flipside909

Currently yes, and there will be IS 350 AWD for 3rd Gen.

Mr. Burns

Carry on.

peteharvey

The 3IS and the 3 Series certainly do look similar in profile, however I find that all manufacturers copy off each other these days.


On the topic of the all new 3IS and how it is affected by Toyota finance.

Cash reserves?
Cash reserves is the amount of liquid money, either in cash itself, or in short term low interest rate investments, as opposed to assets, property, and plant and equipment - which take more time to sell for cash.
Cash reserves is only one part of the equation.


Financial trouble?
Toyota might not exactly be in financial trouble, but financially, things are not so rosy for Toyota lately. Know what I mean? Read here:

Toyota worldwide sales:
2007 9,479,754
2008 9,225,236
2009 7,234,439
2010 8,557,231
2011 7,858,091
2012 Not yet available

Interesting? What do you see???

Have you read articles like this?
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...81524J20120207
"(Reuters) - Toyota Motor Corp raised its full-year profit forecast by more than a third as it cuts costs, trims spending and expects Japanese government schemes to boost sales, though the guidance was still some way below analysts' expectations.
Japan's No.1 automaker now expects operating profit - earnings from its core operations - for the year to end-March [2012] of 270 billion yen ($3.5 billion), a drop of 42 percent from last year, and lagging a consensus forecast of 331 billion yen from 23 analysts surveyed by Thomson Reuters I/B/E/S".

"In 2010, the Toyota ranked first in units produced globally, with 8.6 million units. Market share based on OICA 2010 global total of 77,743,862. For the first half of 2011, Toyota had fallen to third place, with GM first and Volkswagen second. The OICA list is usually published in late July or early August of the following year.
Toyota's financial unit had asked for an emergency loan from a state-backed lender on March 16, 2009, with reports putting the figure at more than US$3 billion. It said the international financial situation was squeezing its business, forcing it to ask for an emergency loan from the Japan Bank for International Cooperation. This was the first time the state-backed bank has been asked to lend to a Japanese car manufacturer.
On May 8, 2009, Toyota reported a record annual net loss of US$4.2 billion, making it the latest automobile maker to be severely affected by the global financial crisis that started in 2007. On March 31, 2011, the Toyota Factory in Onnaing, France, was hit by a strike of several hundred workers asking for more pay".



Not so rosy lately. Is that putting it a bit more accurately?
You see how lately how Toyota has had to cut costs, and trim spending etc?
Hence, essentially carry-over engines, with no 8 speed gearbox for the 4GS, and no 8 speed for the 2.5 V6 etc etc.
In time, the 4GS will certainly get an 8 speed unit, and who knows what gearbox is in store for the 2.5 V6?
You know what I mean???

Xanadu350

Six months seems so long to wait.

peteharvey

Could that explain why there is no monster bottom end torque GS450h with a CVT gearbox and in F Sport trim for enthusiasts in the USA???

spwolf

Well, 3IS and 2IS look like they have exactly the same profile. So it is not like anything changed in 3IS in side profile.

So that led me to say that 2IS and F30 have similar profile, and 2IS is car from 2005 - as in that F30 copied 2IS.... on the other hand at tha time, flip told me thats simply not true in real life and once I have seen F30 on road, I agree, they dont look anything alike.

ydooby

The transmission used in the GS450h, along with all the Toyota hybrids, is not CVT. Toyota simply shouldn't have called it "e-CVT" in the first place, as it confuses people and makes people think it has anything to do with CVT, when in reality it's a power split device wth a fixed gear ratio that only achieves the effect of a CVT through an electric motor mediating the output through a planetary gearset.

spwolf

you certainly dont follow car industry Pete, lol.

I dont know where to start, I dont think i need to actually explain too much, just read more articles on why did Toyota's stock value go up by 50% in last 12 months and you will understand what i didnt write.

In short, 2011 was Tsunami year, and 2012 is record year for Toyota with 10 million sales and investors backed them up with almost 50% raise in share price, with Toyota's value being almost 3x of GM, it is the most valuable car company in the world, by far.

natnut

Peteharvey's detailed recounting of Toyota's setbacks in 2009 and 2010 is nice and all. Still doesn't mean much when as of Right Now, Toyota has the most cash reserves of any automaker, $48 billion to be exact. Which means that his assertion that Toyota is in any financial trouble CURRENTLY is dead wrong no matter how much he drags up 2009/2010. I'll not derail the thread further and leave it as that.

peteharvey

Have you ever compared the ride of a Porsche 911, to the ride of a Subaru Impreza WRX etc?
Notice how the Porsche is compliant, while the Subaru is as hard as a rock?
Compliance, and the ability to follow the contours of the road, to prevent the car from skittling around corners - is the mark of a great chassis.
Notice how many prefer the compliant chassis of the M3, over the hard chassis of the Sledgehammer C63 and IS-F?


The firmness at low speeds over speed bumps, that you feel is possibly due to:
1) the lower profile, shorter and more rigid side walls of the GS tires, over the ES tires.
Both the base model GS and ES are 17", but the GS is a lower 50% profile, to the ES 55% profile.

2) also check tire pressures, the GS will often use higher tire pressures than the ES.

3) MacPherson Struts and "Stiction".
The ES is based on the Camry/Avalon.
The Camry/Avalon is used for mass production, hence cost cutting.
Cost cutting leads to the Camry/Avalon using MacPherson Struts, with just a single lower suspension arm only, to cut costs.
MacPherson struts use a strut, where the damper is mounted concentrically inside the coil spring.
However, this concentric mount generates high lateral forces on the damper rod causing friction, or stiction as they say.
This friction/stiction gives rigidity, hence poor initial compliance on the ride over bumps.
Engineers try to reduce the stiction by offsetting the angulation of the axis of the coil springs, to the axis of the dampers.
See the second photo below.




