2014 LEXUS IS Official Debut Discussion (merged threads)
01-10-13, 01:38 PM
#301
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Nope, this is the car
01-10-13, 01:55 PM
#302
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My guess is the non F sport IS front bumper will look more like the GS F Sport with a divding color matched center separating an upper an lower grill. The GS F sport looked pretty aggressive but when you compare that to the IS F sport the GS looks much tamer now. I actually think the GS F sport front bumper is nicer than the IS F sport. I like the car interior and exterior wise.
01-10-13, 02:14 PM
#303
Like I already said, most reviews out there about the prototype said that the new IS is not sportier than the outgoing model at lower speed. But who' gonna do 60mph cornering outside of the racetrack? For those who bring IS to the racetrack, they will not keep it stock anyway.
Are you talking about the design or the driving characters of the car? I'm pretty sure the prototype auto journos tested back in late 2012 was 90% production ready and it didn't have aggressive suspension set up.
Are you talking about the design or the driving characters of the car? I'm pretty sure the prototype auto journos tested back in late 2012 was 90% production ready and it didn't have aggressive suspension set up.
However, I suspect that the base 3IS is too sporty, or too radical for the mass public.
Look at this BMW forum below, at see how other people view our 3IS, and they are a significantly bigger group than us: http://www.f30post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=789893
Btw, one rough way to take into account the effect of the ES on IS and GS sales is to total the sales of all 3 models up for the USA in 2012:
ES 56,158
IS 27,708
GS 22,160
Total = 106,026
3 Series 99,602
5 Series [without 6 Series of 8,208] @ 56,798
Total = 156,400
C Class 81,697
E Class [without CLS of 8,065] @ 65,171
Total = 146,868
Thus, even with the ES sedan included, and considering how much cheaper the three Lexus models are relative to their German counterparts, Lexus still trails BM and Benz by a long way.
It helps to have not just more engine & suspension variations, but also more body variations to cater for the different tastes in the mainstream mass market.
Note how the 6 Series & CLS body variations contribute about 8,000+ units each, in sales?
As it stands, I suspect the 3IS won't do well in the mainstream mass market, just like the 22,160 units of the GS against the 56,796 5 Series and 65,171 E Classes.
Even when we take the ES into account, it's still 106k ES/S/GS versus 157k 3/5 Series, and 146k C/E Classes.
The mass market has a more conservative taste, and not so radical.
Sales ultimately increases the profitability to pour back into R&D, and without solid R&D, the company faces a bleak future with delayed 8 speed gear boxes etc etc.
Interestingly, did the GS fail to meet its minimum target of 2k per month?
It's one thing to design for enthusiasts; it's another thing to design for the mass public.
Sales are all about the tastes of the mass market...
Last edited by peteharvey; 01-10-13 at 02:29 PM.
01-10-13, 02:16 PM
#304
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FYI for All...
My guess is the non F sport IS front bumper will look more like the GS F Sport with a divding color matched center separating an upper an lower grill. The GS F sport looked pretty aggressive but when you compare that to the IS F sport the GS looks much tamer now. I actually think the GS F sport front bumper is nicer than the IS F sport. I like the car interior and exterior wise.
You can see Upper & Lower grill differences, plus bonus Fog Lights, PLUS regular non-LED headlamp housings..!!
You saw it here "First" & "Officially" (covered up) LoL
More clading below, but you can see the same grills + headlamps on + fog lamps...
Enjoy,
~ Joe Z
Last edited by Joe Z; 01-10-13 at 02:21 PM.
01-10-13, 02:30 PM
#305
so this is much nicer as it is usable, plus it doesnt look cheap, you get nice metal rings around it... there was a nicer pics on AB that showed it in better light.
01-10-13, 02:32 PM
#306
Now that we have seen what the F Sport looks like, we can roughly predict the shape of the base model.
However, I suspect that the base 3IS is too sporty, or too radical for the mass public.
