spwolf

yeah... Lexus said that non f-sport will have different grille (smaller).

SNiiP3R

iTrader: (3)

I remember saying that the rear lights looked like Sonata.... but I after I drove the 4GS, I stopped thinking about it and decided to buy it

Joeb427

iTrader: (1)

I said the rear looks like the Sonata and still it does.Dislike the over sized integrated exhaust ports,bland side design but still have one in my driveway.
The interior is fabulous and I love driving it.Like it even more today then last month when I got it.

Slash300zx

Not me, I got a 2011 F-Sport and even though I love it, I'll be trading in as soon as the 2014 comes out... can't wait a couple more years for the Is-F... although by that time I probably can trade again The perps of having a lease is I can change cars almost every year if I really wanted

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

i don't disagree, but i said the discussion then, and here, is not about whether the GS then or IS now will not do well in the market, it's a discussion of their looks mostly.

based on reading this entire thread, i'd say the majority opinion is that the interior is great, the exterior not really great, and that it will sell great!

SW17LS

But the discussion of how they look translates into how they will sell. Look at all of Pete's posts with rolls of sales data, etc, plenty of discussions about the car being "too radical" to appeal to people, etc.

spwolf

i am actually surprised at how many people like exterior - namely those front lights. Here, i would say most like it.

Joe Z

iTrader: (10)

Glad to hear your enjoying it Nigel..!!

We will accomplish the same on this 3rd Gen IS350

Send me the details on those parts ASAP, so I can finish up that project as well..

Regards,

Joe Z

Wunko

I love my 2011 IS and the F-Sport package sold me on the 2IS. I'll admit the 3IS does make the 2IS look older now. It's certainly aggressive and it's good Lexus is doing that since many out there call Lexus "boring".The 3IS will take some getting used to but I'd definitely consider it if there was a mid-generation refresh or engine change. I'm not an early adopter consumer who gets the latest stuff which is one of the reasons why I ended up with a 2011 IS instead of the 2006 IS.

dojoman

iTrader: (5)

I don't know how many female buyers are going to be turned away by the new design. I do see a lot of female 2IS drivers on the road.

spwolf

i do feel that my 2IS is older car now... more so than few months ago. While very nice, even beautiful design, it is aging for sure.

Joe Z

iTrader: (10)

As the 2013 IS's have already hit the showroom floor end of last quarter..
The exiting 2nd Gen IS has been selling for over 8 years now...

~ Joe Z

peteharvey

Look at the 4GS performance last year 2012 in the USA:
January 93
February 2396
March 2558
April 2006
May 1996
June 2020
July 1662
August 1831
September 1454
October 1521
November 1826
December 2796

Let's forget January 2012's old discontinued 3GS sales.
From February onwards, Lexus only reached its biased low set sales target in 5 of the very first and strongest 11 months.
In 6 of those 11 months, they failed to reach their monthly target of 2,000 units.

At 22,160 in it's debut year of 2012, the 4GS is selling at only 2/3rd of their own previous 3GS predecessor's performance of 33,457 units in 2005.

Sometimes you'll hear the Lexus-biased far right quote that the market is not as good now, as it was when the 3GS debuted in 2005, but then look at the competition; regardless of market excuses, the competition is doing fine presently.
In 2012, the more expensive 5 Series is romping away at 56,798.
Moreso, the even more expensive E Class at 65,171 units.
These figures do not include the 6 Series and CLS which sell at 8,000+ units each.

Of course, most of the sales success above is attributed to:
1) the name/badge/image/reputation for quality - which can override what is a genuinely inferior car.
2) body style, engine, and suspension variations. Note how the 6 Series & CLS sell an additional 8k+ units each per year?
Marketing helps, but on its own, it obviously won't get the 4GS from 22k units to the E Class's 65k units, and the 4GS is fresh, while the 2009 E Class is already 3 to 4 years old.


You have the far left like Bimmerfest that is biased towards BMW, and then you have the far right that is biased towards Lexus like dseag2 etc; afterall, this is a Lexus Forum.
I often find myself reading one set of biased views, against another set of biased views, with each person claiming that their opinion is better than their opponent's opinions; worse they even actively try to put their opponent's opinions down.
I prefer to be neutral and just analyse the data.
You'll notice that both sides are good, but in different ways.
You'll notice that both sides have their good and bad points.
You'll notice that both sides have more good, than bad points; otherwise we wouldn't have a car at all.

I own several Lexus models, and each has its strengths and weaknesses, but thankfully, there are more strengths.
A far right Lexus biased person will make out that his Lexus is perfect with no weaknesses at all.
When we talk about weaknesses, we are not saying that the car is bad, and that we won't buy it, but what we are saying is that we want the manufacturer to constructively improve.


With the 3 Series, the design is targeted at the mass market, and that's a major factor in its sales success.
With the new 3IS, if you read properly, I have actually NOT said that it is bad, but I have said that it is good, in a different way.
The mass market is more conservative in tastes, and wants a roomy and comfortable car.
The enthusiast's market is open to more radical styling, and doesn't mind compromises in space, nor a firm ride, etc etc.

The 3IS is targeted towards the niche enthusiast's market.
How this affects sales, only God knows.
I have no crystal ball.
I can only speculate that it will be a tough year for the 3IS in its new design to sell?
Put your bets down now.
Let's see what happens by this time next year.
It's also actually a bit too early to tell, because if the 3IS has a roomy rear, with a comfortable ride, it could do very well...


I have previously constructively recommended that Lexus produce two different body styles; one for the mass market, and a second for the niche enthusiast's market.
Right now, Toyota has variations of the Lexus 4GS in several different body styles including the Crown and Mark X!
Why not have two body styles for the 4GS and actually export it?
A sedan for the mass market, and a 4 door coupe for the niche enthusiast's market?

Toyota has the money to make the 3IS is at least a second body style.
Many years ago, I researched the Toyota Japanese website, and I'm sure they had several compact rear wheel drive body style variations of the Toyota Altezza 1IS.
A second body style would make conservative low set sales targets so much easier to attain, and it would greatly contribute to the proliferation in sales relative to its competitors...

Mr. Burns

The IS has ALWAYS been an original design. The 2IS even at the end of its life was already inspiring carbon clones like the Acura ILX. The 1IS was responsible for the popularization of clear-lens taillights. The 3IS is no different. Like all IS before it, it's a unique and forward-looking design. It doesn't try to be anything else, nor does it make any apologies for what it is.

SW17LS

And...my head exploded.

Lexus' goal for the 4GS was 25,000 units, thats well documented. They're there. It doesn't matter that the E Class sold 65k units, or the 5 series sold 54k units...what matters is that Lexus achieved its goal in sales. Even if there were demand for 65,000 GS's...Lexus doesn't even have the capacity to produce that many cars.

There are people in my industry who do more volume of business than me. I have my goals, they have theirs. My goals are less. Doesn't mean I'm not successful.

Lexus is doing fine, they regained the title of top selling luxury marque, Toyota regained the title of top selling automaker after the Tsunami. They have dealerships full of fresh product to sell. They're doing well, and the new IS is going to do well.