IS350 Engine "Fluttering" Noise - What would cause this?
01-15-16, 11:59 AM
#35
So the car is at an independent garage now sitting for diagnosis; the owner tells me it's most likely the rod bearings, so he will take off the oil pan and lower part of the block to fully see the extent of the problem. If the crankshaft isn't damaged, all 12 rod bearings will be changed.
Fingers crossed the crank is OK
Fingers crossed the crank is OK
01-18-16, 02:51 PM
#36
IS350 Engine "Fluttering" Noise (Update: Spun Rod Bearings)
Update: visit to the garage!
This the first time I've ever had one of my cars up on a lift. I wish I had one at home
Belly of the beast. The bottom of the block was completely taken apart to inspect the crankshaft and bearings.
Beautiful in it's own way. I noticed on the first picture I'm essentially one O-ring "shaft" away from a **** and *****...oh Toyota you.
The damage. Confirmed worn/spun rod bearings.
8 out of 12 bearing halves were all like this. Garage owner said there's no way this could've happened unless oil maintenance was skipped/not properly done. I would like to give benefit of the doubt to the first owner, but at this point I realize he knew of this condition before selling the vehicle.
Remnants in the oil pan.
At this point, all 6 rod bearings and 4 main bearings are going to be replaced. There is surprisingly no severe crank damage (I did not see connecting rod area damage, but the main bearing locations showed no damage whatsoever). Both bottom engine mounts will also be replaced, since the car is already apart and both are worn out.
This the first time I've ever had one of my cars up on a lift. I wish I had one at home
Belly of the beast. The bottom of the block was completely taken apart to inspect the crankshaft and bearings.
Beautiful in it's own way. I noticed on the first picture I'm essentially one O-ring "shaft" away from a **** and *****...oh Toyota you.
The damage. Confirmed worn/spun rod bearings.
8 out of 12 bearing halves were all like this. Garage owner said there's no way this could've happened unless oil maintenance was skipped/not properly done. I would like to give benefit of the doubt to the first owner, but at this point I realize he knew of this condition before selling the vehicle.
Remnants in the oil pan.
At this point, all 6 rod bearings and 4 main bearings are going to be replaced. There is surprisingly no severe crank damage (I did not see connecting rod area damage, but the main bearing locations showed no damage whatsoever). Both bottom engine mounts will also be replaced, since the car is already apart and both are worn out.
Last edited by ColdFusion; 01-18-16 at 03:19 PM.
01-18-16, 03:38 PM
#40
At this point, we think the following series of events occurred that led to this point:
1. At one point, the first owner didn't do a proper scheduled oil change, or the garage where he did it didn't do it properly. Lubrication to the crank bearings became insufficient.
2. At time of purchase of the car, we noticed the car decelerated itself while cruising down from ~20mph. When no brakes were applied, it actually felt like someone was lightly tapping the brake, even though there was no driver input on the brake pedal. When the car was bought we honestly didn't think anything too much about this issue.
3. We now suspect that this "self-braking" phenomenon was actually the engine RPM trying to overcome a "stuck" rod bearing; at high RPM's the crank rotation would have no problem overcoming a loose rod bearing, but a low RPM's the rotations needed to overcome the resistance displayed as the "self-braking" symptom.
4. The noise starts when the rod bearing is free. At this point the damage has started, and was evidenced by the metal flakes in the oil filter.
The lesson in all this, at least for me? Do a goddamn independent mechanic inspection of any used car you buy. Should we have known about the possible cause of the problem we would've walked far away and looked elsewhere.
Expensive lesson learned.
1. At one point, the first owner didn't do a proper scheduled oil change, or the garage where he did it didn't do it properly. Lubrication to the crank bearings became insufficient.
2. At time of purchase of the car, we noticed the car decelerated itself while cruising down from ~20mph. When no brakes were applied, it actually felt like someone was lightly tapping the brake, even though there was no driver input on the brake pedal. When the car was bought we honestly didn't think anything too much about this issue.
3. We now suspect that this "self-braking" phenomenon was actually the engine RPM trying to overcome a "stuck" rod bearing; at high RPM's the crank rotation would have no problem overcoming a loose rod bearing, but a low RPM's the rotations needed to overcome the resistance displayed as the "self-braking" symptom.
4. The noise starts when the rod bearing is free. At this point the damage has started, and was evidenced by the metal flakes in the oil filter.
The lesson in all this, at least for me? Do a goddamn independent mechanic inspection of any used car you buy. Should we have known about the possible cause of the problem we would've walked far away and looked elsewhere.
Expensive lesson learned.
01-19-16, 05:52 PM
#41
First thing I do on ALL used vehicle purchases is actually remove the oil filler cap and smell inside the valve cover. Any smell of burnt oil or burnt metal and I run. Another trick is to convince the seller to have the oil filter removed and inspected for metal shavings.
So what will the shop do to ensure all of the shavings are out of the motor? Are they going to have the entire motor removed and cleaned and re-assembled? Do they feel that a micropolish of the journals will get it back in ship-shape?
So what will the shop do to ensure all of the shavings are out of the motor? Are they going to have the entire motor removed and cleaned and re-assembled? Do they feel that a micropolish of the journals will get it back in ship-shape?
01-26-16, 10:05 AM
#42
At this point, we think the following series of events occurred that led to this point:
1. At one point, the first owner didn't do a proper scheduled oil change, or the garage where he did it didn't do it properly. Lubrication to the crank bearings became insufficient.
2. At time of purchase of the car, we noticed the car decelerated itself while cruising down from ~20mph. When no brakes were applied, it actually felt like someone was lightly tapping the brake, even though there was no driver input on the brake pedal. When the car was bought we honestly didn't think anything too much about this issue.
3. We now suspect that this "self-braking" phenomenon was actually the engine RPM trying to overcome a "stuck" rod bearing; at high RPM's the crank rotation would have no problem overcoming a loose rod bearing, but a low RPM's the rotations needed to overcome the resistance displayed as the "self-braking" symptom.
4. The noise starts when the rod bearing is free. At this point the damage has started, and was evidenced by the metal flakes in the oil filter.
The lesson in all this, at least for me? Do a goddamn independent mechanic inspection of any used car you buy. Should we have known about the possible cause of the problem we would've walked far away and looked elsewhere.
Expensive lesson learned.
1. At one point, the first owner didn't do a proper scheduled oil change, or the garage where he did it didn't do it properly. Lubrication to the crank bearings became insufficient.
2. At time of purchase of the car, we noticed the car decelerated itself while cruising down from ~20mph. When no brakes were applied, it actually felt like someone was lightly tapping the brake, even though there was no driver input on the brake pedal. When the car was bought we honestly didn't think anything too much about this issue.
3. We now suspect that this "self-braking" phenomenon was actually the engine RPM trying to overcome a "stuck" rod bearing; at high RPM's the crank rotation would have no problem overcoming a loose rod bearing, but a low RPM's the rotations needed to overcome the resistance displayed as the "self-braking" symptom.
4. The noise starts when the rod bearing is free. At this point the damage has started, and was evidenced by the metal flakes in the oil filter.
The lesson in all this, at least for me? Do a goddamn independent mechanic inspection of any used car you buy. Should we have known about the possible cause of the problem we would've walked far away and looked elsewhere.
Expensive lesson learned.
Keith
01-27-16, 01:49 PM
#44
Right now the car's still on a lift....the garage has been having problems getting the correct rod and main bearings (Lexus is asking for some kind of engine block number in order to match the bearing). So right now it's just a waiting game until the parts come.