SW17LS

But what you're missing is that the new 8AT changes the characteristics of the existing motor to such a degree that it may indeed feel like a new motor...

EthanV

How about at least 7,500rpm 6 speeds and more torque? That will make the world perfect. Lexus just not wanting to put more money to it and using the same engine. Im just afraid they will update the engine in the next couple years.

spwolf

well, i guess I would agree with you if i had IS250 :-). Because that thing is slow... but I had GS350 and it wasnt slow, I was very happy with engine and the 8 speed will be nice addition too I guess.

4TehNguyen

iTrader: (1)

IS250 doesnt have the torque to utilize an 8 speed

LexFather

That is not correct. The BMW 320 coming this year has an 8 speed and has 180hp and 200lbs of torque.

ydooby

Huh? If anything it's engines with low torque that need more gears because they help them stay in power (tons of economy cars are switching to CVT because of this). Engines with more torque on the other hand can often get away with using less gears because torque is abundant even at sub-optimal engine speeds (last-gen AMG was a good example).

Lexus simply dropped the ball on the IS250 here. Even the BMW 316i AT now comes with 8 speeds despite its mere 162 lb-ft of torque.

happy1977

Ok thanks. I'll wait for a year or 2 and hear people's feedback before jumping in on this.

EthanV

You are going out of subject and now start talking about IS250 Be more mature can you!

SW17LS

Dude...chill out.

peteharvey

Toyota has been in financial trouble in recent years with the recall of the Camry accelerator pedal floor mat affair, and the Tsunami as well.
Thus not a lot of cash to spend on major developments.
So we have delayed 8 speed gearboxes.
I'm sure the 2.5 V6 will get an 8 speed unit, or better still - a CVT in time, coz CVT's favor engines with less torque.
A CVT is a costly piece of equipment.

Furthermore, the 2.5 and 3.5 V6's are nearing the peak/ceiling in their development, so improvements are only small and incremental.
There is the ceramic adiabatic insulating heat resistant cylinder liners to come, eg http://www.sof.or.jp/en/activities/pdf/06_07.pdf, and electromagnetic valves which are much more adjustable for both valve timing and valve lift than the current belt/chain overhead camshaft design.
Both these technologies can more markedly improve efficiency of the internal combustion engine.
The electromagnetic variable valve timing will give you the rise in red line RPM that you are after.
Normally, at hi revs, the conventional mechanical valves will not follow the cam's profile, so the valve loses its timing, hence an early red line for large engine capacities with heavy valves, and heavy reciprocating masses.

Meanwhile, a simple and relatively cheap way of improving driveline efficiency is to add another set of epicyclic planetary gears, and a wet multi-plate pack of clutch bands to hydraulically lock the gears into place, for another two gear ratios - albeit for a small improvement only.
Engineers say that the maximum number of gears theoretically possible is around 10 or 11 speeds, before the driveline efficiency starts to decline and go backwards.
With respect to the maximum number of gears possible, engineers also remind us of the law of diminishing returns, where 10 gears won't provide that much benefit.

A supercharger or turbo can give major gains, but both designs have their pros and cons.
Even petrol-electric hybrids have their pros and cons.
Apparently, by 2014 or 2016 or whatever, newer more stringent emission regulations kick in for diesels, such that diesels will lose power, increase fuel consumption, and have increased manufacturing costs to boot.

The Mazda Felix Wankel rotary engine has recently ceased production due to new stringent emission regulations.
The turbo-jet engine doesn't have much practical bottom end torque for motor vehicle use.
The turbo-prop engine has more bottom end punch than the turbo-jet engine, but still not as much bottom end torque as the conventional internal combustion and electric motors.
The turbo-fan engine is in-between the turbo-jet and turbo-prop for torque and engine speeds.
The electric motor with Nd rare earth magnets is slick, with powerful bottom end punch, hi top end revs, and doesn't need to idle, however it is dying for a battery breakthrough.

