Do I have a blown head gasket?
11-05-18, 04:34 PM
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Do I have a blown head gasket?
So here's a short version of what happened. Friday my water pump gave out. I bought some jugs of water and tried driving it home. I made it halfway until the car got too hot and I pulled over and turned it off. Got towed back to my cousins house and fixed the water pump Saturday. After fixing it my cousin noticed there was a lot of pressure on the cap and the car was stone cold. We also noticed some white smoke from the tail pipes. As well as right before the water pump went out I noticed that when I was standing still the heat would not work, when I would drive the heat would in fact work. My cousin really thinks I have a blown head gasket, while another friend thinks I need to bleed the coolant. What are your guys' personal opinions or ideas? Any pointers would be greatly appreciated!!
11-05-18, 04:39 PM
#2
Lexus Champion
Bleed the system and do a pressure test. If there was white smoke(steam) at the tail pipe you can taste the water forming at the edge of pipe. Sweet taste means coolant.
11-05-18, 06:30 PM
#3
Cold engine on a cold day will make a lot of steam so to speak. A warm engine still producing an abundant cloud, that tells another story.
In short the engine and exhaust must be up to operating temperature.
That said the post above about pressure testing the coolant system is spot on!
In short the engine and exhaust must be up to operating temperature.
That said the post above about pressure testing the coolant system is spot on!
11-06-18, 08:03 AM
#4
Driver School Candidate
Do I have a blown headgasket
The previous advice given is sound and so I will not add to that. I do have a couple of questions though as a relatively new owner of a Lexus IS 350 (2010). What is the year and model of your car? When you first noticed that your heater only worked upon driving versus standing still did you check your coolant level? If so, did you find it full or low? If low did you add and the heater worked normally for a while? Also, if low did you find the source of the leak/failure? I ask these questions so that I can help myself, i.e., watching my water pump as my car ages, but also to help you in your diagnosis. That is, you may bleed the system and drive the car a while as long as you keep copious watch on the coolant level. If it drops it may indeed be a head gasket, but depending on the answer to the questions above there may be another source of the leak that has not yet been identified.
That said, 'pressure in the system' when cold is suspicious. Look around your recovery reservoir (I'm assuming Lexus has one here as I've not checked my car yet) for evidence of coolant blow-out. Whitish deposits around that reservoir could suggest a head gasket failure between a water jacket and a cylinder. White smoke out the exhaust when the car is at full operating temperature would be another clue as to where exactly the gasket failed.
My previous experiences with head gaskets were from Honda Civics with known weaknesses in the gasket design. It sounds as though when you saw your car getting hot you pulled over immediately and called for a tow which tells me you watch your gauges. Hopefully you will find that your car did not get sufficiently hot to have compromised the gasket nor the flatness of the head/deck.
Best luck,
Ed in Dallas
That said, 'pressure in the system' when cold is suspicious. Look around your recovery reservoir (I'm assuming Lexus has one here as I've not checked my car yet) for evidence of coolant blow-out. Whitish deposits around that reservoir could suggest a head gasket failure between a water jacket and a cylinder. White smoke out the exhaust when the car is at full operating temperature would be another clue as to where exactly the gasket failed.
My previous experiences with head gaskets were from Honda Civics with known weaknesses in the gasket design. It sounds as though when you saw your car getting hot you pulled over immediately and called for a tow which tells me you watch your gauges. Hopefully you will find that your car did not get sufficiently hot to have compromised the gasket nor the flatness of the head/deck.
Best luck,
Ed in Dallas
11-06-18, 06:09 PM
#6
I had a water pump completely seize and burn the belt on a previous vehicle. It was pretty obvious something went wrong.
But why is there always talk of pump failure and cooling issues from said failure? Slow leaks can be caught upon inspection. Its rare the pump ever causes over heating. Well except 2 conditions noted here...
I'll likely take a hit for this but WTF can fail that renders it unable to do its job and pump coolant?
1) completely seized. Yep, that's a show stopper.
2) impeller falls off. Yep, but never heard of that.
3) a seal leaks. Ok so you have slow tiny drip, upon cool down it may not refill the block. If unchecked, you over heat. That's neglect.
4) bearing failure and shaft wobble. Terrible noise under the hood and likely leaks under pressure. Haven't heard of this one either. Should be followed by a giant steam cloud.
Just curious what others are thinking.
But why is there always talk of pump failure and cooling issues from said failure? Slow leaks can be caught upon inspection. Its rare the pump ever causes over heating. Well except 2 conditions noted here...
I'll likely take a hit for this but WTF can fail that renders it unable to do its job and pump coolant?
1) completely seized. Yep, that's a show stopper.
2) impeller falls off. Yep, but never heard of that.
