motor stuff that way you are tearing down the next motor before you leave for the day.
Last edited by slideland; 02-06-13 at 06:26 PM.
02-12-13, 06:59 PM
#432
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thanks
its really just personal techniques... they rub off on others down here.
we leave the fuel rails on they are sensless to remove.brake clean and keep it moving; the fuel vaporizes with air or brake cleaner. the tank wont hurt it either.
we get all fipg out the way asap. less chance that the fipg gives me problems the better. i let the head sit with the valves all shut soaking in the head with TOYOTA TOP ENGINE SOLVANT. that way the valves arent rocks at the wire bench . no toothebrush, just a bench for grinding and wire scrubbing. no one here has lapped valves in a while.. some people lap... but the chance of pitting failure on valves is like 3% in my PERSONAL opinion. so no compound on head...
4 cans of brake clean (3 COVERED BY WARRANTY/ ONE ON SHOP TICKET) per block
and an air nozzle to blow out holes and blow your brake cleaner out is your friend...
the real question is how are you pulling the motor out? some people are doing out the bay . we do a drop down and lift the car... leave it on the subframe... do the motor, and put it back under the car, then drop the car on it tighten it back up. prime the motor and start. kills bull**** with tranmission. sorry for my language.
3/4 day process tops! no waits for extra parts. pre order the motor stuff that way you are tearing down the next motor before you leave for the day.
we leave the fuel rails on they are sensless to remove.brake clean and keep it moving; the fuel vaporizes with air or brake cleaner. the tank wont hurt it either.
we get all fipg out the way asap. less chance that the fipg gives me problems the better. i let the head sit with the valves all shut soaking in the head with TOYOTA TOP ENGINE SOLVANT. that way the valves arent rocks at the wire bench . no toothebrush, just a bench for grinding and wire scrubbing. no one here has lapped valves in a while.. some people lap... but the chance of pitting failure on valves is like 3% in my PERSONAL opinion. so no compound on head...
4 cans of brake clean (3 COVERED BY WARRANTY/ ONE ON SHOP TICKET) per block
and an air nozzle to blow out holes and blow your brake cleaner out is your friend...
the real question is how are you pulling the motor out? some people are doing out the bay . we do a drop down and lift the car... leave it on the subframe... do the motor, and put it back under the car, then drop the car on it tighten it back up. prime the motor and start. kills bull**** with tranmission. sorry for my language.
3/4 day process tops! no waits for extra parts. pre order the motor stuff that way you are tearing down the next motor before you leave for the day.
I haven't heard of the Toyota stuff, I'll look into it. I know that GM stuff was working wonders, but it's the highest carcinogenic chemical we use! "the real question is how are you pulling the motor out? some people are doing out the bay . we do a drop down and lift the car... leave it on the subframe... do the motor" Same way. I can drop the engine an have it pulled off the subframe, and on a stand in about 2.0-3.0 hours....depending if I have to torch the exhaust bolts out...rusted nuts/studs....rust..corrosion...rust....and depending on how much coffee I drank...I got removal/install covered. I just prefer to build on an engine stand. always have.... "3/4 day process tops!" I agree with you there. My original post was asking "road rage" what tricks he had up his sleeve for completing the entire job in 1.5 days solo. I was shocked when I read his post. Getting paid 24.8 hours per the Tsib (awd) for 1.5 days work would be a lot nicer than 1 day of the job unpaid at 24.8 if it takes 3-4 days or more... 1.5 days on this job would be awesome! After talking to a few different techs from across the US, I think I may be going overboard on cleaning and seating valves and heads. You know, u only get paid once, I only wanted to do it once. Anyways, thank you for your input! please hit me up if you need help with anything you're stumped on. I'll probably start using this forum more. Big help with the hot tank info
02-12-13, 07:41 PM
#433
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I took my car to the dealer the day after I got the ENG light come up and they didn't do jack for me! They drove 16 miles, almost empty my tank and then gave the car back saying that they couldn't replicate the fault and that there was nothing they could do! After that my car is been having the same issue every now and then. I live in NJ and take my car to Tri County Lexus, I heard they are really bad and now I know. Does anyone knows where I could take my car to get fix? I mean a different dealer?
I try to replicate the fault and the only way you can get it to come back up is when you are driving and revving the ENG a bit high, around the 5-6k RPM but I won't happen as fast. Now if you disable the traction control and then rev it a bit high (while driving) then it's more prone to happen! I got to replicate the fault 3 times in 1 day but Lexus (or at least Tri County Lexus Dealer) still won't take my car!
I had the "check engine" misfire code pop up a few months ago, as it does sporadically, but it disappeared after a few days of driving. The question is does anyone know any tricks to bring up the misfire code again so that I can show the dealership that it's time to order the parts for the recall. I guess the sooner the parts replacement is done the better.
02-13-13, 07:40 AM
#434
I took my car to the dealer the day after I got the ENG light come up and they didn't do jack for me! They drove 16 miles, almost empty my tank and then gave the car back saying that they couldn't replicate the fault and that there was nothing they could do! After that my car is been having the same issue every now and then. I live in NJ and take my car to Tri County Lexus, I heard they are really bad and now I know. Does anyone knows where I could take my car to get fix? I mean a different dealer?
I try to replicate the fault and the only way you can get it to come back up is when you are driving and revving the ENG a bit high, around the 5-6k RPM but I won't happen as fast. Now if you disable the traction control and then rev it a bit high (while driving) then it's more prone to happen! I got to replicate the fault 3 times in 1 day but Lexus (or at least Tri County Lexus Dealer) still won't take my car!
I try to replicate the fault and the only way you can get it to come back up is when you are driving and revving the ENG a bit high, around the 5-6k RPM but I won't happen as fast. Now if you disable the traction control and then rev it a bit high (while driving) then it's more prone to happen! I got to replicate the fault 3 times in 1 day but Lexus (or at least Tri County Lexus Dealer) still won't take my car!
02-13-13, 06:57 PM
#435
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