peteharvey

Of course IS sales fell from 2007-12 period as the model ages.
However 3 Series F30 sales have not been able to attain similar peaks to old E90 at the same stage in its model cycle.

In the 2007 to 2012 period across America, customers moved to the competition, eg Mercedes C Class from 63,701 in 2007 to 81,697 in 2012.
Similarly, over the same period across America, the Audi A4/A5 Series increased from 46,036 to 58,915.
Likewise, new entrant Cadillac ATS has gone from zero to 7,008 over the same period...

dsadsauser

Thank heavens you are not an economist. Perhaps is has something to do with the Great Recession that really hit hard in 2008 that caused nearly every auto maker in the industry to have significant declines in sales? Maybe?

peteharvey

I forgot to mention also that the Cadillac ATS which debut in 2012 with 7,008 units across America, has now amassed 19,183 units year to date - with an anticipated finish for 2013 full year sales of 38,366 units.

So now you know why E40 peaked at 142,490 units across America in 2007, was only 99,602 last year, and the first 6 months of 2013 saw 3 Series sales at just 49,162, giving roughly 98,324 units for 2013.

Nevermind the fall in sales.
Sales is not everything.
Neither is straight line performance.
Nor performance around corners and bends.

You'll never be able to coerce someone into liking turbos, with a lag and boom phase.
Nor can you force anyone to like diesels with their bottom end torque and limited top ends.
Nor can you force someone to like hybrids with their bottom end torque, and extra weight.
Nor can you force someone to like V8's with their torque, power, and the extra weight over the front axle.

Point is, none of these cars are perfect.
Each has its strengths and weaknesses.
It is up to the individual to decide what their priorities are, and which model is most suited to their tastes.
Enjoy...

dsadsauser

The 335i sure did a hell of a job coercing me into liking a turbo car. Quite easily I might add. OP too from the sound of it.

Stillhart

The only turbo car I'd driven before was my mom's first gen WRX (which I've driven quite a lot over the last ten years). It was a lot of fun once you got moving but the turbo lag down low was kinda brutal. If you were just driving around town or in traffic, you really felt almost none of the benefit.

The twin turbo on the 335 doesn't feel like that at all. It just feels really strong throughout the range. I saw someone complaining about the turbo lag on it and I'm kinda scratching my head about that. Compared to the WRX, this thing has basically no lag at all.

A strong NA 6 engine with a lot of power definitely feels different than a small turbo 4. Better in a lot of ways, thanks to the nice torque curve. I can see how you'd say that you can't convince someone that the turbo 4 is better. But comparing the NA 6 to a twin turbo 6 is no comparison IMO. Assuming Lexus's numbers for HP and torque are correct, BMW's numbers are WAY underrated, according to my butt dyno.

My $0.02 after driving both cars.

Stillhart

Okay, by popular request, I managed to get another test drive today. This time I drove the IS350 F-Sport, followed by the 335i M-Sport.

This time, I tried paying more attention to the power delivery and I realized a couple things. The first is that the power comes on at about 4500 rpm and then it just launches to redline. You need to rev the snot out of this thing to get the power! I found that in automatic mode, it just didn't want to do that, even in Sport+. When I swapped into manual and started holding the gears longer, the engine felt a lot more lively.

The other thing I did was get it to some more curvy roads. There were some tighter turns and some longer sweepers, nothing special, but enough to get a better feel for the handling. The car felt super composed and drama free mid-corner. Small steering adjustments were picked up on right away and it felt very immediate with no body roll at all. In fact, I felt like I needed to be extra smooth, not because the body roll made it feel unsafe, but because it was so immediate that it just felt jerky if I wasn't smooth. I admit, it was fun, especially since I was in manual and going about 85 in a 35. >.>

After that, I headed over to the Bimmer dealer to see if I could try a car with the dynamic handling Pacakge. They didn't have any on the lot, but I drove an M-sport with the M-sport suspension, etc.

Again, I noticed that the engine just had insane torque at almost any rpm. It felt immediate and strong. Also, the car felt amazingly smooth and composed at any speed. I found myself going nearly triple digits on the highway without realizing it because it felt like I was just putting along gently.