3) a seal leaks. Ok so you have slow tiny drip, upon cool down it may not refill the block. If unchecked, you over heat. That's neglect.
4) bearing failure and shaft wobble. Terrible noise under the hood and likely leaks under pressure. Haven't heard of this one either. Should be followed by a giant steam cloud.
Just curious what others are thinking.
11-07-18, 05:45 PM
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**One thing I failed to mention to you guys is that the car is a 2012 Lexus IS250 AWD.**
So. an update for you guys. My Head gasket is definitely the cause. I did change the thermostat housing before I bled the system. There was smoke coming out of the radiator cap area (without cap). I did finally get the car to operating temp and it never overheated, but the white smoke from the tail pipe did get thicker. The smoke was also sweetish (coolant). I wound up getting check engine light codes:
P050B- Cold start ignition timing performance
P0306- Cylinder 6 misfire detected
P0304- Cylinder 4 misfire detected
P0302- Cylinder 2 misfire detected
P0300- Random/Multiple cylinder misfire detected.
When I put the cap back on the radiator the smoke got really bad, it became a cloud. I went further and wanted to check the spark plugs, they didn't have any white caked on residue as I was told it would be. Mainly they were filled with carbon buildup. This situation really sucks unfortunately. Mainly because I still owe on it and I cannot drive it. I guess m question now becomes, Is it worth fixing the heads? or getting a new motor? I did also dream about throwing an LS1/2 or 3...but that's just me dreaming lol. What are your suggestions? I'll be getting my car towed tomorrow to a shop.
So. an update for you guys. My Head gasket is definitely the cause. I did change the thermostat housing before I bled the system. There was smoke coming out of the radiator cap area (without cap). I did finally get the car to operating temp and it never overheated, but the white smoke from the tail pipe did get thicker. The smoke was also sweetish (coolant). I wound up getting check engine light codes:
P050B- Cold start ignition timing performance
P0306- Cylinder 6 misfire detected
P0304- Cylinder 4 misfire detected
P0302- Cylinder 2 misfire detected
P0300- Random/Multiple cylinder misfire detected.
When I put the cap back on the radiator the smoke got really bad, it became a cloud. I went further and wanted to check the spark plugs, they didn't have any white caked on residue as I was told it would be. Mainly they were filled with carbon buildup. This situation really sucks unfortunately. Mainly because I still owe on it and I cannot drive it. I guess m question now becomes, Is it worth fixing the heads? or getting a new motor? I did also dream about throwing an LS1/2 or 3...but that's just me dreaming lol. What are your suggestions? I'll be getting my car towed tomorrow to a shop.
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11-07-18, 05:53 PM
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When I noticed the heater not working I thought maybe it was something else because when I turn my car on, it usually takes a minute before I could do anything with the heat/cool *****. It's probably not a good thing too but, its been like that and still always worked. However, this day I thought it was extra weird. I SHOULD have checked my coolant levels etc, but I thought nothing of it. What I think happened to me is, my thermostat went to crap and one thing lead to another unfortunately. A step by step of what happened to me.
I drove to get lunch at work. came back, parked and was eating with the car on. During my drive the heat was fine, not until I parked did I notice the heat was not working. While eating I noticed a bit of smoke and thought...hmm...odd, while it was cold out, It seemed like it came from the front end of the car so I immediately jumped out and checked. Nothing visible really from opening the hood (I still have all my motor covers and whatnot). So I took a look underneath, and it was pissing coolant. I immediately turned the car off and started making phone calls.
I drove to get lunch at work. came back, parked and was eating with the car on. During my drive the heat was fine, not until I parked did I notice the heat was not working. While eating I noticed a bit of smoke and thought...hmm...odd, while it was cold out, It seemed like it came from the front end of the car so I immediately jumped out and checked. Nothing visible really from opening the hood (I still have all my motor covers and whatnot). So I took a look underneath, and it was pissing coolant. I immediately turned the car off and started making phone calls.
11-09-18, 06:05 AM
#9
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Thanks for the update and clarifying a few things for us. On whether your car is worth fixing there are multiple factors that can go into that decision:
Do you love the car?
Is it in good shape cosmetically?
Does it use any oil in-between changes?
How many miles are on the car?
Have you begun to notice other things going wrong?
Do you know the maintenance history of the vehicle?
Was/is it well cared for and the only thing wrong now is the headgasket?
What is the book value of the car in your region in good, running condition?
What is the cost to replace the headgasket?
etc. etc. etc.
Only you know your car and your attachment to it, which is a big factor in whether you repair it or sell it to a shop as-is. All of that said, a head gasket is just that, a gasket, albeit an expensive one to replace. If you don't think the vehicle overheated dangerously then there is no reason to believe that the head/deck are no longer parallel enough to mate a new gasket between them. A good shop will check the mating surfaces for flatness tolerances and determine what if anything needs done there. Another thing, having the head off of the car to replace the gasket would give a great opportunity to clean any carbon off of the valves, get a good look at timing chain guides/rails, etc. It will be opened up for the trained eye to assess everything.