Look at this BMW forum below, at see how other people view our 3IS, and they are a significantly bigger group than us: http://www.f30post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=789893
Btw, one rough way to take into account the effect of the ES on IS and GS sales is to total the sales of all 3 models up for the USA in 2012:
ES 56,158
IS 27,708
GS 22,160
Total = 106,026
3 Series 99,602
5 Series [without 6 Series of 8,208] @ 56,798
Total = 156,400
C Class 81,697
E Class [without CLS of 8,065] @ 65,171
Total = 146,868
Thus, even with the ES sedan included, and considering how much cheaper the three Lexus models are relative to their German counterparts, Lexus still trails BM and Benz by a long way.
It helps to have not just more engine & suspension variations, but also more body variations to cater for the different tastes in the mainstream mass market.
Note how the 6 Series & CLS body variations contribute about 8,000+ units each, in sales?
As it stands, I suspect the 3IS won't do well in the mainstream mass market, just like the 22,160 units of the GS against the 56,796 5 Series and 65,171 E Classes.
Even when we take the ES into account, it's still 106k ES/S/GS versus 157k 3/5 Series, and 146k C/E Classes.
The mass market has a more conservative taste, and not so radical.
Sales ultimately increases the profitability to pour back into R&D, and without solid R&D, the company faces a bleak future with delayed 8 speed gear boxes etc etc.
Interestingly, did the GS fail to meet its minimum target of 2k per month?
It's one thing to design for enthusiasts; it's another thing to design for the mass public.
Sales are all about the tastes of the mass market...
However, I suspect that the base 3IS is too sporty, or too radical for the mass public.
Look at this BMW forum below, at see how other people view our 3IS, and they are a significantly bigger group than us: http://www.f30post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=789893
Btw, one rough way to take into account the effect of the ES on IS and GS sales is to total the sales of all 3 models up for the USA in 2012:
ES 56,158
IS 27,708
GS 22,160
Total = 106,026
3 Series 99,602
5 Series [without 6 Series of 8,208] @ 56,798
Total = 156,400
C Class 81,697
E Class [without CLS of 8,065] @ 65,171
Total = 146,868
Thus, even with the ES sedan included, and considering how much cheaper the three Lexus models are relative to their German counterparts, Lexus still trails BM and Benz by a long way.
It helps to have not just more engine & suspension variations, but also more body variations to cater for the different tastes in the mainstream mass market.
Note how the 6 Series & CLS body variations contribute about 8,000+ units each, in sales?
As it stands, I suspect the 3IS won't do well in the mainstream mass market, just like the 22,160 units of the GS against the 56,796 5 Series and 65,171 E Classes.
Even when we take the ES into account, it's still 106k ES/S/GS versus 157k 3/5 Series, and 146k C/E Classes.
The mass market has a more conservative taste, and not so radical.
Sales ultimately increases the profitability to pour back into R&D, and without solid R&D, the company faces a bleak future with delayed 8 speed gear boxes etc etc.
Interestingly, did the GS fail to meet its minimum target of 2k per month?
It's one thing to design for enthusiasts; it's another thing to design for the mass public.
Sales are all about the tastes of the mass market...
Last edited by spwolf; 01-10-13 at 02:38 PM.
01-10-13, 02:41 PM
#307
Same here., I like everything except the back. lately like the new camry front., 3IS rear are inspired by Honda/Acura to me., Toyota and Honda are creeping in together IMO
01-10-13, 02:45 PM
#308
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Now that we have seen what the F Sport looks like, we can roughly predict the shape of the base model.
However, I suspect that the base 3IS is too sporty, or too radical for the mass public.
Look at this BMW forum below, at see how other people view our 3IS, and they are a significantly bigger group than us: http://www.f30post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=789893
Btw, one rough way to take into account the effect of the ES on IS and GS sales is to total the sales of all 3 models up for the USA in 2012:
ES 56,158
IS 27,708
GS 22,160
Total = 106,026
3 Series 99,602
5 Series [without 6 Series of 8,208] @ 56,798
Total = 156,400
C Class 81,697
E Class [without CLS of 8,065] @ 65,171
Total = 146,868
Thus, even with the ES sedan included, and considering how much cheaper the three Lexus models are relative to their German counterparts, Lexus still trails BM and Benz by a long way.
It helps to have not just more engine & suspension variations, but also more body variations to cater for the different tastes in the mainstream mass market.
Note how the 6 Series & CLS body variations contribute about 8,000+ units each, in sales?
