Lexus Community Reaction 2006 vs 2014 IS
#16
I had VR6 Jetta and was captivated by the Lexus IS 2006 model. I narrowed down to 3 cars, the BMW 3 series, the infinity G35 coupe and Lexus IS250. The style and Luxury is what I went for and got myself the Lexus. I had always felt that the 2nd generation screamed to be a coupe like style with 4 doors. The 3rd generation does not grab my attention at all. I am in the market for a coupe now and the 3rd generation screams to be a sedan (for me at least).
#17
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Posts: n/a
I remember telling the team in the moderator forum that there will huge growth here and to prepare for it with the 2IS. It was a different direction than the 1IS and clearly worked. Praise was pretty universally positive for the car, the main negatives to people no manual in the 350 and the loss of the 2JZ (no turbo).
I think the biggest thing for the 2IS was how good it looked to most anyone. You had to be a pretty big Lexus hater to not admit that it was a great looking car. The 3IS's bold face is simply not for everyone.
Agree on the engines, we went through the same thing with the 3GS. However we know an IS F is coming and we are still waiting for GS F confirmation.
Also the market in 2005 was not like 2013. There was no strong Audi, there was even no strong Kia/Hyundai. Lexus was in the middle of their decade long sales tear. Now Lexus has not just a C-class to cope with but the new CLA while FWD, is stylish like the IS and going for style fans.
Lexus is really going to have to offer some super strong advertising with the IS as this field is quite crowded compared to 2005/2006.
I think the biggest thing for the 2IS was how good it looked to most anyone. You had to be a pretty big Lexus hater to not admit that it was a great looking car. The 3IS's bold face is simply not for everyone.
Agree on the engines, we went through the same thing with the 3GS. However we know an IS F is coming and we are still waiting for GS F confirmation.
Also the market in 2005 was not like 2013. There was no strong Audi, there was even no strong Kia/Hyundai. Lexus was in the middle of their decade long sales tear. Now Lexus has not just a C-class to cope with but the new CLA while FWD, is stylish like the IS and going for style fans.
Lexus is really going to have to offer some super strong advertising with the IS as this field is quite crowded compared to 2005/2006.
#18
The world has changed from 2005, economically it is different, and the market has changed dramatically, too. There is a lot of competition for these kinds of cars and Lexus is no longer at the top of the heap as far as value and reliability is concerned. I still enjoy my 2006 IS350 and see no great improvement as far as the look (interior or exterior) of the 2014 IS. And most likely the material spec will have been downgraded in some respect in the name of cost and weight savings. Perhaps the 'experience' is different once behind the wheel but I'm not moved at all to even thinking about changing to a 2014 IS. I just don't see a compelling reason for anyone to trade unless they just have to have the 'latest and greatest'.
#19
I remember telling the team in the moderator forum that there will huge growth here and to prepare for it with the 2IS. It was a different direction than the 1IS and clearly worked. Praise was pretty universally positive for the car, the main negatives to people no manual in the 350 and the loss of the 2JZ (no turbo).
I think the biggest thing for the 2IS was how good it looked to most anyone. You had to be a pretty big Lexus hater to not admit that it was a great looking car. The 3IS's bold face is simply not for everyone.
Agree on the engines, we went through the same thing with the 3GS. However we know an IS F is coming and we are still waiting for GS F confirmation.
Also the market in 2005 was not like 2013. There was no strong Audi, there was even no strong Kia/Hyundai. Lexus was in the middle of their decade long sales tear. Now Lexus has not just a C-class to cope with but the new CLA while FWD, is stylish like the IS and going for style fans.
Lexus is really going to have to offer some super strong advertising with the IS as this field is quite crowded compared to 2005/2006.
I think the biggest thing for the 2IS was how good it looked to most anyone. You had to be a pretty big Lexus hater to not admit that it was a great looking car. The 3IS's bold face is simply not for everyone.
Agree on the engines, we went through the same thing with the 3GS. However we know an IS F is coming and we are still waiting for GS F confirmation.
