Originally Posted by Vroomin350

Not really, I just bought my 2012 Fsport and if I liked the 2014 I would just go and get it the first day it comes out. What makes you think someone who could afford to buy a 2011 or 2012 cant afford a 2013/2014???

People really DON'T like the car because they don't like the car, and a lot of you need to stop trying to come up with reasons as to why people don't like the car.


Its ugly in pictures, yes, not everyone likes the car, it isn't beautiful in any way except the interior. Will my mind change once I see it in person? Perhaps and I hope so.

Originally Posted by MashinA

Never said they cant afford it I said its not a wise financial decision to have just bought a new car than turn around a year later and buy another. Most people dont do that. And yes it is beautiful and doesnt look ugly in the pictures at all...

Originally Posted by Vroomin350

And you better not trade that beautiful car anytime soon either!


Depending on whether you leased or bought, 1 year later is when you have usually made enough payments to be at a dead even wash, meaning NOT upside down. Anything forward of 1 year the car starts to depreciate even more then it already did. Yes, when you continue to pay after 1 year the payoff amount starts to decrease but so is the value of the car.

It's much more complex but that was a quick breakdown ..

Originally Posted by ntocamping

Not sure where you heard this but the worse thing you can do is trade after 1 year. Forget being upside down and assume you paid cash. A car loses more value the second it is driven off the lot than any year after that. If you are justifying not being upside down because you put enough down that is not the same as making a smart decision to trade after 1 year. It just means you put more down than someone else but you still lost more value then you will in subsequent years. A car depreciates the most in the first 3 years. After that it tends to loose much less. Why do you think the majority of leases are for 3 years and not 1.

Don't mean to get off topic but needed to clarify this comment for others who actually might think this is good logic.

Originally Posted by ntocamping

Not sure where you heard this but the worse thing you can do is trade after 1 year. Forget being upside down and assume you paid cash. A car loses more value the second it is driven off the lot than any year after that. If you are justifying not being upside down because you put enough down that is not the same as making a smart decision to trade after 1 year. It just means you put more down than someone else but you still lost more value then you will in subsequent years. A car depreciates the most in the first 3 years. After that it tends to loose much less. Why do you think the majority of leases are for 3 years and not 1.

Don't mean to get off topic but needed to clarify this comment for others who actually might think this is good logic.

Originally Posted by Vroomin350

For example, if when you first bought the car you were hit with a high interest rate, your best bet is making your payments on time and coming back for a new car at the special APR (0.9-1.9%) etc..

Trading in a car at a dealership is ALWAYS a bad idea ANYHOW, but if you really wanted to, the 1 year mark will be the best time. The ONLY scenario where trading a car 1 year later is HIGHLY unbeneficial is if you paid cash at the time of delivery.

Originally Posted by bitkahuna

we'll just agree to disagree. looks are subjective, and many cars that appear fugly to me have sold very well.

i'm looking forward to seeing the non f-sport IS (sorry joe z, can't tell hardly at all from those camo'ed ones) and seeing more of all kinds in colors other than white.

Originally Posted by spwolf

Joe Z has a lot better imagination than me... Mr Burns too.

:-).

To me it looks all the same, with different grille insert.

Originally Posted by peteharvey

Look at the 4GS performance last year 2012 in the USA:
January 93
February 2396
March 2558
April 2006
May 1996
June 2020
July 1662
August 1831
September 1454
October 1521
November 1826
December 2796

Let's forget January 2012's old discontinued 3GS sales.
From February onwards, Lexus only reached its biased low set sales target in 5 of the very first and strongest 11 months.
In 6 of those 11 months, they failed to reach their monthly target of 2,000 units.

At 22,160 in it's debut year of 2012, the 4GS is selling at only 2/3rd of their own previous 3GS predecessor's performance of 33,457 units in 2005.

Sometimes you'll hear the Lexus-biased far right quote that the market is not as good now, as it was when the 3GS debuted in 2005, but then look at the competition; regardless of market excuses, the competition is doing fine presently.
In 2012, the more expensive 5 Series is romping away at 56,798.
Moreso, the even more expensive E Class at 65,171 units.
These figures do not include the 6 Series and CLS which sell at 8,000+ units each.

Of course, most of the sales success above is attributed to:
1) the name/badge/image/reputation for quality - which can override what is a genuinely inferior car.
2) body style, engine, and suspension variations. Note how the 6 Series & CLS sell an additional 8k+ units each per year?
Marketing helps, but on its own, it obviously won't get the 4GS from 22k units to the E Class's 65k units, and the 4GS is fresh, while the 2009 E Class is already 3 to 4 years old.


You have the far left like Bimmerfest that is biased towards BMW, and then you have the far right that is biased towards Lexus like dseag2 etc; afterall, this is a Lexus Forum.
I often find myself reading one set of biased views, against another set of biased views, with each person claiming that their opinion is better than their opponent's opinions; worse they even actively try to put their opponent's opinions down.
I prefer to be neutral and just analyse the data.
You'll notice that both sides are good, but in different ways.
You'll notice that both sides have their good and bad points.
You'll notice that both sides have more good, than bad points; otherwise we wouldn't have a car at all.

I own several Lexus models, and each has its strengths and weaknesses, but thankfully, there are more strengths.
A far right Lexus biased person will make out that his Lexus is perfect with no weaknesses at all.
When we talk about weaknesses, we are not saying that the car is bad, and that we won't buy it, but what we are saying is that we want the manufacturer to constructively improve.


With the 3 Series, the design is targeted at the mass market, and that's a major factor in its sales success.
With the new 3IS, if you read properly, I have actually NOT said that it is bad, but I have said that it is good, in a different way.
The mass market is more conservative in tastes, and wants a roomy and comfortable car.
The enthusiast's market is open to more radical styling, and doesn't mind compromises in space, nor a firm ride, etc etc.

The 3IS is targeted towards the niche enthusiast's market.
How this affects sales, only God knows.
I have no crystal ball.
I can only speculate that it will be a tough year for the 3IS in its new design to sell?
Put your bets down now.
Let's see what happens by this time next year.
It's also actually a bit too early to tell, because if the 3IS has a roomy rear, with a comfortable ride, it could do very well...


I have previously constructively recommended that Lexus produce two different body styles; one for the mass market, and a second for the niche enthusiast's market.
Right now, Toyota has variations of the Lexus 4GS in several different body styles including the Crown and Mark X!
Why not have two body styles for the 4GS and actually export it?
A sedan for the mass market, and a 4 door coupe for the niche enthusiast's market?

Toyota has the money to make the 3IS is at least a second body style.
Many years ago, I researched the Toyota Japanese website, and I'm sure they had several compact rear wheel drive body style variations of the Toyota Altezza 1IS.
A second body style would make conservative low set sales targets so much easier to attain, and it would greatly contribute to the proliferation in sales relative to its competitors...