Find a really good mechanic in your area and ask to have a face-to-face conversation with them when they can find the time. Maybe buy them lunch and sit and talk for 30 minutes. Ask for references, warrantees, and scope of work. The best ones won't blanch at an owner respectfully asking these questions. Since your repair costs will be appreciable homework is warranted. Also, I'm a stickler for using genuine OEM parts when doing repairs, especially when Toyota/Lexus has some of the finest design engineers on the planet. Their metallurgists, ME's, and Chem E's are second to none. My humble suggestion would be to not scrimp by buying junk replacement parts. For instance, I went to diagnose a loud squeal from beneath the hood of a friend's car. There was a brand new alternator under that hood so I put my stethoscope on everything else firstly; water pump, air conditioner, power steering pump, anything with rotating bearings. You guessed it, that shiny alternator was from Autozone and had crappy bearings installed in it. What good is a lifetime guarantee if you spend your lifetime replacing parts to take back? In your case you don't want to have to tear half the engine apart to replace a sub-standard gasket made by a shady aftermarket company. That is my opinion after working on and restoring automobiles for about 45 years. Others may have differing opinions which I respect as well, these are just mine.
Good luck, and please do keep us posted as to what you learn. I'm still not really clear on the series of events that caused a catastrophic head gasket failure, but your theory on a stuck thermostat is as valid as any. My guess, and this is simply a guess, is that something allowed a dribble of coolant over time, perhaps the water pump weep hole, and it evaporated and went unnoticed over a period of time allowing the vehicle to run hotter than normal. When you found it pissing coolant the water pump had finally given up it's seal completely and was expelling the coolant at a furious rate. Again, just a guess and my intention is not to armchair quarterback anything that you are seeing real-time while standing at the car. Your eyes and ears trump all.
Ed in Dallas
Do you love the car?
Is it in good shape cosmetically?
Does it use any oil in-between changes?
How many miles are on the car?
Have you begun to notice other things going wrong?
Do you know the maintenance history of the vehicle?
Was/is it well cared for and the only thing wrong now is the headgasket?
What is the book value of the car in your region in good, running condition?
What is the cost to replace the headgasket?
etc. etc. etc.
Only you know your car and your attachment to it, which is a big factor in whether you repair it or sell it to a shop as-is. All of that said, a head gasket is just that, a gasket, albeit an expensive one to replace. If you don't think the vehicle overheated dangerously then there is no reason to believe that the head/deck are no longer parallel enough to mate a new gasket between them. A good shop will check the mating surfaces for flatness tolerances and determine what if anything needs done there. Another thing, having the head off of the car to replace the gasket would give a great opportunity to clean any carbon off of the valves, get a good look at timing chain guides/rails, etc. It will be opened up for the trained eye to assess everything.
Find a really good mechanic in your area and ask to have a face-to-face conversation with them when they can find the time. Maybe buy them lunch and sit and talk for 30 minutes. Ask for references, warrantees, and scope of work. The best ones won't blanch at an owner respectfully asking these questions. Since your repair costs will be appreciable homework is warranted. Also, I'm a stickler for using genuine OEM parts when doing repairs, especially when Toyota/Lexus has some of the finest design engineers on the planet. Their metallurgists, ME's, and Chem E's are second to none. My humble suggestion would be to not scrimp by buying junk replacement parts. For instance, I went to diagnose a loud squeal from beneath the hood of a friend's car. There was a brand new alternator under that hood so I put my stethoscope on everything else firstly; water pump, air conditioner, power steering pump, anything with rotating bearings. You guessed it, that shiny alternator was from Autozone and had crappy bearings installed in it. What good is a lifetime guarantee if you spend your lifetime replacing parts to take back? In your case you don't want to have to tear half the engine apart to replace a sub-standard gasket made by a shady aftermarket company. That is my opinion after working on and restoring automobiles for about 45 years. Others may have differing opinions which I respect as well, these are just mine.
Good luck, and please do keep us posted as to what you learn. I'm still not really clear on the series of events that caused a catastrophic head gasket failure, but your theory on a stuck thermostat is as valid as any. My guess, and this is simply a guess, is that something allowed a dribble of coolant over time, perhaps the water pump weep hole, and it evaporated and went unnoticed over a period of time allowing the vehicle to run hotter than normal. When you found it pissing coolant the water pump had finally given up it's seal completely and was expelling the coolant at a furious rate. Again, just a guess and my intention is not to armchair quarterback anything that you are seeing real-time while standing at the car. Your eyes and ears trump all.
Ed in Dallas
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