Need help fighting a radar speeding ticket.
09-25-12, 11:25 AM
#1
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Need help fighting a radar speeding ticket.
Does anyone know where I can find out, for a 2012 IS 350:
1. The distance it would take to accelerate from 45 to 90?
2. The time it would take to accelerate from 45 to 90?
Can it be done in 1/10 of a mile?
Thanks.
sjh
1. The distance it would take to accelerate from 45 to 90?
2. The time it would take to accelerate from 45 to 90?
Can it be done in 1/10 of a mile?
Thanks.
sjh
09-25-12, 11:59 AM
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Looking for Authoritative Information
Should have made more clear I'm looking for published information.
Won one of these before, when I was driving a Jeep, with a Road and Track road test -- but the ticket was from a standing start, red light. Test showed the car was not capable of hitting the speed in the given distance.
My dealer has called Lexus.
I also read something in my documentation that there was a black box in the car that recorded data. The manual talks about our privacy rights. I asked the dealer if it recorded speed data or time and speed. He didn't think so.
My biggest concern is that I cannot get a jury in CA and it's going to be hard to convince a judge who has bonded with a Highway Patrolman, over the years, that the Patrolman made a mistake.
All help is welcome. And, I really appreciate it.
sjh
Won one of these before, when I was driving a Jeep, with a Road and Track road test -- but the ticket was from a standing start, red light. Test showed the car was not capable of hitting the speed in the given distance.
My dealer has called Lexus.
I also read something in my documentation that there was a black box in the car that recorded data. The manual talks about our privacy rights. I asked the dealer if it recorded speed data or time and speed. He didn't think so.
My biggest concern is that I cannot get a jury in CA and it's going to be hard to convince a judge who has bonded with a Highway Patrolman, over the years, that the Patrolman made a mistake.
All help is welcome. And, I really appreciate it.
sjh
09-25-12, 12:16 PM
#6
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Clocked?
How?
Many of the systems used are fallible.
The problem is that the law presumes them reliable when minimum criteria are met.
Biggest problem: Can't try it to a jury. Real people understand that electronic devices make mistakes.
Many of the systems used are fallible.
The problem is that the law presumes them reliable when minimum criteria are met.
Biggest problem: Can't try it to a jury. Real people understand that electronic devices make mistakes.
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09-25-12, 12:31 PM
#8
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I got the ticket, yesterday, and have yet to file the discovery request. He was very hostile so I did not ask to see the gun or the reading.
Long ways to go on this.
But I think my best defense will be empirical -- that the car could not accelerate to 90 from 45 in the distance covered.
Long ways to go on this.
But I think my best defense will be empirical -- that the car could not accelerate to 90 from 45 in the distance covered.
09-25-12, 12:37 PM
#9
I haven't seen a specific 45-90 measurement, but let's see if some math can get us anywhere-
0-40 is 2.7 seconds in 31.2 meters (road and track)
0-50 is 3.8 seconds in 56.3 meters (road and track)
0-90 is 10.3 seconds in 252 meters (road and track)
So---
40-50 takes 1.1 seconds and 25.1 meters... and 50-90 takes 195.7 meters and 6.5 seconds.
So 40-90 is 7.6 seconds and takes 220.8 meters (which is 0.137 miles)
And 50-90 is 6.5 seconds and 195.7 meters (which is 0.12 miles)
So... now some GUESSING-
45-90 should take, ideally, somewhere ROUGHLY around 7 seconds... and require a distance of ROUGHLY 0.125-0.13 miles....
So in 1/10th of a mile? No... but pretty close to it... 1/10th is 528 feet... the distance it would require is somewhere more than 642 feet but less than 724 feet.
0-40 is 2.7 seconds in 31.2 meters (road and track)
0-50 is 3.8 seconds in 56.3 meters (road and track)
0-90 is 10.3 seconds in 252 meters (road and track)
So---
40-50 takes 1.1 seconds and 25.1 meters... and 50-90 takes 195.7 meters and 6.5 seconds.
So 40-90 is 7.6 seconds and takes 220.8 meters (which is 0.137 miles)
And 50-90 is 6.5 seconds and 195.7 meters (which is 0.12 miles)
So... now some GUESSING-
45-90 should take, ideally, somewhere ROUGHLY around 7 seconds... and require a distance of ROUGHLY 0.125-0.13 miles....
So in 1/10th of a mile? No... but pretty close to it... 1/10th is 528 feet... the distance it would require is somewhere more than 642 feet but less than 724 feet.
Last edited by Kurtz; 09-25-12 at 01:01 PM.