Also the market in 2005 was not like 2013. There was no strong Audi, there was even no strong Kia/Hyundai. Lexus was in the middle of their decade long sales tear. Now Lexus has not just a C-class to cope with but the new CLA while FWD, is stylish like the IS and going for style fans.
Lexus is really going to have to offer some super strong advertising with the IS as this field is quite crowded compared to 2005/2006.
In 2005-06, Japanese cars reached their peak. But, then they just halted and watched every other competitor passing them by. At that time, only a few manufactures used VVT, DI was advanced tech, 6AT was so good. The engine performance of 2IS350 just blew the competition away.
Now, every car has VVT, DI and 6AT are used in family cars. And, the competitors have been using FI and 8AT for a while. So, the performance of 3IS will be behind those already in the market. What kind of story can you tell your audience? And, It is premium sports sedan.
I dont think that advertising can help much without valid performence figure.
The efficiency used to be in Japanese's hand when the gas was 1 dollar some cents cheap. Gas price isn't cheap as 03-06 any more. However, the efficiency table is turned into German and others. The value of owning a Japanese premium car is evaporating nowadays.
Another issue is the cost cutting. 4GS is suffering from this also. Lack of power folding mirrors, power closing trunk, parking sensors, fog lights......Those are easily to be seen and found by potential buyers. When other competitors offer them, how would you expect the premium car buyers' reaction?
#20
2IS still looks very good today. I will say that 3IS is better looking than 2IS, but not that much. It is somewhat evolutionary better.
In 2005-06, Japanese cars reached their peak. But, then they just halted and watched every other competitor passing them by. At that time, only a few manufactures used VVT, DI was advanced tech, 6AT was so good. The engine performance of 2IS350 just blew the competition away.
Now, every car has VVT, DI and 6AT are used in family cars. And, the competitors have been using FI and 8AT for a while. So, the performance of 3IS will be behind those already in the market. What kind of story can you tell your audience? And, It is premium sports sedan.
I dont think that advertising can help much without valid performence figure.
The efficiency used to be in Japanese's hand when the gas was 1 dollar some cents cheap. Gas price isn't cheap as 03-06 any more. However, the efficiency table is turned into German and others. The value of owning a Japanese premium car is evaporating nowadays.
Another issue is the cost cutting. 4GS is suffering from this also. Lack of power folding mirrors, power closing trunk, parking sensors, fog lights......Those are easily to be seen and found by potential buyers. When other competitors offer them, how would you expect the premium car buyers' reaction?
In 2005-06, Japanese cars reached their peak. But, then they just halted and watched every other competitor passing them by. At that time, only a few manufactures used VVT, DI was advanced tech, 6AT was so good. The engine performance of 2IS350 just blew the competition away.
Now, every car has VVT, DI and 6AT are used in family cars. And, the competitors have been using FI and 8AT for a while. So, the performance of 3IS will be behind those already in the market. What kind of story can you tell your audience? And, It is premium sports sedan.
I dont think that advertising can help much without valid performence figure.
The efficiency used to be in Japanese's hand when the gas was 1 dollar some cents cheap. Gas price isn't cheap as 03-06 any more. However, the efficiency table is turned into German and others. The value of owning a Japanese premium car is evaporating nowadays.
Another issue is the cost cutting. 4GS is suffering from this also. Lack of power folding mirrors, power closing trunk, parking sensors, fog lights......Those are easily to be seen and found by potential buyers. When other competitors offer them, how would you expect the premium car buyers' reaction?
as to the cost cutting, it is more evident in competition than lexus... simply sit into 4GS and then sit in competitors and then talk about cost cutting.
#21
Another issue is the cost cutting. 4GS is suffering from this also. Lack of power folding mirrors, power closing trunk, parking sensors, fog lights......Those are easily to be seen and found by potential buyers. When other competitors offer them, how would you expect the premium car buyers' reaction?
I just shopped all the cars in this segment, and the GS is such a nice car for the money, it never even occured to me that it didn't have power folding mirrors or a power close trunk. If those features are more important to you than the quality, handling, and performance of the car...you should buy a Buick or Lincoln.
If you want to see a Lexus that really suffers from cost cutting, look at the ES. Really significant decontenting in the 2013 ES.