Note how the vertical axis of the coil spring is offset relative to the vertical axis of the strut and damper unit to reduce damper shaft/piston friction/stiction?


4) Wheelbase.
Also remember that the ES uses a shorter wheelbase than the GS, hence lesser ride.
In the past, the ES wheelbase has been significantly shorter than the GS.
The latest 2012 ES has a 2820 mm wheelbase, but it still falls short of the GS's 2850 mm wheelbase.
The shorter wheelbase accentuates the lesser ride of the ES.

5) Sprung Weight.
The ES is 1,610 kg versus the GS @ 1,685 kg.
The higher the sprung weight resting on the suspension, the heavier the car, hence the lower the frequency of oscillations - hence the better the ride.

6) Toyota Camry vs Toyota Windom/Lexus ES Factor.
The Toyota Windom, in other words, the Lexus ES - has always been deliberately designed as a more upmarket, and sportier version of the Toyota Camry.
Hence, the Lexus ES has always deliberately had firmer suspension, with more heavy duty springs, more heavy duty roll bars, and upgraded dampers over the Toyota Camry.


So we must listen to Natnut when he says something along the lines that the base model GS suspension is more compliant than the ES suspension.
The GS is more compliant on the coil springs.
However, take note that the 4GS base suspension does have firmer dampers than any other base model I remember, so the 4GS base model does float less than ever.
I will talk to you more about the tyres, springs, and dampers, and how to identify their relative firmness another time...

peteharvey

Like I already said in post #873, maybe "financial trouble" are not the right words, but financially, it has not been so rosy for Toyota in the past 5 years.
Even in the quotations above, even Toyota themselves have admitted to cost cutting and trimming on spending.
In 2009, Toyota amassed a loss of US$4.2 billion.

Cost cutting.
Carry-over engines.
Delayed 8 speed gearboxes.
They all go hand in hand.

If the cash reserves are so useful, there would be no state backed loans.
There would be no carry-over engines.
No delayed 8 speed gearboxes in the 4GS, to only end up in the 3IS...



Let's put aside how much fixed assets a company has, how much liquid cash a company has, and how much annual profit/loss they net.

At the end of the day, what is important is that if Toyota openly declares cost cutting, and trimming on spending - then do understand how that affects carry-over wheelbases, carry-over engines, and carry-over transmissions, eg in the 4GS, and the 3IS's IS250 gearbox...

peteharvey

Overall, Toyota is still certainly a valuable asset rich company, with high cash reserves!

However, your statement does not explain why Toyota's current micro-economy, where Toyota has said itself that it has had to cost cut and trim spending in recent years.
Notice the effect on carry-over engines, delayed 8 speed gearboxes in the 4GS, to only end up in the 3IS etc.


It is Toyota's financial performance in the recent past that affects the 4GS and all new 3IS that we are about to drive in 6 months.
Your quotation of Toyota's financial performance in 2012 will affect the near future generations of Lexus like the next generation LS etc...

SW17LS

More accurate, the company is not nor has it been in financial trouble. Certainly they have tempered the way that they have moved forward in light of those setbacks, well run companies do that, but Toyota is a hugely successful and valuable brand, to say something is in "financial trouble" is to say that there is some uncertainty about their ability to carry on as they have or to continue to do business...and nobody with any knowledge whatsoever about business or this industry would assign that situation to Toyota.

Chrysler and GM were in financial trouble...Toyota could not be further from that.

For instance, I am in the real estate industry and work for the largest privately owned real estate company in the country. During the economic contraction, we went from 285 offices to 175, 16,000 agents to 9800. In 2012 the brokerage division of our company made a profit for the first time since 2007. Not so rosy, but our company was never in financial trouble because its well run and well capitalized, and we were able to act quickly to anticipate the contraction of our market and change how we do business to suit that.

Many of our competitors were not so fortunate. Well run and capitalized companies can weather a lot before they wind up in financial trouble, Poorly run, poorly capitalized companies cannot.

This is exactly what I said. You said the ES was more compliant and more softly sprung than a GS...and that is just not true.

Also not true. The ES for much of its life has shared all of those components directly with the Camry. From 2002-2006 the ES was if anything, made LESS sporty.

spwolf

You dont know what you are talking about, so please stop. all the information is out there. find it, read it, comprehend it, then come back to discuss it. You are reading a sentence and making up a book around it. You should read books to be able to write few sentences on the subject.

But just to confirm, you are completely wrong on everything you wrote above. This is not a subject of 2014 Lexus IS thread so if you want to discuss it properly and write paragraphs about things you dont understand, please open up new thread and we can talk about it.

Otherwise, it is simply taking up this thread with some silly notions.

peteharvey

The important thing to understand about company financial situation is that Toyota did have difficulties in the recent past, and this translates to cost cutting as Toyota themselves have openly stated, hence carry-over engines, carry-over wheelbases as in the 4GS's case, and delayed 8 speed gearboxes etc.
The forthcoming 3IS is more lucky.
More money may have been spent on the 3IS judging by its 70 mm longer wheelbase, and 8 speed gearbox, however the 3IS still has carry-over 2.5 and 3.5 V6's.
Now, there are posts that complain that the wheelbase of the new 3IS is only 40 mm shorter than the wheelbase of the 4GS!




Can you tell me which post number # where I said the ES was more compliant and more softly sprung than the GS?
It is you - you said it twice. Firstly in your Post #854, then again in your Post #868, you said:




More/less sporty is too broad a description.
Let's talk about spring rates and suspension firmness.

The 2001-06 4ES had firmer springs than the equivalent 2001-06 Camry.
This is deliberate. The Lexus is supposed to be more dynamic than the bread and butter Camry since the original ES250...