The 2.5L V6's days are numbered
05-29-13, 02:34 PM
#76
Lexus Test Driver
After reading all this here, I'm reminded of how Audi led the 2.0T path in 2005 with the introduction of theirs in the A4. And we had Mercedes with their smaller "Kompressor" in the C-Class. Soon came BMW, and now finally Lexus 10+ years later. At least one advantage to always being late to the party is ensured reliability, after everyone else is done being guinea pigs.
05-29-13, 02:54 PM
#77
After reading all this here, I'm reminded of how Audi led the 2.0T path in 2005 with the introduction of theirs in the A4. And we had Mercedes with their smaller "Kompressor" in the C-Class. Soon came BMW, and now finally Lexus 10+ years later. At least one advantage to always being late to the party is ensured reliability, after everyone else is done being guinea pigs.
... now mpg is much more important than then.
05-30-13, 06:24 AM
#78
Glad to see that the 2.5L is going the way of the Doo Doo bird. It's way underpowered and by today's standards, it gets fairly poor mpg compared to other 4 cyclinder engines that also produced way more power and get way better mpg.
I'm still really surprised that Toyota still hasn't gotten on the turbo wagon considering that they've done it before and everybody else is putting turbos in their cars to not only get way more power but still getting very good mpg.
Some cars work well and sell well when you add a hybid system to their available options such as a Camry because of the demographics. Other cars don't. People buying an IS don't necessarily care too much about mpg whereas performance is one of the primary drivers of the purchase. The IS would be a prime candidate for a turbo engine.
Considering how Toyota wants the IS to be a legitimate competitor to the 3 series, C class, A4, ATS, and G37 (or whatever it's called now), it really needs to get up to speed with their engine offerings. Updating a car to a new generation but keeping an engine that's over 6 years old in the car is no bueno.
I'm still really surprised that Toyota still hasn't gotten on the turbo wagon considering that they've done it before and everybody else is putting turbos in their cars to not only get way more power but still getting very good mpg.
Some cars work well and sell well when you add a hybid system to their available options such as a Camry because of the demographics. Other cars don't. People buying an IS don't necessarily care too much about mpg whereas performance is one of the primary drivers of the purchase. The IS would be a prime candidate for a turbo engine.
Considering how Toyota wants the IS to be a legitimate competitor to the 3 series, C class, A4, ATS, and G37 (or whatever it's called now), it really needs to get up to speed with their engine offerings. Updating a car to a new generation but keeping an engine that's over 6 years old in the car is no bueno.
) 
05-30-13, 04:29 PM
#81
Pole Position
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After reading all this here, I'm reminded of how Audi led the 2.0T path in 2005 with the introduction of theirs in the A4. And we had Mercedes with their smaller "Kompressor" in the C-Class. Soon came BMW, and now finally Lexus 10+ years later. At least one advantage to always being late to the party is ensured reliability, after everyone else is done being guinea pigs.
The real reason for those small turboengines by german brands has always been taxes, and has really nothing to do with "downsizing" or that they predicted the future in some way. It was more like an necessary evil to be able to sell their cars in some countries.
05-30-13, 05:10 PM
#82
05-31-13, 09:51 PM
#83
Driver School Candidate
We dont 'know' anything for sure, but it appears that at least two people that posted earlier in the thread have little birdies that tell them things.
Based on the known develpment of the 2.0t by Lexus/Toyota, based on the increasing mpg standards, and based on other auto manufacturer trends like the BMW 3 series with 4cy turbo, I bet that it is highly likely that this 2.0t or a retuned version of it make it into the new IS at some point.
Based on the known develpment of the 2.0t by Lexus/Toyota, based on the increasing mpg standards, and based on other auto manufacturer trends like the BMW 3 series with 4cy turbo, I bet that it is highly likely that this 2.0t or a retuned version of it make it into the new IS at some point.
because Lexus had trademarked things like NX200t, which is next generation Lexus small ute.
They went with 2.0l to get tax incentives in countries like China.