#22
I went to the DC auto show over the weekend. I liked the 3IS but was not blown away by it. They had a 4GS there as well and I liked it but the styling is a little bland and certainly not better than my '08 550i. I really wanted to see the Infiinit Q50 but they did not have it there.
Threre are so many good cars on the road today that it makes one brand hard to stand head and soulders above the rest. I am excited to see the new 2014 Hyundai Genesis. Spy shots look good and if it comes equipped with 5 series features for a 3 series price I may jump into a Korean car. A buddy's friend who went to the car show commented that he liked the Optima the best of all the cars he saw. Times are a changing.
Threre are so many good cars on the road today that it makes one brand hard to stand head and soulders above the rest. I am excited to see the new 2014 Hyundai Genesis. Spy shots look good and if it comes equipped with 5 series features for a 3 series price I may jump into a Korean car. A buddy's friend who went to the car show commented that he liked the Optima the best of all the cars he saw. Times are a changing.
#23
I remember when news came of the 2006 IS and how the forum reacted, the excitement played out in the forums. It was super busy so many posts about how people wanted this car. I remember feeling the excitement.
Now that info about the 2014 IS has been released, car show, official videos, reviews of some having driven it, is there a different feeling from the Lexus community?
I know the economy is different today then it was back in 2006 and I know this design is more drastic than previous model IS but are these the reasons? We have many members here with the previous IS, t thought the board would be much more active.
No poll here I'm interested in hearing from previous IS owners of their thoughts in words.
Now that info about the 2014 IS has been released, car show, official videos, reviews of some having driven it, is there a different feeling from the Lexus community?
I know the economy is different today then it was back in 2006 and I know this design is more drastic than previous model IS but are these the reasons? We have many members here with the previous IS, t thought the board would be much more active.
No poll here I'm interested in hearing from previous IS owners of their thoughts in words.
#24
And, the competitors have been using FI and 8AT for a while. So, the performance of 3IS will be behind those already in the market. What kind of story can you tell your audience?
The efficiency used to be in Japanese's hand when the gas was 1 dollar some cents cheap. Gas price isn't cheap as 03-06 any more. However, the efficiency table is turned into German and others. The value of owning a Japanese premium car is evaporating nowadays.
Another issue is the cost cutting. 4GS is suffering from this also. Lack of power folding mirrors, power closing trunk, parking sensors, fog lights......Those are easily to be seen and found by potential buyers. When other competitors offer them, how would you expect the premium car buyers' reaction?
Regarding FI and 8 speeds, there is no free lunch. The superior fuel efficiency of FI is arguable in real life (not talking just about EPA). The trade-off is turbo-lag, some more so than others, non-progressive throttle response and increased engine complexity : There was a study in UK showing that the more recent German engines, presumably FI have the worst reliability in the market, even worse than some econcars. Thus FI --> more complex moving parts/software---> less reliable mechanicals/electronics. Go to the BMW 5 series forums and see how much complaining there is about the turbo-lag/poor throttle response and ask yourself whether that should be the hallmark of a luxury sports sedan. And that's not even going into the well documented fuel pump failures of the turbo inline 3L BMW engine and the recall issued for the latest M5 due to its potential catastrophic engine failure of the twin turbo V8.
This German superiority in engines is largely hype, some selective media bias and taking EPA figures at face value without also considering the full picture.
FI in the Germans is a product driven not by a desire for a better driver's experience but a bitter pill forced onto them by increasingly strict emissions/fuel efficiency regulations. Everything else they've done since are measures to mitigate the purist-killing experience of FI eg 8 speed, increasingly complex engine parts/software to reduce throttlle lag( with concomitant hit on reliability) or are publicity measures to spin FI as a good thing for keen enthusiast drivers.
The sad thing is that the poorer German reliability used to be justifiably outweighed by the sublime driving experience of German sedans especially BMW. Not any more : Catch any past/present BMW E39 or E60 5 series driver now and ask them whether the current F10 5 series measures up in any way shape or form as a driver's car to the previous generation 5 series. Similarly for past 3 series drivers and the current F30 3 series.
Last edited by natnut; 02-12-13 at 10:25 AM.