Presently, there simply isn't a perfect engine design.
So just a few designs to choose from, and be happy with...

peteharvey

I've traditionally found the GS suspension to be softer and more compliant than the ES, yet the GS still out-handles the pants off the ES with both faster changes in direction, and higher terminal grip and lateral acceleration!!
This includes the 1998-2005 2GS, the 2005-12 3GS and the 2012-2019 4GS versus the 1992-96 2ES, 1996-01 3ES, and the 2001-06 4ES.
Unfortunately, I have been too lazy to drive the 2006-12 5ES, and the current 2012 6ES, so I cannot comment on the latest ES's.
However, the GS range has not only softer springing, but softer damping than the ES as well!
Yet, the GS - thanks to it's RWD, more even weight distribution, and multi-link front rear suspension that keeps the wheels more perpendicular to the ground - out-handles the pants off the ES everytime - so far from my recollection.

As far as the IS goes?
The 2000-06 1IS was very small light and firmly sprung, with go-kart like or Mazda MX-5/Miata-like handling.
My 2006-13 2IS is bigger, heavier, yet still quite firmly sprung. The ride did improve a little, but the handling diminished markedly as well.
Apparently, facelifted versions of the 2IS esp 2012 models are rumoured to have a much improved ride???
I can only pray that the new 2013 3IS rides well.
With a 70mm longer wheelbase, and 50 more pounds, the new 3IS should at least ride a little better.
Meanwhile, the 2nd generation electrically assisted power steering should give more feel/feedback.
My 1st generation electric power steering in the 2006 2IS felt a bit like an Sega/Atari video arcade machine; there wasn't much feel/feedback...

m34door

Black is hot

SW17LS

Toyota has not been in "financial trouble". They may have delayed the roll out of new models due to mainly the tsunami, but theres a difference between making prudent financial moves to avoid being in financial trouble, and being in financial trouble. Toyota is a very well run, well capitalized company and was never in "financial trouble" throughout all of these issues.

CVT's are loathed in enthusiast circles and by automotive journalists, I doubt it'll be a CVT.

This is really not true. I've driven the ES for the past 10 years, have driven several 2GS's, 3GS's and now have a 4GS. The fact that the GS is firmer at low speeds when going over speed bumps and such is proof that it is more firmly sprung than the ES. The 2GS and 3GS were certainly looser than the 4GS, but the ES models of that era were looser as well. My 5ES was much more rigid than my 4ES.

The GS however has a more sophisticated suspension setup, and has a flatter, more controlled ride at speed than the ES.

Of course the GS outhandles the ES, its RWD, the ES has 65/35 weight distribution and is FWD, and the GS has stiffer springs, anti-roll bars and amore rigid chassis.

natnut

Talk about furthest from the truth.

Toyota has the biggest cash reserves of of ALL automobile manufacturers and has the second biggest cash reserves of of ALL companies on the planet :

Link : http://www.autoblog.com/2011/01/23/s...cash-reserves/

However, Peteharvey is close to the truth when he says that the GS is able to have softer dampers due to its more rigid chassis and still have outstanding handling. The 4th Gen GS has lower viscosity oil in its shock absorbers and has aluminium control arms to reduce unsprung weight. This leads to a suspension which is lighter stronger and responds faster to road irregularities --simultaneously improving BOTH contact patch on the road (grip and handling) and ride comfort at the same time.

This is also improved further by the adaptive variable suspension (AVS). This AVS is not a "dumb" suspension that is fixed in whatever mode it is set but is continuously adjusting the shock stiffness to road conditions on-the-fly.

Example, during my test drive of the 4GS, the ride was firm and smooth on normal roads. The Lexus salesman wanted to show off the advantage of the AVS and told me to drive over a large speed bump about 3 feet broad at 50km/h (Drive mode was still set to normal). The GS sailed over the speed bump without a ruffle.

Since the 3IS suspension is carried over largely unchanged from the 4GS, I expect the 3IS to have similar ride-handling characteristics.

m34door

Does the IS 350 come with awd?