Considering that in China they have 4cly ES250 and RX270, I bet this engine will end up in many Lexus vehicles, maybe with exception for LS.
They went with 2.0l to get tax incentives in countries like China.
Considering that in China they have 4cly ES250 and RX270, I bet this engine will end up in many Lexus vehicles, maybe with exception for LS.
05-31-13, 09:55 PM
#84
Driver School Candidate
By the way, for those ripping 4 cy engines, or for those worried that it wont be quick or smooth, go drive a new BMW 328i with the 2.0t 4cy. BMW lists the HP at 240 (5000-6000 rpm) and Tq at 255 (1250-4800). The BMW listed 0-60 time is 5.8 seconds, but that is generally conservative, for example they list the 335i time at 5.1. Lexus lists the IS350 at 5.6 and the IS250 at 7.9 for RWD models. So the BMW 4 cy turbo is only 0.2 seconds slower 0-60 than the IS350! And it has an 8 speed auto that is pretty decent. The combo is a quiet ride unless you really get on it. (MPG is 23/33)
Knowing Lexus they will likely produce less HP than the BMW but will produce a more reliable engine with good fuel economy, hopefully with a good 8 speed tranny. I think its worth holding out for. Given that HP isnt near the top of my list anymore, I would highly consider a IS200t next year if I dont upgrade to an RX or something like that before then.
Knowing Lexus they will likely produce less HP than the BMW but will produce a more reliable engine with good fuel economy, hopefully with a good 8 speed tranny. I think its worth holding out for. Given that HP isnt near the top of my list anymore, I would highly consider a IS200t next year if I dont upgrade to an RX or something like that before then.
06-08-13, 03:33 PM
#85
The way I see it, I'd like to see Lexus with a big range of engines - to suit all tastes - to keep everyone happy.
I will cost more; yes.
Audi seems to manage it okay.
Have a range of traditional naturally aspirated engines in 2.5, 3.0 and 3.5 V6; esp marketed in countries where gasoline is relatively cheaper.
A range of small capacity turbos, especially marketed in continents where gasoline is more expensive, like Europe.
A range of small capacity turbo hybrids, esp in continents that place a priority on gasoline, low emissions, and high city driving.
The important point to understand is that each of these different types of engines have different advantages and disadvantages.
The traditional atmospheric is great, but not as fuel efficient, nor as powerful.
The small capacity turbos will always have that turbo lag, however small, and never as instant and flat a torque curve as an atmospheric engine.
The gasoline-electric hybrid will always be some 100 kg or 225 pounds heavier, than the typical 1500 kg or 3300 pound luxury vehicles.
While the average mass public can't consciously tell the difference in additional weight and handling, most enthusiasts can notice the hybrid's penalty in weight and handling.
Everyone should be able to notice the smaller boot capacity, but the hybrid does have great city stop start mileage, and very low emissions levels.
Thus, horses for courses.
Have a full range of choices like Audi, and keep as many people as happy as possible.
I wouldn't axe the 2.5 V6 till gasoline becomes ridiculously expensive...
I will cost more; yes.
Audi seems to manage it okay.
Have a range of traditional naturally aspirated engines in 2.5, 3.0 and 3.5 V6; esp marketed in countries where gasoline is relatively cheaper.
A range of small capacity turbos, especially marketed in continents where gasoline is more expensive, like Europe.
A range of small capacity turbo hybrids, esp in continents that place a priority on gasoline, low emissions, and high city driving.
The important point to understand is that each of these different types of engines have different advantages and disadvantages.
The traditional atmospheric is great, but not as fuel efficient, nor as powerful.
The small capacity turbos will always have that turbo lag, however small, and never as instant and flat a torque curve as an atmospheric engine.
The gasoline-electric hybrid will always be some 100 kg or 225 pounds heavier, than the typical 1500 kg or 3300 pound luxury vehicles.
While the average mass public can't consciously tell the difference in additional weight and handling, most enthusiasts can notice the hybrid's penalty in weight and handling.