#25
Your misconceptions regarding the 4GS has been addressed by SW10ES already.
Regarding FI and 8 speeds, there is no free lunch. The superior fuel efficiency of FI is arguable in real life (not talking just about EPA). The trade-off is turbo-lag, some more so than others, non-progressive throttle response and increased engine complexity : There was a study in UK showing that the more recent German engines, presumably FI have the worst reliability in the market, even worse than some econcars. Thus FI --> more complex moving parts/software---> less reliable mechanicals/electronics. Go to the BMW 5 series forums and see how much complaining there is about the turbo-lag/poor throttle response and ask yourself whether that should be the hallmark of a luxury sports sedan. And that's not even going into the well documented fuel pump failures of the turbo inline 3L BMW engine and the recall issued for the latest M5 due to its potential catastrophic engine failure of the twin turbo V8.
This German superiority in engines is largely hype, some selective media bias and taking EPA figures at face value without also considering the full picture.
FI in the Germans is a product driven not by a desire for a better driver's experience but a bitter pill forced onto them by increasingly strict emissions/fuel efficiency regulations. Everything else they've done since are measures to mitigate the purist-killing experience of FI eg 8 speed, increasingly complex engine parts/software to reduce throttlle lag( with concomitant hit on reliability) or are publicity measures to spin FI as a good thing for keen enthusiast drivers.
The sad thing is that the poorer German reliability used to be justifiably outweighed by the sublime driving experience of German sedans especially BMW. Not any more : Catch any past/present BMW E39 or E60 5 series driver now and ask them whether the current F10 5 series measures up in any way shape or form as a driver's car to the previous generation 5 series. Similarly for past 3 series drivers and the current F30 3 series.
Regarding FI and 8 speeds, there is no free lunch. The superior fuel efficiency of FI is arguable in real life (not talking just about EPA). The trade-off is turbo-lag, some more so than others, non-progressive throttle response and increased engine complexity : There was a study in UK showing that the more recent German engines, presumably FI have the worst reliability in the market, even worse than some econcars. Thus FI --> more complex moving parts/software---> less reliable mechanicals/electronics. Go to the BMW 5 series forums and see how much complaining there is about the turbo-lag/poor throttle response and ask yourself whether that should be the hallmark of a luxury sports sedan. And that's not even going into the well documented fuel pump failures of the turbo inline 3L BMW engine and the recall issued for the latest M5 due to its potential catastrophic engine failure of the twin turbo V8.
This German superiority in engines is largely hype, some selective media bias and taking EPA figures at face value without also considering the full picture.
FI in the Germans is a product driven not by a desire for a better driver's experience but a bitter pill forced onto them by increasingly strict emissions/fuel efficiency regulations. Everything else they've done since are measures to mitigate the purist-killing experience of FI eg 8 speed, increasingly complex engine parts/software to reduce throttlle lag( with concomitant hit on reliability) or are publicity measures to spin FI as a good thing for keen enthusiast drivers.
The sad thing is that the poorer German reliability used to be justifiably outweighed by the sublime driving experience of German sedans especially BMW. Not any more : Catch any past/present BMW E39 or E60 5 series driver now and ask them whether the current F10 5 series measures up in any way shape or form as a driver's car to the previous generation 5 series. Similarly for past 3 series drivers and the current F30 3 series.
#26
If you have any experience with the 4GS, its not fair to say that the 4GS "suffers" from cost cutting. True, you may not have power folding mirrors, a power closing trunk, it does have a full suite of parking sensors not sure where that comes from, or fog lights on the F-Sport (I doubt thats cost cutting since the foglights are there on every other GS), but the 4GS is such a huge step forward from the 3GS its not even funny. The upgrades in interior quality alone are incredible, and when you factor in the new technology and features the car does have, plus the handling and performance that is beating BMW in reviews for the first time ever, its not a vehicle that "suffers" from anything.
I just shopped all the cars in this segment, and the GS is such a nice car for the money, it never even occured to me that it didn't have power folding mirrors or a power close trunk. If those features are more important to you than the quality, handling, and performance of the car...you should buy a Buick or Lincoln.