09-25-12, 12:51 PM
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Wow!
Thanks.
The actual distance is less than 1/10 of a mile. I was being conservative.
If I can establish this, authoritatively, I think it challenges the radar gun. Once it's off, it's off and not reliable.
Thanks again. I'm going to stay on this path.
Best,
sjh
The actual distance is less than 1/10 of a mile. I was being conservative.
If I can establish this, authoritatively, I think it challenges the radar gun. Once it's off, it's off and not reliable.
Thanks again. I'm going to stay on this path.
Best,
sjh
09-25-12, 02:15 PM
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I haven't seen a specific 45-90 measurement, but let's see if some math can get us anywhere-
0-40 is 2.7 seconds in 31.2 meters (road and track)
0-50 is 3.8 seconds in 56.3 meters (road and track)
0-90 is 10.3 seconds in 252 meters (road and track)
So---
40-50 takes 1.1 seconds and 25.1 meters... and 50-90 takes 195.7 meters and 6.5 seconds.
So 40-90 is 7.6 seconds and takes 220.8 meters (which is 0.137 miles)
And 50-90 is 6.5 seconds and 195.7 meters (which is 0.12 miles)
So... now some GUESSING-
45-90 should take, ideally, somewhere ROUGHLY around 7 seconds... and require a distance of ROUGHLY 0.125-0.13 miles....
So in 1/10th of a mile? No... but pretty close to it... 1/10th is 528 feet... the distance it would require is somewhere more than 642 feet but less than 724 feet.
0-40 is 2.7 seconds in 31.2 meters (road and track)
0-50 is 3.8 seconds in 56.3 meters (road and track)
0-90 is 10.3 seconds in 252 meters (road and track)
So---
40-50 takes 1.1 seconds and 25.1 meters... and 50-90 takes 195.7 meters and 6.5 seconds.
So 40-90 is 7.6 seconds and takes 220.8 meters (which is 0.137 miles)
And 50-90 is 6.5 seconds and 195.7 meters (which is 0.12 miles)
So... now some GUESSING-
45-90 should take, ideally, somewhere ROUGHLY around 7 seconds... and require a distance of ROUGHLY 0.125-0.13 miles....
So in 1/10th of a mile? No... but pretty close to it... 1/10th is 528 feet... the distance it would require is somewhere more than 642 feet but less than 724 feet.
09-25-12, 04:03 PM
#15
Since you're in CA, you should do Trial by Written Declaration before going to court. If you lose your TBWD, then you can go to court to fight it.
I've had luck using this advice from CL member cybeclipse that was posted in another speeding ticket thread:
I've had luck using this advice from CL member cybeclipse that was posted in another speeding ticket thread:
Step 1) Don't do anything. Wait for the bail letter to come. On the letter you'll see an appearance date (about 21 days from ticket date). Call your court number (find it online) or write to the court asking for a one month extension to the appearance date. Some courts websites might even allow you to extend online with just a few clicks. They never ask for reasons, but if they do, just say you'll be out of town and need more time.
San Mateo County online request sample:
http://i38.tinypic.com/xdz4hf.jpg
http://i36.tinypic.com/e7hr1c.jpg
http://i33.tinypic.com/opqufm.jpg
Step 2) About 5 days before the court appearance date, fill this out and send it in WITH your bail money. This is a Request for Trial by Written Declaration, meaning you pled not guilty and would like to fight your ticket by mail.
http://ticketassassin.com/docs/40519b.html
Make sure you mail it with your bail money BEFORE the due date. You can also do this in person in court on the due date.
Step 3) You'll get a reply from the court with a Form TR205: Trial By Written Declaration. This is the form where you write out your argument and mail it in. On the form there will be a 21 days due date. Write or Call the court as soon as possible and ask for a one month extension from that due date. They will give it to you no questions asked. (I say this again, AS SOON AS POSSIBLE. Not five days from the due date. Not on the due date. AS SOON AS POSSIBLE. If you are dumb enough to miss this, you deserve to lose your case)
Step 4) Type up an argument of what you think happened. Mail the Form TR205 to the court before the new due date but as late as possible. If you don't know how to write an argument, here are some samples, copy and paste and change the details to make it your own argument.
http://ticketassassin.com/docs/forms.html
Vehicle Code General Provisions and Divisions 1 - 18
http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/vc/vctoc.htm
Illegal Mods
http://www.chp.ca.gov/community/streetlegal.html
Step 5) Once the court receives your Form TR205, they will THEN request the officer's statement, which he has 21 days to reply. Three things might happen:
- The cop got lazy or transferred to another department, didn't write and reply his argument. You WIN! (Bail money will be refunded to you)
- The cop replied. Judge agrees with you. You WIN! (Bail money will be refunded to you)
- The cop replied. Judge agreed with the cop. You lose. (Court keeps your money)
Either way, you'll get a reply from the court.