As it stands, I suspect the 3IS won't do well in the mainstream mass market, just like the 22,160 units of the GS against the 56,796 5 Series and 65,171 E Classes.
Even when we take the ES into account, it's still 106k ES/S/GS versus 157k 3/5 Series, and 146k C/E Classes.
The mass market has a more conservative taste, and not so radical.
Sales ultimately increases the profitability to pour back into R&D, and without solid R&D, the company faces a bleak future with delayed 8 speed gear boxes etc etc.
Interestingly, did the GS fail to meet its minimum target of 2k per month?
It's one thing to design for enthusiasts; it's another thing to design for the mass public.
Sales are all about the tastes of the mass market...
However, I suspect that the base 3IS is too sporty, or too radical for the mass public.
Look at this BMW forum below, at see how other people view our 3IS, and they are a significantly bigger group than us: http://www.f30post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=789893
Btw, one rough way to take into account the effect of the ES on IS and GS sales is to total the sales of all 3 models up for the USA in 2012:
ES 56,158
IS 27,708
GS 22,160
Total = 106,026
3 Series 99,602
5 Series [without 6 Series of 8,208] @ 56,798
Total = 156,400
C Class 81,697
E Class [without CLS of 8,065] @ 65,171
Total = 146,868
Thus, even with the ES sedan included, and considering how much cheaper the three Lexus models are relative to their German counterparts, Lexus still trails BM and Benz by a long way.
It helps to have not just more engine & suspension variations, but also more body variations to cater for the different tastes in the mainstream mass market.
Note how the 6 Series & CLS body variations contribute about 8,000+ units each, in sales?
As it stands, I suspect the 3IS won't do well in the mainstream mass market, just like the 22,160 units of the GS against the 56,796 5 Series and 65,171 E Classes.
Even when we take the ES into account, it's still 106k ES/S/GS versus 157k 3/5 Series, and 146k C/E Classes.
The mass market has a more conservative taste, and not so radical.
Sales ultimately increases the profitability to pour back into R&D, and without solid R&D, the company faces a bleak future with delayed 8 speed gear boxes etc etc.
Interestingly, did the GS fail to meet its minimum target of 2k per month?
It's one thing to design for enthusiasts; it's another thing to design for the mass public.
Sales are all about the tastes of the mass market...
01-10-13, 02:45 PM
#309
well 2012 was the year when IS and ES were on its last leg, and GS wasnt full year either.... ES alone will sell 80k next year at least, maybe more and IS should double month vs month... so they will reach the germans. And thats without new coupes and wagon that is coming.
However, by the same token, we must remember that the 2007 C Class is aging, and look at how popular it is; a new C Class is due in 2014!
Meanwhile the 2009 E Class, 2010 5 Series is mid-life.
Only the 3 Series is new for 2012...
01-10-13, 02:54 PM
#310
Well, most people buy car for the badge not for the value. I asked about 20 people, most of them prefer BMW and MB over Lexus and Infiniti,, heck they pick BMW over Aston Martin and Porsche because they neither do understand the philosophy of the cars, nor other badges beside BMW or MB. They didn't even see the pictures of those cars before evening making decision. Look doesn't really have much to do with sale. Most BMW fans will hate anything Japan especially Lexus/Toyota. Look at the F30 board, they even make fun of LFA when their BMW don't even have anything to compete. Another example outside of automotive world is Apple and their iSO... you know where it's going.
Styling is one of the many facets of the product itself.
If a company continually churns out good products, with good styling, space, engine, chassis etc etc, it creates a name for itself.
On the otherhand, if a company continually churns out bad products, containing bland styling etc etc, it makes a lesser name for itself.
For example, back in 1997 Palm Pilot was hot.
By mid 2005, Blackberry made a name for itself.
Now, it's Apple.
Names are created by the product; there is no magic as some people think.
Companies rise and fall.
GM & Ford use to be two of the most profitable companies.
Later Toyota.
Now, it's VW.
Motorola has gone, ditto Nokia & Sony; now it's Samsung and Apple...