If you want to see a Lexus that really suffers from cost cutting, look at the ES. Really significant decontenting in the 2013 ES.
I just shopped all the cars in this segment, and the GS is such a nice car for the money, it never even occured to me that it didn't have power folding mirrors or a power close trunk. If those features are more important to you than the quality, handling, and performance of the car...you should buy a Buick or Lincoln.
If you want to see a Lexus that really suffers from cost cutting, look at the ES. Really significant decontenting in the 2013 ES.
However, I dont think that they deliver the whole package. The GS FSports which I looked at didn't have any of those 4 features I metioned earlier. That is why I said they cost-cutting on the features. Maybe your car is special-ordered? Interior quality is very good overall, some bits can still get improved tho.
Probably because the 4GS is the 1st of these new bunch, things seem to get finished in a rush.The spindal grille and headlights could be better, the lines of exterior and Interior could flow better. And, they forgot to design the meters, and forgot to change the tranny.
Sorry, I dont think that the 4GS is intent to compete with Buick or Lincoln.
We all like the LEXUS, and hope it can have better designs. That is the reason why I am here.
But, just open the door, look at the competition up there.
#27
Probably because the 4GS is the 1st of these new bunch, things seem to get finished in a rush.The spindal grille and headlights could be better, the lines of exterior and Interior could flow better. And, they forgot to design the meters, and forgot to change the tranny.
Sorry, I dont think that the 4GS is intent to compete with Buick or Lincoln.
We all like the LEXUS, and hope it can have better designs. That is the reason why I am here.
But, just open the door, look at the competition up there.
Sorry, I dont think that the 4GS is intent to compete with Buick or Lincoln.
We all like the LEXUS, and hope it can have better designs. That is the reason why I am here.
But, just open the door, look at the competition up there.
Only car that has really nice meters is new IS or maybe those all-lcd ones that higher classes do.
It is easy to pick few things that you dont like, but all things considered, looking at 4GS matterials and build quality, everyone else is cost cutting.
#28
uh, thats your opinion, right? As to the meters... BMW/MB/Audi have nothing different, do they compete with Buick too?
Only car that has really nice meters is new IS or maybe those all-lcd ones that higher classes do.
It is easy to pick few things that you dont like, but all things considered, looking at 4GS matterials and build quality, everyone else is cost cutting.
Only car that has really nice meters is new IS or maybe those all-lcd ones that higher classes do.
It is easy to pick few things that you dont like, but all things considered, looking at 4GS matterials and build quality, everyone else is cost cutting.
Each gen of GS/IS has its own meters, they didn't just take those leftover in the storage room.
#29
Seeing that the IS is the same way, I think they are intentionally leaving the foglights off the F Sports in the US for some other reason, which I and obviously you don't understand.
Maybe your car is special-ordered? Interior quality is very good overall, some bits can still get improved tho.
Sorry, I dont think that the 4GS is intent to compete with Buick or Lincoln.
Obviously we'd all like those features, but if those were the features I had to give up to get the improvement over the 3GS that the 4GS is...I'm 110% okay with that.
I'd rather have the 18 way luxury seats than power folding mirrors. Life is all about compromise.
Interior could flow better
And, they forgot to design the meters,
But, just open the door, look at the competition up there.
The exterior of the 4GS has grown on me tremendously, I think the A6 and 5 series are still better looking cars overall, but the GS is a great looking car.
Last edited by SW17LS; 02-13-13 at 07:20 AM.
#30
Please stop accusing other posters of being shills for Lexus just because they don't agree with you that German cars are perfect and incomparable.
FACT : New Lexus GS has been praised in multiple reviews of having best-in-class interior. That's not an opinion. If there's cost cutting, Lexus sure did a good job of hiding it or else the Germans are in more trouble than they know.
FACT : current gen 3.5L Normal Aspirated Lexus 2GR-FSE engine may be down on torque and 2 gears compared to the FI 3L variants from BMW and Audi but smoothness and immediateness of the throttle response of the 3.5L mill is superior to the BMW and reliability and maintenance issues is far less than either FI German engine. 0-60,0-100 of the GS350 is better than the 535i and E350, losing only to the A6 3.0T.