Everyone should be able to notice the smaller boot capacity, but the hybrid does have great city stop start mileage, and very low emissions levels.
Thus, horses for courses.
Have a full range of choices like Audi, and keep as many people as happy as possible.
I wouldn't axe the 2.5 V6 till gasoline becomes ridiculously expensive...
06-08-13, 10:17 PM
#87
Lexus Test Driver
The way I see it, I'd like to see Lexus with a big range of engines - to suit all tastes - to keep everyone happy.
I will cost more; yes.
Audi seems to manage it okay.
Have a range of traditional naturally aspirated engines in 2.5, 3.0 and 3.5 V6; esp marketed in countries where gasoline is relatively cheaper.
A range of small capacity turbos, especially marketed in continents where gasoline is more expensive, like Europe.
A range of small capacity turbo hybrids, esp in continents that place a priority on gasoline, low emissions, and high city driving.
The important point to understand is that each of these different types of engines have different advantages and disadvantages.
The traditional atmospheric is great, but not as fuel efficient, nor as powerful.
The small capacity turbos will always have that turbo lag, however small, and never as instant and flat a torque curve as an atmospheric engine.
The gasoline-electric hybrid will always be some 100 kg or 225 pounds heavier, than the typical 1500 kg or 3300 pound luxury vehicles.
While the average mass public can't consciously tell the difference in additional weight and handling, most enthusiasts can notice the hybrid's penalty in weight and handling.
Everyone should be able to notice the smaller boot capacity, but the hybrid does have great city stop start mileage, and very low emissions levels.
Thus, horses for courses.
Have a full range of choices like Audi, and keep as many people as happy as possible.
I wouldn't axe the 2.5 V6 till gasoline becomes ridiculously expensive...
I will cost more; yes.
Audi seems to manage it okay.
Have a range of traditional naturally aspirated engines in 2.5, 3.0 and 3.5 V6; esp marketed in countries where gasoline is relatively cheaper.
A range of small capacity turbos, especially marketed in continents where gasoline is more expensive, like Europe.
A range of small capacity turbo hybrids, esp in continents that place a priority on gasoline, low emissions, and high city driving.
The important point to understand is that each of these different types of engines have different advantages and disadvantages.
The traditional atmospheric is great, but not as fuel efficient, nor as powerful.
The small capacity turbos will always have that turbo lag, however small, and never as instant and flat a torque curve as an atmospheric engine.
The gasoline-electric hybrid will always be some 100 kg or 225 pounds heavier, than the typical 1500 kg or 3300 pound luxury vehicles.
While the average mass public can't consciously tell the difference in additional weight and handling, most enthusiasts can notice the hybrid's penalty in weight and handling.
Everyone should be able to notice the smaller boot capacity, but the hybrid does have great city stop start mileage, and very low emissions levels.
Thus, horses for courses.
Have a full range of choices like Audi, and keep as many people as happy as possible.
I wouldn't axe the 2.5 V6 till gasoline becomes ridiculously expensive...
As far as using Audi as an example, they used to be more encompassing, but have recently cheapened out too with engine choices. The current A4 debuted with three motors. After one model year, they dumped the middle one. Now it's either all or little. At least the "little" motor is a good one.
06-08-13, 11:37 PM
#88
I digress: if Lexus were to sell the new IS250 with this 4cyl turbo putting out at least 250 horsepower and return a 6-speed manual and LSD to the option sheet they'd have my attention. That would be in line with Cadillac's ATS 2.0T 6-speed LSD model. The IS350 can remain the big horsepower V6 car while the IS-F can... well... return to the showroom.
I'd love to see Lexus start using turbos. They've only been offering turbo luxury cars for years in Japan. I'd wish for a new overbuilt inline-six too but I'll settle for some more interesting luxury/sporty Lexus vehicles using forced induction regardless of the cylinder count or cylinder layout.
06-09-13, 05:57 PM
#89
The pursuit of F
My only concern with the a 2L turbo four is if it will be as smooth and silky sounding as the 2.5L V6 which yes is underpowered, but a gem of a an engine.