Step 6) If you lose your Trial by Written Declaration, you can still write to the court and request a Court Trial within 20 days. Write to the court and request a new trial days before the deadline (you want to be as late as possible and delay the case. Request this at the court on the 19th day if you can, or mail your request on the 16th day).
Step 7) The court will HAVE to grant you a new case, they'll reply you a new date to appear to court to meet with the officer. Write or Call the court AS SOON AS POSSIBLE andrequest a one month extension to that court date (they won't extend your date if you just call the day before trial. Request an extension once you get the letter). The court will change the court date for you.
Step 8) On the date of the trial, make sure you appear, it is a crime to not show up. They can issue an arrest warrant.
- Most likely the cop wouldn't show up, because he wouldn't remember any details by then (6 to 9 months have passed). Or he threw away his notes and won't bother coming to court. You will Win.
- Or, he will show up. The two of you will argue in court........good luck with that.
Another note. If you end up really having to argue in court, you can go to court prior to the trial date and get a copy of the cop's trial by written declaration, just so you know what his argument was. It is public information and the clerk HAS to give it to you. You can make your statement based on what his argument was.
Good luck.
Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, this is not legal advice.
Credit: www.ticketassassin.com
San Mateo County online request sample:
http://i38.tinypic.com/xdz4hf.jpg
http://i36.tinypic.com/e7hr1c.jpg
http://i33.tinypic.com/opqufm.jpg
Step 2) About 5 days before the court appearance date, fill this out and send it in WITH your bail money. This is a Request for Trial by Written Declaration, meaning you pled not guilty and would like to fight your ticket by mail.
http://ticketassassin.com/docs/40519b.html
Make sure you mail it with your bail money BEFORE the due date. You can also do this in person in court on the due date.
Step 3) You'll get a reply from the court with a Form TR205: Trial By Written Declaration. This is the form where you write out your argument and mail it in. On the form there will be a 21 days due date. Write or Call the court as soon as possible and ask for a one month extension from that due date. They will give it to you no questions asked. (I say this again, AS SOON AS POSSIBLE. Not five days from the due date. Not on the due date. AS SOON AS POSSIBLE. If you are dumb enough to miss this, you deserve to lose your case)
Step 4) Type up an argument of what you think happened. Mail the Form TR205 to the court before the new due date but as late as possible. If you don't know how to write an argument, here are some samples, copy and paste and change the details to make it your own argument.
http://ticketassassin.com/docs/forms.html
Vehicle Code General Provisions and Divisions 1 - 18
http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/vc/vctoc.htm
Illegal Mods
http://www.chp.ca.gov/community/streetlegal.html
Step 5) Once the court receives your Form TR205, they will THEN request the officer's statement, which he has 21 days to reply. Three things might happen:
- The cop got lazy or transferred to another department, didn't write and reply his argument. You WIN! (Bail money will be refunded to you)
- The cop replied. Judge agrees with you. You WIN! (Bail money will be refunded to you)
- The cop replied. Judge agreed with the cop. You lose. (Court keeps your money)
Either way, you'll get a reply from the court.
Step 6) If you lose your Trial by Written Declaration, you can still write to the court and request a Court Trial within 20 days. Write to the court and request a new trial days before the deadline (you want to be as late as possible and delay the case. Request this at the court on the 19th day if you can, or mail your request on the 16th day).
Step 7) The court will HAVE to grant you a new case, they'll reply you a new date to appear to court to meet with the officer. Write or Call the court AS SOON AS POSSIBLE andrequest a one month extension to that court date (they won't extend your date if you just call the day before trial. Request an extension once you get the letter). The court will change the court date for you.
Step 8) On the date of the trial, make sure you appear, it is a crime to not show up. They can issue an arrest warrant.
- Most likely the cop wouldn't show up, because he wouldn't remember any details by then (6 to 9 months have passed). Or he threw away his notes and won't bother coming to court. You will Win.
- Or, he will show up. The two of you will argue in court........good luck with that.
Another note. If you end up really having to argue in court, you can go to court prior to the trial date and get a copy of the cop's trial by written declaration, just so you know what his argument was. It is public information and the clerk HAS to give it to you. You can make your statement based on what his argument was.
Good luck.
Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, this is not legal advice.
Credit: www.ticketassassin.com