I took it to the same stretch of curvy roads and realized something interesting. The car did feel noticeably worse than the IS in the corners. I could feel the the body roll during mid-corner adjustments...the thing felt heavy. It never felt unsafe per se, but I felt like I needed to be smooth for all the wrong reasons. The power delivery was so punchy that, combined with the heavy feeling, I felt like I couldn't really give it everything with the same amount of confidence as the IS. That being said, I did break the back end out on a sharp corner and it was super controllable with no drama. I just hate that feeling of body roll mid-corner.

The straight line power is still intoxicating and still blows the IS out of the water, but the IS is more fun to drive in the twisties. Throwing it into manual and revving the snot out of it with complete confidence... that's fun!

My decision just got a little harder again.

replicator

I'm looking to buy a new car right now and in the same boat. I test drove the IS350 today (they didn't have the F-Sport on the floor to test today). I didn't get a chance to drive the 335i as it was too late this afternoon but will do so later this week. I have driven the new 328i for a week as a rental for work, and wasn't all that impressed. It was a real bore to drive, didn't feel very sporty to me at all.

I do agree that the interior is better than the F30, and it feels more solid on the road. I will first test drive the 335i so I have no regrets. I was almost ready to put in an order as the sales guy said the wait would be a month or two wait - hope that isn't the case..

lexuslivin

For the past couple years I've been driving an 06 IS250:
1. Great looking car
2. Super reliable
3. Handling is ok, acceleration a bit slow
4. Interior great.

A week ago I rented a 2013 BMW 328i for 3 days:
1. Interior ok (better than previous generations but not as nice as Lexus)
2. Likely not as reliable as a Lexus.
3. Handling, acceleration, performance all much superior to my 06 IS250.

Then right after I returned the 2013 BMW 328i, I went to the Lexus dealership and test drove a 2014 IS250:
1. Interior nice
2. Likely reliable like a Lexus
3. Handling not as precise as BMW
4. Acceleration and performance lacking. Can't compare with 328i.

Overall, I was very impressed by the 2013 BMW 328i. I thought it was a much better driver's car than the 2014 Lexus IS250. But the IS250 is cheaper, more reliable, and has a better interior. And I didn't test drive a IS350 which would likely go better head-to-head with the 328i.

Overall, I'm passing on the 2013 BMW 328i and the 2014 IS250/IS350. I'm going to test drive the i3 when it comes out.

But I keep on thinking, maybe I should get a Tesla Model S.

Stillhart

Did you drive the F-sport? The handling is significantly better than the base.

Also, if I had the money, I'd get a Tesla in a second.

lexuslivin

No, it wasn't an F-Sport. Just a base IS250 w/navi, premium. Maybe I would have liked the F-Sport better.

A few other things about the 2014 IS250:
1. It didn't feel like a huge upgrade from my current 06 IS250. Acceleration felt the same. Handling was similar, maybe a tad better. Hard to justify the upgrade cost for me.
2. I actually prefer the touchscreen of the 2nd gen IS. The dash of the 3rd gen just seems more busy, and the screen is so far away. I think they made things more complicated, when they should have just made the touchscreen bigger.
3. I think the extra leg room in the back is nice, folding rear seats as well. But I don't really need them.

I think a BMW 335i would be a big upgrade for me. But if I'm going to spend that kind of money, I'm thinking maybe i should spend some more and get the car I really want... the Tesla Model S. But not sure I want to be spending $80k+ on a car.

natnut

2 words :

range anxiety

I'm not spending US $80K to INCREASE my stress levels while I drive.

Not unless I plan to use it as an expensive weekend toy.

pinipig523

Why are you comparing a car that is $80K to cars that are in the 40-50s??

That doesn't make sense.

Seems like you have a lot of money to blow - get the Tesla.

yowps3

I'm tired of the IS350 being 'not fast'

Unless the 3IS with 8-gears is slower than the 2IS or the new 335i is much, much faster than the previous 335i which i doubt.



They even compared the ES350 & 335i at 'high altitude' in which the 335i has a massive advantage in that situation, and really, it wasn't much faster than the ES350 ! (At high altitude)

yowps3

And why does everyone compare the IS250 to the 328i?

Doesn't BMW have a 320i ????

natnut

Base IS = IS250
Base 3 series = 320i

midrange 3 series = 328i
midrange IS = TBA

Top of the range 3 series = 335i
Top of the range IS = IS350