01-10-13, 02:59 PM
#311
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@ peteharvey
I remember a friend asked my about Pontiac G8 back in 2008, and he thought it was a BMW because it had kidney grill. After he found out that it wasn't a BMW, he was like "it looks nice, but a BMW would look better." He even asked what Pontiac was from, and I was like "You live in the US for almost 5 years, and you don't know what is Pontiac?" I also see majority of international students at my school drive only Mercedes Benz. The reason was that the three pointed star is known as the most prestige badge in their countries. They think Lexus as leather wrapped Toyota and will never look at one because they can buy a cheaper Toyota.
I remember a friend asked my about Pontiac G8 back in 2008, and he thought it was a BMW because it had kidney grill. After he found out that it wasn't a BMW, he was like "it looks nice, but a BMW would look better." He even asked what Pontiac was from, and I was like "You live in the US for almost 5 years, and you don't know what is Pontiac?" I also see majority of international students at my school drive only Mercedes Benz. The reason was that the three pointed star is known as the most prestige badge in their countries. They think Lexus as leather wrapped Toyota and will never look at one because they can buy a cheaper Toyota.
Last edited by cino; 01-10-13 at 03:16 PM. Reason: typo
01-10-13, 03:06 PM
#312
Remember when the 4GS was first released last year? There were a small number of complaints mainly relating to the bland rear end styling.
However, the number of posts relating to the new 3IS styling just in the last two days or so, is quite phenomenal...
However, the number of posts relating to the new 3IS styling just in the last two days or so, is quite phenomenal...
01-10-13, 03:08 PM
#313
Yes, the GS & ES are fresh, and the IS brand new; it'll be interesting to see what happens in 2013.
However, by the same token, we must remember that the 2007 C Class is aging, and look at how popular it is; a new C Class is due in 2014!
Meanwhile the 2009 E Class, 2010 5 Series is mid-life.
Only the 3 Series is new for 2012...
However, by the same token, we must remember that the 2007 C Class is aging, and look at how popular it is; a new C Class is due in 2014!
Meanwhile the 2009 E Class, 2010 5 Series is mid-life.
Only the 3 Series is new for 2012...
I bet you will see at least 50% increase in the numbers you posted here when it comes to IS+ES+GS.
Its not only the freshness, but Yen is dropping so bigger play with prices and variations. It dropped 15% in past 40 days... thats 15% extra for Lexus to play with. While Lexus had big incentives on GS, BMW and MB had 50% bigger incentives on average :-).
Then in 2014 we will see coupe selling and possibly 300h's will arrive too... So expect significant increase in sales.
01-10-13, 03:10 PM
#314
it is good but only if front lights look good in person... if they do, it will sell big... I for one, a big L fan, that planned to get IS for sure, am now thinking to see if it ends up looking good in person.
01-10-13, 03:13 PM
#315
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The badge/name is actually based on the reputation/history of the product.
Styling is one of the many facets of the product itself.
If a company continually churns out good products, with good styling, space, engine, chassis etc etc, it creates a name for itself.
On the otherhand, if a company continually churns out bad products, containing bland styling etc etc, it makes a lesser name for itself.
For example, back in 1997 Palm Pilot was hot.
By mid 2005, Blackberry made a name for itself.
Now, it's Apple.
Names are created by the product; there is no magic as some people think.
Companies rise and fall.
GM & Ford use to be two of the most profitable companies.
Later Toyota.
Now, it's VW.
Motorola has gone, ditto Nokia & Sony; now it's Samsung and Apple...
Styling is one of the many facets of the product itself.
If a company continually churns out good products, with good styling, space, engine, chassis etc etc, it creates a name for itself.
On the otherhand, if a company continually churns out bad products, containing bland styling etc etc, it makes a lesser name for itself.
For example, back in 1997 Palm Pilot was hot.
By mid 2005, Blackberry made a name for itself.
Now, it's Apple.
Names are created by the product; there is no magic as some people think.
Companies rise and fall.
GM & Ford use to be two of the most profitable companies.
Later Toyota.
Now, it's VW.
Motorola has gone, ditto Nokia & Sony; now it's Samsung and Apple...
Same goes to mobile industry. No one can name 3 things Apple really invented, but still think Apple invented everything. That's because of the marketing... "Look what we invented" said Steve Jobs.